Who made Who in 2020? Allen vs Diggs

[NewEra]

I don’t think either of them “made” the other one.  That said, qB > WR.  The end.

 

regarding Lamar, I don’t think he’s nearly as good of a passer as Josh.  Different realms.   That doesn’t mean that Diggs wouldn’t have a HUGE impact on Lamar as a QB.  Diggs is that dude and if he were on the ravens for several years, I think Lamar might win another MVP and possibly a SB.  Adding Bateman, Tylan Wallace and Sammy will help Lamar, but I don’t think they’ll get Lamar into qb17 territory ever again

[billsfan89]

Mutually beneficial, Diggs set the table for Josh but Josh also is by far the best QB to be throwing him the ball.

[Matt_In_NH]

For me this is clear, Josh Allen took major steps forward last year.  If Diggs was not there that still would have been evident.  Diggs magnified his development no doubt about that but Diggs would have put up previous Diggs type numbers if he stayed in Minn.  Allen magnified Diggs output just as much as Diggs magnified what Allen did.  If Allen has not improved immensely it would not have worked just because they gave him a talented WR.  

[HappyDays]

Allen and Diggs is a perfect marriage. Diggs excels at getting open on intermediate routes, especially outside the hashes. Allen is arguably the best passer in the NFL on intermediate routes outside the hashes. I don't think Diggs and Jackson would be a particularly good fit.

[PolishPrince]

 

15 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Same thing here.  Look at that jump with Allen throwing Diggs the ball.  He surpassed his best season in yardage by over 400 yards with Allen, and had finished no higher than 17th in receiving yards before playing with Josh Allen.   

 

People also seem to forget that Beasley had a career year last year with Allen throwing him the ball.  After nine seasons in the League, Beasley set career highs in completions and receiving yards.  Maybe it was Diggs throwing Beasley the ball.

 

I've yet to hear one pundit say that Stefon Diggs and Cole Beasley were the beneficiaries of the best quarterback play of their careers.  It's always the other way around, Diggs and Beasley made Allen.  It's a lazy opinion.  After a combined 15 years in the League, both Diggs and Beasley had career years in 2020.  Did Diggs and Beasley help Allen?  Absolutely.  But not as much as Josh Allen helped them. 

 

 

John Brown also had a career year with Allen...

 

Technically so did Zay Jones.

 

In fact I think every "featured" WR that has played with Allen has had their career year with him... outside of Biscuits Benjamin but thats a different story 

Edited July 26, 2021 by PolishPrince
Bunch of copies in post

[YattaOkasan]

Good topic @Inigo Montoya  Bruce Nolan discussed this a week or two ago. Basically it boiled down to that since josh Allen had such a historical leap that diggs would have to be the best all time receiver to be the cause. He’s not so diggs didn’t make Allen. This argument loses sight of how historic of a jump was. Wanna say it’s flukey? Sure. Wanna say it’s cause of one WR? No way. 

[Sugar High JA17]

Awesome read! Thanks for that. Main reason i finally signed up for this site after reading over for 10+ years. Very Cool!

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, eball said:

 

We are so friggin’ lucky Josh wound up a Bill.  Can you imagine Allen on the Ravens?  They’d be favorites to win the next 10 Super Bowls.

Mayfield & Jackson will never strike fear in me. And when Kelce and Hill slow down the conference will be ours.

[ColoradoBills]

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Aristotle

[Putin]

Im looking for the Lets go get Chandler Jones thread 👀

[Mikie2times]

Randy Moss is a good example of a WR that made QB's. We also saw what that looked like when he was partnered with Brady. So you can get sort of a back and forth in these types of comparisons. Was Moss great before Brady? Sure. Was he better with him? Unquestionably. The same can be said for both Allen and Diggs. Neither need each other to be good/great NFL players. Partner them together and it's something special. It also shouldn't be discounted that they have great chemistry and truly seem to enjoy playing together. I would imagine they would laugh at this thread where a lot of other combos over the years, at least internally, think they have an answer to the question. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by KzooMike

[billybrew1]

While Allen vs. Diggs is definitely a chicken and egg question, the obvious answer is who cares?!

We have both and for a long damn time.

It clearly isn't just Diggs as Brown was awesome last year, Beasley two years and Davis one. And Sanders is going to rip it up as our #2 this year.  The four of them (Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis) are going to be electric with JA leading them behind our OL this year! Watch out for the Bills, baby! If we get Ertz we'd have a fifth weapon. Without Ertz, maybe Knox maturesthis year? Maybe other Bills step up more? I'm sure Daboll will makeHodgins a Star If Hodgins has the talent, Daboll will find a way to make him shine and put less wear and tear on the top four. We have to get to the playoffs with that top four! I think we even might be able to beat the chefs but our defense will have had to improve some from last year's playoff performance as well. It could happen with Star, Boogie and Groot added plus AJ hitting year two. But the chefs are good, man. We'll see in week five if McD has a plan or not. (He seemed to have no idea of how to play the chefs in our last two or three meetings. But with more skill comes more confidence..... I think McD has to stop idolizing the chefs coach tottart.

 

Go Bills!

[billybrew1]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Mayfield & Jackson will never strike fear in me. And when Kelce and Hill slow down the conference will be ours.

The Bills need to do three things: first we have to start Billieving we can beat the chefs. To me, it appears McD thinks he is not good enough. Number two we have to out-maneuver the chefs on the managerial front. Diggs, Sanders And Beasley  are going to get old too; whichever team replaces their talent better should win. And three we have to catch up to the chefs. They are a slightly better team than we are now. We are very close though.... Imho, we are one Chris Jones away from the chefs. Give us Chris Jone and take him away from the Chefs and we should beat them, imho. Although we also need to overcome issue #1 in advance of that game. While Chris Jones is only one player he is a good one. And to have him go from the chefs to the Bills isreally like two players have been changed. But that is the difference between the two teams, imho.

Now, that isn't to say we couldn't beat them this year. If Chris Jones gets hurt and Groot is as good as he looked at Miami two years ago were even that fast. Football is a lot more complicated than that but I do think we could beat them. Do I think it is going to happen in week five? No, probably not, but let's play the game anyway cause you know, that ball bounces weird and stuff. The Bills lost to the giants about 30 years ago and that one should have never happened but did so you have to play the game.

[Protocal69]

I've spent basically the entire offseason arguing the Josh Allen vs Lamar Jackson / Diggs made Josh Allen debate under my tag Mastenpark. Im tired of arguing it. I will just give you one stat about the one weapon that played with both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen ( John Brown) The year John Brown played with Lamar, Brown in 9 games had a TOTAL of 9 catches and 126 yards receiving. John Brown 1st year with Josh Allen was a 1000 yard receiver and Josh Allen was nowhere the passer then then he is now.

 

If Diggs played for the Ravens he would be begging to leave the same way he did in Minn. Until the Ravens trust Lamar to pass the ball more than 2.6 times for every one run then I cannot take Lamar being a better QB seriously. That is why Lamar is considered a run 1st QB. To make my point there is another QB that is almost as fast as Lamar and almost as mobile but they still don't consider him a run 1st QB and that is Kyler Murray. In 2020 Murray had over 800 yards rushing but guess what he had over 4,000 yards passing so I dont want to hear you cant do both.

 

Ravens drafted ANOTHER 1st round offensive weapon. That makes 3 ( Hollywood, Hurst, Bateman) since he has been in the league. If Lamar passing numbers go up Lamar will get all the credit. If they dont the WR's will get all the blame. I call that the Lebron Effect.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Protocal69

[Don Otreply]

It went both ways with the edge going to Allen, 

what finally happened with our receivers is that they now pay enough attention to come back to their QB when the route they are running isn’t working, and now they actually try to make a play on the ball when their number is called  this is stuff that rarely happened when ZJ and Co were our receivers, that and the guys we have now aren’t afraid to catch a pass in traffic, and last but not least our current guys can catch a pass with regularity, unlike a few short years ago… 

 

Go Bills!!!

[John from Riverside]

The easy answer is to say that they made each other the fact of the matter is Josh Allen has Improved every wide receivers numbers that come here with the exception of Kelvin Benjamin

[YattaOkasan]

10 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

I've spent basically the entire offseason arguing the Josh Allen vs Lamar Jackson / Diggs made Josh Allen debate under my tag Mastenpark. Im tired of arguing it. I will just give you one stat about the one weapon that played with both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen ( John Brown) The year John Brown played with Lamar, Brown in 9 games had a TOTAL of 9 catches and 126 yards receiving. John Brown 1st year with Josh Allen was a 1000 yard receiver and Josh Allen was nowhere the passer then then he is now.

 

If Diggs played for the Ravens he would be begging to leave the same way he did in Minn. Until the Ravens trust Lamar to pass the ball more than 2.6 times for every one run then I cannot take Lamar being a better QB seriously. That is why Lamar is considered a run 1st QB. To make my point there is another QB that is almost as fast as Lamar and almost as mobile but they still don't consider him a run 1st QB and that is Kyler Murray. In 2020 Murray had over 800 yards rushing but guess what he had over 4,000 yards passing so I dont want to hear you cant do both.

 

Ravens drafted ANOTHER 1st round offensive weapon. That makes 3 ( Hollywood, Hurst, Bateman) since he has been in the league. If Lamar passing numbers go up Lamar will get all the credit. If they dont the WR's will get all the blame. I call that the Lebron Effect.

 

 

I think you can add what I said above.  If Diggs made Allen then Diggs has to be the best WR ever cause noone has made a jump like Allen.  Thats effectively what they are arguing.  

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

I've spent basically the entire offseason arguing the Josh Allen vs Lamar Jackson / Diggs made Josh Allen debate under my tag Mastenpark. Im tired of arguing it. I will just give you one stat about the one weapon that played with both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen ( John Brown) The year John Brown played with Lamar, Brown in 9 games had a TOTAL of 9 catches and 126 yards receiving. John Brown 1st year with Josh Allen was a 1000 yard receiver and Josh Allen was nowhere the passer then then he is now.

 

If Diggs played for the Ravens he would be begging to leave the same way he did in Minn. Until the Ravens trust Lamar to pass the ball more than 2.6 times for every one run then I cannot take Lamar being a better QB seriously. That is why Lamar is considered a run 1st QB. To make my point there is another QB that is almost as fast as Lamar and almost as mobile but they still don't consider him a run 1st QB and that is Kyler Murray. In 2020 Murray had over 800 yards rushing but guess what he had over 4,000 yards passing so I dont want to hear you cant do both.

 

Ravens drafted ANOTHER 1st round offensive weapon. That makes 3 ( Hollywood, Hurst, Bateman) since he has been in the league. If Lamar passing numbers go up Lamar will get all the credit. If they dont the WR's will get all the blame. I call that the Lebron Effect.

 

You know that dreadful cliche people use about Quarterbacks around draft time "he can make all the throws"? I have never really understood what it means and I think different people use it to mean different things. But Lamar Jackson is the poster boy for the Quarterback who can't "make all the throws." He can make some, and the ones he can make he is decent at. But there are a host of throws that Lamar Jackson just can't make. You need his running to threaten the edge of the defense because the throws he makes well are in the middle of the field and if you are not testing the edges in the passing game then you better have a pretty good option package out of the pistol where teams can't just defend the pass in the middle and cheat inside in case Jackson keeps it. That isn't to say Lamar sucks at all but how can someone be a top 5 Quarterback when they have a whole host of standard NFL throws they just can't make? 

[Protocal69]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I think you can add what I said above.  If Diggs made Allen then Diggs has to be the best WR ever cause noone has made a jump like Allen.  Thats effectively what they are arguing.  

I didnt see that but you are absolutely right

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 7/26/2021 at 1:59 AM, Rochesterfan said:

 

Take it 1 step further - go back to 2019 - both Cole and John Brown as the new #1 and #2 had their best years in the NFL with Allen throwing them the ball.  
 

So if you combine 2019 and 2020 - 3 different WRs have career years with Allen and 1 WR had a career year in 2019 and improved it in 2020.

 

 

 

You can even go back to Allen's rookie year in 2018.

 

Robert Forster career year.

Zay Jones career year.

 

Charles Clay, Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes did any of them even play another snap in the NFL?