Olympics Thread

[That's No Moon]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Exactly.

 

So being not that big of a deal, go out and do your job. Its not like she had to face her accusers or fight on the battlefield.

 

While we are discussing the downfall of civilization, I think it's worth noting that the other people on the team gutted it up and won without her.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

While we are discussing the downfall of civilization, I think it's worth noting that the other people on the team gutted it up and won without her.

 

Definitely.

 

I think many people, led by the unbiased media, are confusing mental health with sports performance. She cracked under pressure, which does happen , however she should have shown some fortitude and battled back. It totally respect her and all the others gymnasts who suffered at the hands of that doctor, but that is not what happened here.

 

 

Also listening to Dresser talk about one of his teammates achieving his own greatness (the teammate) not trying to reach for anyone else standard is the stupidest thing ive heard from an Olympian. No , you dont define your own greatness, you go for the highest standards which is winning as much as possible. Otherwise if everyone sets their own standard then greatness wont be achieved as everyone will just doing what makes them happy. Sorry but trying for greatness is hard and tough and often not fun but that is the point of being the best is to be the few that are willing to go the extra mile to achieve it. Now this isn't for everybody, which is fine,   as most dont have it in them to be great , but for those who want to be the best they are going to have strive for the goal that is already set not the one they choose is good enough.

[That's No Moon]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Also listening to Dresser talk about one of his teammates achieving his own greatness (the teammate) not trying to reach for anyone else standard is the stupidest thing ive heard from an Olympian. No , you dont define your own greatness, you go for the highest standards which is winning as much as possible. Otherwise if everyone sets their own standard then greatness wont be achieved as everyone will just doing what makes them happy. Sorry but trying for greatness is hard and tough and often not fun but that is the point of being the best is to be the few that are willing to go the extra mile to achieve it. Now this isn't for everybody, which is fine,   as most dont have it in them to be great , but for those who want to be the best they are going to have strive for the goal that is already set not the one they choose is good enough.

I get what you are saying, but let's say in a sport like swimming you are swimming against the clock. You really aren't even racing other people. You are racing yourself and your personal best time.  IMO, this is why you see swimming records fall all the time, swimmers aren't racing the other people in the pool. They are racing to beat that time.  They practice to beat that time, not any one individual.  Let's say you swim a personal best in your last race and you come in fourth.  That's the best you have ever done in your life.  You are the fourth best in the world in that discipline. I think you're allowed to call that success.  Granted there are other people better than you but you can't control that. You can only do the best that you can do.  Most of the people who go to the Olympics don't win any medals. It doesn't mean that that simply going isn't a tremendous accomplishment in an athletic career and that those people shouldn't be able to define that as a success just because they weren't the single person on Earth who won.  Even the people who get eliminated in the preliminary heats are often the best in their country at that discipline.  I'm not the best in my country at anything.  I'm not in the top 3 or 4 or 10 or 100. Are you? Now, if you go, and you don't perform up to your own standard, then that's a different thing. That happens too and it happens for a variety of reasons but if you're going to make it you either win the gold or you've failed then you've missed the point of what the Olympics are actually supposed to be about.

 

I was annoyed with Biles initially, not because she didn't compete but because she was impacting other people. Those people won in her absence. She also withdrew from the individual competition so the argument that it was selfishness went away also. If she doesn't want to complete who am I to tell her to?  The only people she has to answer to are herself and her sponsors (who I would imagine are privately pretty pissed off).

 

Getting on Caleb Dressel because he got weepy during the National Anthem after he won the race is just out of line.

Edited July 30, 2021 by That's No Moon

[Buffalo Barbarian]

22 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I get what you are saying, but let's say in a sport like swimming you are swimming against the clock. You really aren't even racing other people. You are racing yourself and your personal best time.  Let's say you swim a personal best in your last race and you come in fourth.  That's the best you have ever done in your life.  You are the fourth best in the world in that discipline. I think you're allowed to call that success.  Granted there are other people better than you but you can't control that. You can only do the best that you can do.  Most of the people who go to the Olympics don't win any medals. It doesn't mean that that simply going isn't a tremendous accomplishment in an athletic career and that those people shouldn't be able to define that as a success just because they weren't the single person on Earth who won.  Even the people who get eliminated in the preliminary heats are often the best in their country at that discipline.  I'm not the best in my country at anything.  I'm not in the top 3 or 4 or 10 or 100. Are you? Now, if you go, and you don't perform up to your own standard, then that's a different thing. That happens too and it happens for a variety of reasons but if you're going to make it you either win the gold or you've failed then you've missed the point of what the Olympics are actually supposed to be about.

 

I was annoyed with Biles initially, not because she didn't compete but because she was impacting other people. Those people won in her absence. She also withdrew from the individual competition so the argument that it was selfishness went away also. If she doesn't want to complete who am I to tell her to?  The only people she has to answer to are herself and her sponsors (who I would imagine are privately pretty pissed off).

 

Getting on Caleb Dressel because he got weepy during the National Anthem after he won the race is just out of line.

 

Guess we disagree about Dresser.

 

Sure its great to do your best but this isnt little league. If i came in 4th and thats all i could do i would be happy with that but that doesnt mean im not trying to win and would be much happier if i got gold. Yes most people wont win but setting your own standard will lead to mediocrity.

 

I was a ranked wrestler but never number one and that bugged the Hell out of me, but enjoyed training and my time in the sport but i cant say i was truly satisfied with my results even though i did the best that i could. Also my identity wasnt\isnt wrapped up in sports it was just one of the things i liked doing. One of the problems many athletes have is they only see themselves as an athlete and when that fails they cant handle it. They and people in general need to be more well rounded so they can deal with failures in life.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Guess we disagree about Dresser.

 

Sure its great to your best but this isnt little league. If i came in 4th and thats all i could do i would be happy with that but that doesnt mean im not trying to win and would be much happier if i got gold. Yes most people wont win but setting your own standard will lead to mediocrity.

 

I was a ranked wrestler but never number one and that bugged the Hell out of me, but enjoyed training and my time in the sport but i cant say i was truly satisfied with my results even though i did the best that i could. Also my identity wasnt\isnt wrapped up in sports it was just one of the things i liked doing. One of the problems many athletes have is they only see themselves as an athlete and when that fails they cant handle it. They and people in general need to more well rounded so they can deal with failures in life.

 

 

Defining improvement as success isn't leading to mediocrity. It's leading to improvement.  If you are doing that continually, and setting goals for yourself you will achieve the best version of yourself in that discipline.  That version may never be world class. In fact, it probably won't, but it doesn't make it not worthwhile.  Part of the problem our society has is that is tries to force people to define their success through others.  Who has the biggest house, the nicest car, the newest phone, etc.  We do it to people all the time.  If we are going to tear down an Olympian for setting goals that got him to the Olympics how are we handling everyone else?  

 

Let me give you another example. I've coached interscholastic baseball before at a couple different programs. You get a wide variety of kids with different abilities coming in. Part of my job is to assess what the kids can and can't do and help them to address their weaknesses while building on their strengths.  Making a ludicrous goal for a kid isn't going to help them get better. It's going to discourage them when they don't see themselves getting close or worse they are going to hurt themselves trying to get to a point they can't get to too quickly.  If you have a freshman pitcher who throws 78mph you're not going to tell him "Well Timmy, you need to throw 96 or you're just not going to make it" He's not able to do that. He's not going to be able to do that soon and physiologically he might not do it ever. It's much more productive to set a goal with Timmy that says, OK Timmy, let's work on this this and this to get you stronger and clean up your delivery and if you can add 4 mph by the end of the year that's a big win. Then Timmy does the work and he sees himself getting incrementally better and he's more willing to do the work and he's now throwing 82 and you celebrate that win and set a new goal. At some point Timmy is going to top out. Everyone tops out which is why MLB pitchers don't throw 120mph no matter how bad they want to. If Timmy tops out at 88 and just can't throw any harder than that it doesn't mean Timmy failed.  That's the hardest his body will allow him to throw.  If Timmy set his goal right away at 96 then Timmy failed and all of that work was a waste of time. If Timmy set his goal to be "let's see how good at this I can become" then he can see it as a success which is better for everyone involved in the long run. The guy that Dressel was talking about set his goal to be "let's see how good I can be and be happy with that" rather than "win or it was a waste". If he'd done the latter he'd probably have bailed a long time before he made it to the Olympics at all.  It has to be incredibly frustrating to be that good at something and still continually lose to the Michael Phelps' and Caleb Dressels'.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Defining improvement as success isn't leading to mediocrity. It's leading to improvement.  If you are doing that continually, and setting goals for yourself you will achieve the best version of yourself in that discipline.  That version may never be world class. In fact, it probably won't, but it doesn't make it not worthwhile.  Part of the problem our society has is that is tries to force people to define their success through others.  Who has the biggest house, the nicest car, the newest phone, etc.  We do it to people all the time.  If we are going to tear down an Olympian for setting goals that got him to the Olympics how are we handling everyone else?  

 

Let me give you another example. I've coached interscholastic baseball before at a couple different programs. You get a wide variety of kids with different abilities coming in. Part of my job is to assess what the kids can and can't do and help them to address their weaknesses while building on their strengths.  Making a ludicrous goal for a kid isn't going to help them get better. It's going to discourage them when they don't see themselves getting close or worse they are going to hurt themselves trying to get to a point they can't get to too quickly.  If you have a freshman pitcher who throws 78mph you're not going to tell him "Well Timmy, you need to throw 96 or you're just not going to make it" He's not able to do that. He's not going to be able to do that soon and physiologically he might not do it ever. It's much more productive to set a goal with Timmy that says, OK Timmy, let's work on this this and this to get you stronger and clean up your delivery and if you can add 4 mph by the end of the year that's a big win. Then Timmy does the work and he sees himself getting incrementally better and he's more willing to do the work and he's now throwing 82 and you celebrate that win and set a new goal. At some point Timmy is going to top out. Everyone tops out which is why MLB pitchers don't throw 120mph no matter how bad they want to. If Timmy tops out at 88 and just can't throw any harder than that it doesn't mean Timmy failed.  That's the hardest his body will allow him to throw.  If Timmy set his goal right away at 96 then Timmy failed and all of that work was a waste of time. If Timmy set his goal to be "let's see how good at this I can become" then he can see it as a success which is better for everyone involved in the long run. The guy that Dressel was talking about set his goal to be "let's see how good I can be and be happy with that" rather than "win or it was a waste". If he'd done the latter he'd probably have bailed a long time before he made it to the Olympics at all.  It has to be incredibly frustrating to be that good at something and still continually lose to the Michael Phelps' and Caleb Dressels'.

 

I agree with what you are saying as people definitely have a keeping up with the Jones problem as the average joe is just going to drive himself crazy if he tries to have the best house, car job, etc,  but being an Olympian or high level athlete is another story. You know that you are entering a field were competing is everything and trying to be better than everyone else is the goal.

 

If that teammate actually wants to win gold then fine but my problem is , if his goal is just to to his best then he should be a recreational swimmer and just do it for fun. If you want to be an Olympian then you have to have a higher standard and its not one that you set, it has already been set and that is winning the gold. 

 

Those gymnasts who said they dont owe us a gold medal are full of s#!t, the only reason you're there is to represent your country and to win. Now if you dont win , you dont but winning is the goal. Like i said before this is not recreational sports done just for fun, your are there to win. Now winning isnt the end of the world it just means you need to work harder and smarter to get the job done. Now if you never win and are retired you can look back at your career and say you did your best and be happy with it but if you're actively competing you have to have a take no prisoners mind set.

 

i still lift heavy weights and have goals of setting world records even though im 50. Is it realistic, no, am i crazy, probably , but i go out there and give it Hell every time getting a little bit better as i go. There have been set backs believe me but im never going to quit until i achieve my goals and then i still wont quit because its what i love to do . Maybe im wired differently but just training for health or to maintain is just not for me, every time i think about quitting i think about how i hate training with out the goal to get stronger more.

 

Last year i was my strongest ever at age 49 but then my dumb wife left me and i lost a ton of weight and strength from all that stress even though i was still lifting. So now im building back and will be even stronger and will eventually get those records. Ive never used steroids and haven't had to use TRT (hopefully never do) but i have a system were i can train hard and still recover and Lord willing i will achieve my goals.

 

Losing isnt the failure as its an opportunity to learn and get better, quiting is the failure and that is what she did.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[SirAndrew]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if that was the case then she should have never gone in the first place. You dont go from everything is fine to one screw up on the vault and be like im out. She got the yipps and couldn't handle failure.

 

She let her teammates down regardless of what her they say.

 

watching Dresser cry like a baby was also embarrassing, act like a man when you celebrate, like the Chinese weightlifters. Unfortunately now man are taught to act like women and vice versa and is why so many people are depressed and have anxiety because we are being taught to go against are our natures.

 

 

 

Its good to be tough and persevere, now we are being taught to be weak and everyone has there own truth, we wont be a strong nation long with this mindest.

 

 

I’ve sadly known too many people who suffered abuse at various points of their lives. Things often go from being just fine to being an issue. She may very well have stayed in the sport with an idea that she’s now doing if for herself, and owes nothing to US gymnastics. I typically agree with the “softening” of America takes, but I believe there are circumstances and exceptions. It’s weird there’s almost more outrage against Biles then there ever was against Naseer 🤔 Our society is becoming soft, but the world has no place for what happened with US gymnastics, and it makes me sympathetic towards any issues some of these competitors might have. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ve sadly known too many people who suffered abuse at various points of their lives. Things often go from being just fine to being an issue. She may very well have stayed in the sport with an idea that she’s now doing if for herself, and owes nothing to US gymnastics. I typically agree with the “softening” of America takes, but I believe there are circumstances and exceptions. It’s weird there’s almost more outrage against Biles then there ever was against Naseer 🤔 Our society is becoming soft, but the world has no place for what happened with US gymnastics, and it makes me sympathetic towards any issues some of these competitors might have. 

 

If her issues stem from that abuse then she has a legit case but it obvious she had a sports performance issue not a mental health issues. Now trying to be the best can you crazy or inadequate or whatever but it's not the same as dealing with sexual abuse.

[SirAndrew]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

If her issues stem from that abuse then she has a legit case but it obvious she had a sports performance issue not a mental health issues. Now trying to be the best can you crazy or inadequate or whatever but it's not the same as dealing with sexual abuse.

I get your point, I’m just saying that it’s really tough to judge her when all things are considered. The sport and mental health could be one in the same when it directly involved the sport. It was a sports performance issue, but whether or not she stuck it out could have been determined by other factors. The fact that she stayed in gymnastics is a testament to her strength imo. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I get your point, I’m just saying that it’s really tough to judge her when all things are considered. The sport and mental health could be one in the same when it directly involved the sport. It was a sports performance issue, but whether or not she stuck it out could have been determined by other factors. The fact that she stayed in gymnastics is a testament to her strength imo. 

 

With Naseer its been awhile and hes been forgotten about, there was plenty of outrage at the time and deservedly so and he has since been punished, so hes not on people's minds.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

watching Dresser cry like a baby was also embarrassing, act like a man when you celebrate, like the Chinese weightlifters. Unfortunately now man are taught to act like women and vice versa and is why so many people are depressed and have anxiety because we are being taught to go against are our natures

 

[RaoulDuke79]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

With Naseer its been awhile and hes been forgotten about, there was plenty of outrage at the time and deservedly so and he has since been punished, so hes not on people's minds.

 

 

After being found guilty, I'm not sure why people like Nasser have any business still walking on this earth. Some people just need to go.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The Olympics have too many sports as it is and now they want to do mixed racing and swimming??

 

 

Id rather see ninja style obstacle courses , cross fit, strongman and MMA added to The Olympics

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

If i ran the Olympics it would the Arnold Classic plus track and field and swimming. I suppose the rowing too.

 

 

[US Egg]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

watching Dresser cry like a baby was also embarrassing, act like a man when you celebrate

Like this?

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

watching Dresser cry like a baby was also embarrassing, act like a man when you celebrate

Like this?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, I am the egg man said:

Like this?

Like this?

 

But minus the hugging of course

 

More like this

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, I am the egg man said:

Like this?

 

Like this?

 

Like this?

 

Like this?

 

Like this?

 

 

and this is different from your previous post how ??

 

 

[US Egg]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

and this is different from your previous post how ??

...using an old kindle, the submit button kept freezing, flickering, I didn't know if it went through and kept tapping it.

 

Guess I got my $59 out of it.

 

Sorry. 😥

[Doc Brown]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:25 PM, oldmanfan said:

I have mixed feelings.  Most of us older folks who played sports were taught that you have to be there for the team.  So from that perspective when I heard the news I thought she was bailing on her teammates, that she owed it to them to suck it up and get out there.  Then I got home and watched her vault, and it was clear she was way out of it.   I think if she had continued not only would she have done poorly and cost her team a chance on the podium, but she could have hurt her self in a sport where one wrong move can break your neck.  So it's hard to compare what she had to deal with vs. what Kerri Strug did; Strug knew it would hurt like hell when she landed, Biles wasn't sure if she'd land on her next event.

 

Couple last points.  One, unless you are an elite athlete I don't think any of us can appreciate the pressures such individuals feel.  Second, maybe it's time to drop the jingoistic fervor around the Olympics (as was started during the Cold War), and just recognize the Games for what they are, a chance for athletes of different countries to compete.  

I agree.  I'm just wondering if her situation is similar to a kicker who gets the yips or when Knobloch couldn't throw to first base anymore and voluntarily left in the middle of a game.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Simone Biles has the Twisties, which is a sports performance issue not a mental health issue that the media blew it up to be. This should have been stated from the get go to avoid confusion and if its a safety risk then it makes sense to withdraw.