oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: All that's well and good but if the vaccine is effective what then are vaccinated people afraid of regarding contacting un-vaccinated people? Other than people stating they "don't feel safe" what if any facts justify their fears? More importantly and seemingly lost on almost everyone is an insight from the the CDC director that a vaccinated person is capable of carrying the same high viral load as an un-vaccinated person. The unstated conclusion is troubling, vaccines don't kill or stop the virus from replicating. So every vaccinated person walking around is a potential mutation and variant incubator and the vaccination program as currently defined will not eradicate or control the virus. We still need a strong and effective anti-viral to gain any real control over the outbreak, vaccinated or not. I agree it would be great to have effective anti-virals as for example with HIV. The vaccines will eventually slow down or stop transmission as the virus is deprived more and more of hosts. But then the virus mutates to try and keep the advantage as we see with delta. The vaccinated carrying high loads is a small subset of the total vaccinated as I understand it. Bottom line is the vaccinated are now being asked to mask again to try and spare the unvaccinated from their own stupidity.
Chef Jim Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I agree it would be great to have effective anti-virals as for example with HIV. The vaccines will eventually slow down or stop transmission as the virus is deprived more and more of hosts. But then the virus mutates to try and keep the advantage as we see with delta. The vaccinated carrying high loads is a small subset of the total vaccinated as I understand it. Bottom line is the vaccinated are now being asked to mask again to try and spare the unvaccinated from their own stupidity. How long have we had the flu vaccine and we still have the flu? Covid is here to stay in some form.
oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 41 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: How long have we had the flu vaccine and we still have the flu? Covid is here to stay in some form. I don’t think we will eradicate Covid, but we will control it. I don’t know of a coronavirus that has been eradicated. 1
SCBills Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Bottom line is the vaccinated are now being asked to mask again to try and spare the unvaccinated from their own stupidity. So easily manipulated. The government is telling you to do this, and because they don’t want you turning on them, they deflect to “the unvaccinated”, and y’all fall for it every time. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, except for the government officials you simp for. You’re vaccinated. You can still get covid. You can still transmit covid. Im not vaccinated. I can still get covid. I can still transmit covid. You don’t care about natural immunity, post-Covid infections, because the government has told you it doesn’t matter. It should matter… because it’s just as effective as your vaccination. I eat healthy, exercise and take vitamins to make sure my immune system is in good shape to fight off the virus. Do you? You want to shame people for not taking a vaccine that A) Doesn’t prevent covid, B) Doesn’t prevent transmission of covid and C) Will require consistent booster shots? …..so in other words, the seasonal flu? Who are you worried about? The kids? Who you want masked up for your safety? Same kids you probably never said a word about during the Swine Flu or in regards to RSV, which killed/kill far more children than covid. Worried about mutations?… it’s a big, big world out there… This isn’t a United States-centric issue. Tell me where these variants have all started?… because they didn’t originate here in the states. Going to have to learn to live with this.. Or I suppose you can sell out your fellow Americans to make yourself feel better. 2
Sundancer Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 On 8/14/2021 at 8:59 AM, Buffalo Timmy said: The article about people in Orlando getting a third shot because they have no immunity left is not in support of what I said? Why is Israel giving a third shot if not for waning coverage? Please tell me how these two facts don't back me up? I already did. Nothing you linked supports, “Of course we now know the vaccines are not lasting more than 6 months in most cases.” What we know is that vaccines are providing robust immune support at least 18 months into the testing for almost all cases except for those whose immunity is compromised. But you keep chicken-little-ing. 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I don’t think we will eradicate Covid, but we will control it. I don’t know of a coronavirus that has been eradicated. It hurts to be here, doesn't it?
Sundancer Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 5 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I agree it would be great to have effective anti-virals as for example with HIV. The vaccines will eventually slow down or stop transmission as the virus is deprived more and more of hosts. But then the virus mutates to try and keep the advantage as we see with delta. The vaccinated carrying high loads is a small subset of the total vaccinated as I understand it. Bottom line is the vaccinated are now being asked to mask again to try and spare the unvaccinated from their own stupidity. Carrying a high viral content in your nasal cavity is not the same as transmitting, and even the viral load in the nasal cavity drops faster in those who are vaccinated. Moreover that study in the CDC did not differentiate between live and dead virus--this was just viral load. Vaccines reduce virus shedding time, symptomatic infection and the presence of immune response generated by the vaccine suppresses the amount of viable virus. The viral load study is a woefully incomplete data point.
oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sundancer said: Carrying a high viral content in your nasal cavity is not the same as transmitting, and even the viral load in the nasal cavity drops faster in those who are vaccinated. Moreover that study in the CDC did not differentiate between live and dead virus--this was just viral load. Vaccines reduce virus shedding time, symptomatic infection and the presence of immune response generated by the vaccine suppresses the amount of viable virus. The viral load study is a woefully incomplete data point. Completely agreed
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: I already did. Nothing you linked supports, “Of course we now know the vaccines are not lasting more than 6 months in most cases.” What we know is that vaccines are providing robust immune support at least 18 months into the testing for almost all cases except for those whose immunity is compromised. But you keep chicken-little-ing. The vaccines have only been used widespread for 8 months but we know about an 18 month robust support. Dude do you work for the Pfizer?
Sundancer Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The vaccines have only been used widespread for 8 months but we know about an 18 month robust support. Dude do you work for the Pfizer? Typo but I'm still waiting for you on this: “Of course we now know the vaccines are not lasting more than 6 months in most cases.” I'll stop asking for you to support it since you failed so miserably the last 3 times I asked.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: Typo but I'm still waiting for you on this: “Of course we now know the vaccines are not lasting more than 6 months in most cases.” I'll stop asking for you to support it since you failed so miserably the last 3 times I asked. You never once showed where I was wrong- you simply stated my actual facts were not facts. You have presented nothing as far a recent study.
Chef Jim Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Sundancer said: It hurts to be here, doesn't it? You’re welcome to leave at any time.
Big Blitz Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 “What’s coming next is that we are going to have to continue to get people vaccinated so that right now, even in states in which you have a good relative proportion of people vaccinated, you have to get the overwhelming proportion of people vaccinated. But you also have to do mitigation. And that gets to the controversial issue of mask-wearing and the mandating of things mandating of vaccines, for example, for teachers and people in the personnel in the school, but also in situations as uncomfortable as we know and controversial as we know it is with regard to masks wearing, particularly in the situation in schools, we’ve just got to realize that we’re dealing with a public health crisis. And the more you get infections, the more spread you get, the greater opportunity the virus has to continue to evolve and mutate.” “Right now, we are fortunate in that the vaccines that we have are quite good against the Delta variant, particularly with regard to preventing severe disease with hospitalizations and deaths. We certainly are getting what are called breakthrough infections, which means a person who was vaccinated might get infected and actually may even spread the virus. But in general, those people are not the ones who are getting seriously ill and dying. It’s the unvaccinated that are doing that. So we have a lot of tasks. We’ve got to do mitigation, put aside all of these issues of concern about liberties and personal liberties, and realize we have a common enemy, and that common enemy is the virus.... .. And we really have to all pull together to get on top of this. Otherwise, we’re going to continue to suffer as we’re seeing right now.” Variants will stop when the thugs in this country realize this never ends.
eball Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 Jesus I finally visit this forum to see what’s up and realize it’s infiltrated with morons. The virus is MUTATING because people aren’t vaccinated and stopping the spread. All of the “it only affects 1%” people don’t get it. Get the frigging shot. It’s safe and free. Do it for EVERYONE, not for yourself. So stupid.
Big Blitz Posted August 15, 2021 Posted August 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, eball said: Jesus I finally visit this forum to see what’s up and realize it’s infiltrated with morons. The virus is MUTATING because people aren’t vaccinated and stopping the spread. All of the “it only affects 1%” people don’t get it. Get the frigging shot. It’s safe and free. Do it for EVERYONE, not for yourself. So stupid. Vaccination is NOT stopping the spread its limiting deaths and hospitalizations. So since it continues to spread among the vaccinated - does that mean mutations continue? Serious question.
TSOL Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 48 minutes ago, eball said: Jesus I finally visit this forum to see what’s up and realize it’s infiltrated with morons. The virus is MUTATING because people aren’t vaccinated and stopping the spread. All of the “it only affects 1%” people don’t get it. Get the frigging shot. It’s safe and free. Do it for EVERYONE, not for yourself. So stupid. When Pfiser becomes a not for profit organization for the betterment of mankind, I'll get the shot. 1
keepthefaith Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 12 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Bottom line is the vaccinated are now being asked to mask again to try and spare the unvaccinated from their own stupidity. You couldn't be more wrong. The vaccinated are being told to mask up because the vaccines only provide about 6 months of protection and our vaccinated population is gradually moving into an unprotected phase. Many breakthrough cases are happening. Just look at Israel cases where they vaccinated nearly their entire population very early. Their case count is blowing up and is at pre-vaccine levels. Link below. We are headed to the same place. In fact we are there, US cases are at November 2020 levels now. You know who isn't getting Covid now or before? Healthy individuals with healthy immune systems. https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/
Doc Brown Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Big Blitz said: Vaccination is NOT stopping the spread its limiting deaths and hospitalizations. So since it continues to spread among the vaccinated - does that mean mutations continue? Serious question. Significantly limiting among the vaccinated. Which is why everyone eligible should take the vaccine and any booster shots to follow.
Doc Brown Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: You couldn't be more wrong. The vaccinated are being told to mask up because the vaccines only provide about 6 months of protection and our vaccinated population is gradually moving into an unprotected phase. Many breakthrough cases are happening. Just look at Israel cases where they vaccinated nearly their entire population very early. Their case count is blowing up and is at pre-vaccine levels. Link below. We are headed to the same place. In fact we are there, US cases are at November 2020 levels now. You know who isn't getting Covid now or before? Healthy individuals with healthy immune systems. https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/ Some of the healthiest people in this country are men in their 20's and 30's in professional sports who eat right and exercise regularly. Yet we've seen Covid spread through locker rooms like wildfire. This is a dumb statement. Lamar somehow got it twice.
Big Blitz Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Significantly limiting among the vaccinated. Which is why everyone eligible should take the vaccine and any booster shots to follow. Explain why they are implementing them despite this medical miracle? Explain how 100% vaccination (never ever happening and they know it) is going to change the dynamics of "mutations?" Which is the most asinine metric in the history of pandemics. 1
Doc Brown Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 Just now, Big Blitz said: Explain why they are implementing them despite this medical miracle? Explain how 100% vaccination (never ever happening and they know it) is going to change the dynamics of "mutations?" Which is the most asinine metric in the history of pandemics. Did I say I'm in favor of vaccine passports?
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