All_Pro_Bills Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: The idea of the right to some kind of control over one's own body has already been mentioned here. I pointed out that there is no such overarching "right." The proper example here isn't state-mandated killing of innocent people. It's the whole "right to die" thing. Assisted suicide has generally been against the law. Some think it shouldn't be, that it should be allowed. But that's what elected governments decide. I don't want a court to "find" a right to assisted suicide. I also don't want courts to "find" (somewhere, hidden in all that rightsy language in the constitution, the Declaration of Independence, etc., etc.) a right to not be vaccinated. This U.S. constitution is not some kind of hard libertarian document people make it out to be. It restrains the power of the federal government (and later, through the incorporation doctrine, state governments), but it doesn't create some kind of Ayn Rand fantasyland. The government has the right to make me work one or two days a week for their benefit; that's what taxation does. I suggest you might want to define the means which this policy would be enforced as the government could be faced with an enforcement issue. What if 50 or 60 million people refuse to comply? What if 30 or 40 percent of the population tells you to go pound it? Are you going to go door to door with Federal agents, hold people down, and inject them with two doses of the vaccine? What if these agents are greeted at the door with a hail of bullets? Pretty soon you run our of living and breathing agents that want to stay that way. And if the vaccines prove to be ineffective against this variant while vaccinated people get sick you're going to have a bigger issue. These people running the show and calling the shots here hold no absolute power and can be removed through the voting booth or other means given the proper circumstances. 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, BillStime said: You are a very confused person. A bunch of Biden supporters have died from Covid as well. So? Trump wasn’t against the vaccine. He’s the one who got us the damn things! 1 1
JaCrispy Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Covid will always be around, regardless of how many people get vaccinated imo... And just remember, “they” create the problem so they can sell you the solution... Edited July 20, 2021 by JaCrispy 2 2 1
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 On 7/20/2021 at 5:58 PM, Big Blitz said: Dam man that's awful. Were they not able or willing to get vaccinated? Don't think so getting vaccinated. But before her mother had covid they told her something else she had. Witch was messed up. But she got vaccinated after. Ya been terrible past few weeks for my buddies. One passed away after the 4th after losing his baby few weeks earlier, years ago, lost his pg gf and kid to a house fire. And couldn't handle it anymore and took himself and his other kid having open heart surgrey. Gave a inspring card to everyone and some money to help people out. What I always try my best to do. Forgive me going off topic to everyone.
Doc Brown Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) On 7/20/2021 at 7:32 PM, JaCrispy said: Covid will always be around, regardless of how many people get vaccinated imo... And just remember, “they” create the problem so they can sell you the solution... It will always be around but you can't deny the mRNA vaccines effectiveness along with its ability to save lives right now. Almost 9k deaths that could've been prevented in Texas. You'd pry see similar numbers in every US state. Also, the mRNA vaccines are pretty damn resilient to all the variants so far including delta. The US developed the best vaccines on the planet at an incredibly fast pace. It's frustrating to me that people keep looking for flaws in the vaccines as an excuse for not getting vaccinated instead of taking advantage of a medical miracle (imo) so we can get back to living our lives. The government shouldn't mandate it. However, these mRNA vaccines are going to be FDA approved soon. When that happens I see no reason businesses can't mandate it for their employees or colleges mandate it for admission. Edited July 22, 2021 by Doc Brown 2
The Frankish Reich Posted July 22, 2021 Author Posted July 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Also, the mRNA vaccines are pretty damn resilient to all the variants so far including delta. The US developed the best vaccines on the planet at an incredibly fast pace. It's frustrating to me that people keep looking for flaws in the vaccines as an excuse for not getting vaccinated instead of taking advantage of a medical miracle (imo) so we can get back to living our lives. The government shouldn't mandate it. However, these mRNA vaccines are going to be FDA approved soon. When that happens I see no reason businesses can't mandate it for their employees or colleges mandate it for admission. Excellent comment - thanks. As for businesses mandating it for their customers: where do our resident right-libertarians fall on that? It's my business, I ought to be able to decide who I want to serve, right? Even if you disagree with the government mandating vaccines, what is the philosophical justification for Florida telling cruise lines that they are forbidden from rejecting unvaccinated travelers? Is that not an infringement on Norwegian Cruise Lines right to run their business the way they want to run their business?
John Adams Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 On 7/20/2021 at 7:32 PM, JaCrispy said: Covid will always be around, regardless of how many people get vaccinated imo... And just remember, “they” create the problem so they can sell you the solution... Who are, umm, "they?" Feel free to DM me if you're afraid to identify "them" aloud? Or is this the MIC or Deep State or Illuminati or whatever the conspiracist kids are into these days? 2
The Frankish Reich Posted July 23, 2021 Author Posted July 23, 2021 https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/politics/alabama-governor-kay-ivey-unvaccinated-covid/ "Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down," Ivey told reporters in Birmingham.
John Adams Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 36 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/politics/alabama-governor-kay-ivey-unvaccinated-covid/ "Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down," Ivey told reporters in Birmingham. Alabama arriving to the party right on time.
BillStime Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: No one had issues with immunization cards right? Your keepers will do anything to manipulate and get the most hate out of you. Hope you win bro!
Big Blitz Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, BillStime said: No one had issues with immunization cards right? Your keepers will do anything to manipulate and get the most hate out of you. Hope you win bro! Yes. We hate fascists. Thank you for your time. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 23, 2021 Author Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: We had ration cards to get through WWII. We had the military draft to win various wars, from the Civil War onward. We have had security to get on an airplane for at least 50 years now. We have had vaccine requirements for schools - and for immigrants - for a century. We have had licensing requirements for drivers since 1903 (before most people had even seen a car) We had "blue laws" restricting store openings on Sundays in nearly every state for the first 200 years of our existence. We prohibited two consenting adults from touching each other's bodies in a certain manner in every state for that same 200 years. We allowed sterilization of purported "imbeciles" in many states based on Oliver Wendell Holmes' rationalization that "three generations of imbeciles is enough." We have lined up children in school to get injected with a polio vaccine to stop the scourge of childhood paralysis. All restrictions on freedom, some far, far greater restraints than a "vaccine passport." Many we find abhorrent today. Many we have come to accept as necessary if we are to live together in relative peace, harmony, and health. COVID vaccines fit the bill. The United States (and the individual states) were never designed around some abstract principle of completely unfettered liberty. People need to grow up. Edited July 23, 2021 by The Frankish Reich 1 1
Big Blitz Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: We had ration cards to get through WWII. We had the military draft to win various wars, from the Civil War onward. We have had security to get on an airplane for at least 50 years now. We have had vaccine requirements for schools - and for immigrants - for a century. We have had licensing requirements for drivers since 1903 (before most people had even seen a car) We had "blue laws" restricting store openings on Sundays in nearly every state for the first 200 years of our existence. All restrictions on freedom, some far, far greater restraints than a "vaccine passport." The United States (and the individual states) were never designed around some abstract principle of completely unfettered liberty. People need to grow up. But not voter ID. That's a no no. 2 1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 23, 2021 Author Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: But not voter ID. That's a no no. Which has what to do with vaccine requirements? Seriously: I take it you accept some restraints on liberty. I live in a city with a chronic homeless problem. I don't want homeless people pitching tents on the strip of land between the sidewalk in front of my home and the street even though that strip is technically city property. I don't want unlicensed "doctors" performing surgery. In other words, I accept, and find essential, certain restraints on liberty that further my family's health and safety. I'm not saying that every incursion on liberty is justified. I'm just having problems figuring out why many people of a decidedly non-libertarian persuasion are particularly offended by the idea of requiring vaccinations. Example: many (by no means all) Trump supporters are vehemently anti-required vaccines. Many of the same people support restraints on free trade - make me pay more for foreign steel or forbid me from buying it entirely. Why is one restraint on liberty (steel tariffs based on some very shaky economic theory) o.k., or even positively good, whereas others (mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease) way beyond the pale? You need to have a justification. Mine is essentially a cost-benefit one. Yours? Edited July 23, 2021 by The Frankish Reich
Big Blitz Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: We had ration cards to get through WWII. We had the military draft to win various wars, from the Civil War onward. We have had security to get on an airplane for at least 50 years now. We have had vaccine requirements for schools - and for immigrants - for a century. We have had licensing requirements for drivers since 1903 (before most people had even seen a car) We had "blue laws" restricting store openings on Sundays in nearly every state for the first 200 years of our existence. We prohibited two consenting adults from touching each other's bodies in a certain manner in every state for that same 200 years. We allowed sterilization of purported "imbeciles" in many states based on Oliver Wendell Holmes' rationalization that "three generations of imbeciles is enough." We have lined up children in school to get injected with a polio vaccine to stop the scourge of childhood paralysis. All restrictions on freedom, some far, far greater restraints than a "vaccine passport." Many we find abhorrent today. Many we have come to accept as necessary if we are to live together in relative peace, harmony, and health. COVID vaccines fit the bill. The United States (and the individual states) were never designed around some abstract principle of completely unfettered liberty. People need to grow up. Here is the problem. If the FDA approves it by 2025, and we have to have them for schools, ok whatever. Will I need a vaccine card to go to restaurants? Whatever not my point. Here is my point and the problem. THEY ARE LYING. The minute the WHO covered for China. The minute 15 days turned in to indefinitely. The minute the metrics moved - 5000 times. We had to do A, B, and C to end the pandemic we didn't really tell you how we were going to end. Full stop. This is a massive massive problem. Vaccine zealots refuse to acknowledge this. I think that's because they had an election to cheat to win but that's over now. You refuse to also answer some very simple questions as people blindly go out and get infected with a new vaccine. You say the vaccine protects you so why do those that refuse it pose a problem? Oh that goal post has moved now to. And you hear 1000 reasons why and they're all lies. All these scary variants happened in a few months. Why should I believe that we won't hear about the Omega Variant come October and we're going to have to see how these vaccines hold up vs that now. Look how hysterical everyone is over fake Delta. Is original Covid gone by the way? Acknowledge the lies, no "mitigation is over" metrics, fire Fauci (Europe still doing better than us you hack?), and that you have no clue what the vaccines will do long term or if they are safe and maybe you'll get your evil hold outs on board. 2 1
B-Man Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, BillStime said: Your keepers will do anything to manipulate and get the most hate out of you. 1
Big Blitz Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) Never. Ends. This is the tipping point for when people vaccinated against COVID-19 should mask up again indoors https://on.mktw.net/3kKMKAp Stop thinking that people have no problem with the face diaper or that they shouldn't. Or that their 5 year olds shouldn't. Get your head out of your *** and start acknowledging these people's concerns and that they are legitimate. I was at meeting the other day. The main speaker was in a mask for some reason. I took nothing he said seriously. Absolutely nothing. That's what is going to happen in schools. A masked teacher blah blah blah ing a bunch of ticked off or scared kids. The people without the mask on have an impact. You can see AND NEED TO SEE their faces for their impact to be meaningful, authentic, and real. This insanity is taking that from the kids. No end in sight - at least in deep blue ***t hole states and school districts. Edited July 23, 2021 by Big Blitz 1
BillStime Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Here is the problem. If the FDA approves it by 2025, and we have to have them for schools, ok whatever. Will I need a vaccine card to go to restaurants? Whatever not my point. Here is my point and the problem. THEY ARE LYING. The minute the WHO covered for China. The minute 15 days turned in to indefinitely. The minute the metrics moved - 5000 times. We had to do A, B, and C to end the pandemic we didn't really tell you how we were going to end. Full stop. This is a massive massive problem. Vaccine zealots refuse to acknowledge this. I think that's because they had an election to cheat to win but that's over now. You refuse to also answer some very simple questions as people blindly go out and get infected with a new vaccine. You say the vaccine protects you so why do those that refuse it pose a problem? Oh that goal post has moved now to. And you hear 1000 reasons why and they're all lies. All these scary variants happened in a few months. Why should I believe that we won't hear about the Omega Variant come October and we're going to have to see how these vaccines hold up vs that now. Look how hysterical everyone is over fake Delta. Is original Covid gone by the way? Acknowledge the lies, no "mitigation is over" metrics, fire Fauci (Europe still doing better than us you hack?), and that you have no clue what the vaccines will do long term or if they are safe and maybe you'll get your evil hold outs on board. Funny, not one mention in your pathetic diatribe about how many Trump lied to us telling us it would disappear like a miracle... 'It's going to disappear': A timeline of Trump's claims that Covid-19 will vanish 1
Big Blitz Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 1 minute ago, BillStime said: Funny, not one mention in your pathetic diatribe about how many Trump lied to us telling us it would disappear like a miracle... 'It's going to disappear': A timeline of Trump's claims that Covid-19 will vanish The 15 days lie is implied that is on Trump and I've said this Bill since last year. Were you not following what I was saying about him during the election. I put that all on him and the continued allowing of President CDC to run the country on him. I checked out and called the election pointless especially after ACB was appointed. Get your head out of your January 6th bubble and get back to reality. Address the concerns we have for ALL the liars or Stop opining on anything. You're just being a partisan hack. If I was a partisan hack - I'll just say this. How much do you see ANY person on my side blaming Biden for anything with this Sham? The cases! The hospitalizations? The failed attempt to meet a sham vaccinated goal. None of us. If it were Trump you'd be blaming him. Trump could be telling more to get the vaccine. But oh right. Twitter security.
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