All_Pro_Bills Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Now this is some poop all the for all who idolize the vaccine and its makers/enablers. I don’t have the time to verify all this today, but will over the next couple of days. This is correct. The available vaccine is the one used under the FDA EUA. The approved vaccine is not available in the USA. The reason for this appears to be legal liability for harm or death as a result of the vaccine. Under EUA the company is not liable but under full authorization they are legally culpable and open to lawsuits for adverse reactions and death. That tells you all you need to know about Pfizer's confidence in the safety of their product. If there's another logical business or medical reason I'm listening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 What a mess. Demented Biden has no idea what to do. Fauci is lost. FDA lost. CDC lost. It’s a ***** free-for-all now thanks to Demented Biden and his communist buddies lack of leadership. Disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 It's never been about science. It's tragic and sad so many have religiously followed these people. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 It's insane to fire healthcare workers for not being vaccinated. They have survived the last 2 years using the best protection and practices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/29/2021 at 5:33 AM, plenzmd1 said: If I am dense, you are just a complete idiot that denies evidence.First, if it was not intended to stop transmission why is it called a vaccine? Just answer that one question and cite another vaccine that was not intended to stop transmission only help with symptoms once contracted. I will stop all posting if you can simply prove what you assert , the vaccines initial goal was to curb symptoms, and it was never intended to stop transmission. I suppose you will deny this too directly from the FDA Website. https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions Jesus , i would rather be dence than as gullible as you Second, watch the video I posted, or the one @Big Blitz did, direct from Faucis mouth “ the are incredibly effective against variants”. Are you truly denying he said that? Do you deny the CEO of Pfizer claimed 100% effectiveness against transmission in South Africa ? Do you deny the hard of the CDC said vaccinated no longer transmit the virus? That Maddow said the “ virus stops at the vaccinated”. If you dumb enoughy to deny all those things even though they are all on the video I linked, you are just being obtuse. Oh that’s right, it hits when people go back inside, like it has two years in a row in the southeast without a vaccine and with a vaccine, just as it has in the north when we go back inside with or without a “vaccine. “ and when it goes down in February/March just like it Did last year, it will be credited to the vaccine. Cripes. https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccine+definition&oq=vaccine+def&aqs=chrome.0.0i131i433i512j69i57j0i512l7.5495j0j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease. "every year the flu vaccine is modified to deal with new strains of the virus" That's it. Simple. Even for you. Vaccines are meant to protect the body by sensitizing the immune system against an antigen (disease). How that effects transmission will be unknown and vary depending on the etiology of the virus/disease, and how quickly the immunized individual eliminates the antigen. WRT transmission, this is from July 2021:. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210720/Researchers-examine-the-effectiveness-of-the-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-vaccine-in-reducing-household-transmission.aspx "Additionally, the overall vaccine effectiveness against transmission (VET) was found to be 88.5%." This was known to drop against Delta, and most likely even moreso against Omicron, hence the wording on the CDC website. They have backed off because of the new variants. No one is denying what Fauci said. THE PROBLEM IS YOU REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID WAS TRUE AT THE TIME BUT HAS SINCE CHANGED WITH DELTA AND OMICRON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 14 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Now this is some poop all the for all who idolize the vaccine and its makers/enablers. I don’t have the time to verify all this today, but will over the next couple of days. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine August 23, 2021. Moderna followed. The entire reason vaccine mandates began in earnest. Classic tweetardation, congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GaryPinC said: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine August 23, 2021. Moderna followed. The entire reason vaccine mandates began in earnest. Classic tweetardation, congratulations. Jesus, you are denser than I thought. You argued the whole reason the vaccines were granted EAU was because they reduced severity of symptoms, they were never meant to confer immunity, that was just a by product. I asked you to find me one example of a vaccine that was not meant to confer immunity, and you post this . Quote a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity You do understand if I have immunity I ain’t transmitting the virus correct? And you prove my point. Thank you. This thing is not a vaccine. And again, you either did not read or do not understand the article I reported. Yes, Pfizer vaccine was approved, but it is a separate product from the vaccine that gained EAU and only the EAU vaccine is being used. Just do yourself a favor and READ!!!! If they use that product now without the approval for children, that are not shielded from liability laws. They are once approved for children. Why do you think Pfizer is so desperately testing a 3 shot regimen in kids under 5 that are statically zero risk? And btw Dippoop, Moderna has nut been authorized yet, it is still only being used under EAU. https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions https://www.cbs17.com/news/why-isnt-the-moderna-vaccine-fda-approved-but-pfizers-is/ Until about late August I was a massive believer in getting vaxed , but as data change and circumstances change, I allow my opinions to change. so go back to saying the vaccine was always designed to only limit symptoms to make ya feel better, as it seems believing everything the gov/ pharma tells you appears to give you the warm and snugglies Edited December 30, 2021 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan5121 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 This whole vaccine rollout has gone poorly in my mind. It started with suggesting the vaccine provides immunity and you won’t catch COVID. Once that was false, it then became about lessening the symptoms and reducing severe COVID. As others have said, the goal posts were moved. Now, my father in law, who has been compliant with every recommendation/mandate that has been implemented, vaxxed and boosted (and previously had COVID), has been sick all week and could barely move or get out of bed. People have said “imagine if he wasn’t vaccinated.” My question is, how does anyone know what he would be like if he wasn’t vaccinated? Are we just assuming his symptoms are less than they would have been? How does anyone know that? Why can’t the opposite be true? Why couldn’t he have handled it better without being vaccinated? At this point, I think two things need to happen to move us past this (well 3 things if you count moving forward with life regardless of COVID). 1: They have to stop calling this a vaccine. Right or wrong, calling it a vaccine implies immunity and an inability to contact the very thing you are vaccinating against. Perhaps in science this is not the case and they accept it doesn’t eliminate transmission, but this is the real world with normal people whose definition of a vaccine would include preventing transmission. Again, if that is wrong, so be it, but perception is reality in this case. Hesitancy comes from everyday people hearing a vaccine that still allows the vaccinated to carrry/transmit. In our mind, it does not work as intended and causes questions. 2. Fauci has to go. He’s lost public trust. In many’s eyes, he’s profited off the pandemic and money is the driving force in all he says. When the belief is you stand to gain financially, you can no longer be trusted to make decisions without bias. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, billsfan5121 said: This whole vaccine rollout has gone poorly in my mind. It started with suggesting the vaccine provides immunity and you won’t catch COVID. Once that was false, it then became about lessening the symptoms and reducing severe COVID. As others have said, the goal posts were moved. Now, my father in law, who has been compliant with every recommendation/mandate that has been implemented, vaxxed and boosted (and previously had COVID), has been sick all week and could barely move or get out of bed. People have said “imagine if he wasn’t vaccinated.” My question is, how does anyone know what he would be like if he wasn’t vaccinated? Are we just assuming his symptoms are less than they would have been? How does anyone know that? Why can’t the opposite be true? Why couldn’t he have handled it better without being vaccinated? At this point, I think two things need to happen to move us past this (well 3 things if you count moving forward with life regardless of COVID). 1: They have to stop calling this a vaccine. Right or wrong, calling it a vaccine implies immunity and an inability to contact the very thing you are vaccinating against. Perhaps in science this is not the case and they accept it doesn’t eliminate transmission, but this is the real world with normal people whose definition of a vaccine would include preventing transmission. Again, if that is wrong, so be it, but perception is reality in this case. Hesitancy comes from everyday people hearing a vaccine that still allows the vaccinated to carrry/transmit. In our mind, it does not work as intended and causes questions. 2. Fauci has to go. He’s lost public trust. In many’s eyes, he’s profited off the pandemic and money is the driving force in all he says. When the belief is you stand to gain financially, you can no longer be trusted to make decisions without bias. Post of the year! I could NOT have stated this any better. Very, very well summarized! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Big Blitz said: It's never been about science. It's tragic and sad so many have religiously followed these people. Never been about science, AND it’s never been about the virus, and achieving herd immunity... It’s about keeping the public so afraid that they will allow the government to continue to use authoritarian “emergency powers” to pass legislation they would not otherwise be able to pass through Congress... Just like Korea and Vietnam were proxy wars with the Soviet Union, the “Covid pandemic” is being used like a proxy war for a far bigger agenda of a bio-medical police state across the entire globe...and anyone who disagrees or disobeys will be sent detention camps (like NYS is currently trying to pass through its legislature)... This is it, man...this is where I draw my line in the sand...it doesn’t end with Covid- this is just the beginning and people need to wake up... Live free or die...there is no alternative for me...👍 Edited December 30, 2021 by JaCrispy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Never been about science, AND it’s never been about the virus, and achieving herd immunity... It’s about keeping the public so afraid that they will allow the government to continue to use authoritarian “emergency powers” to pass legislation they would not otherwise be able to pass through Congress... Just like Korea and Vietnam were proxy wars with the Soviet Union, the “Covid pandemic” is being used like a proxy war for a far bigger agenda of a bio-medical police state across the entire globe...and anyone who disagrees or disobeys will be sent detention camps (like NYS is currently trying to pass through its legislature)... This is it, man...this is where I draw my line in the sand...it doesn’t end with Covid- this is just the beginning and people need to wake up... Live free or die...there is no alternative for me...👍 NYS is trying to do what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Never been about science, AND it’s never been about the virus, and achieving herd immunity... It’s about keeping the public so afraid that they will allow the government to continue to use authoritarian “emergency powers” to pass legislation they would not otherwise be able to pass through Congress... Just like Korea and Vietnam were proxy wars with the Soviet Union, the “Covid pandemic” is being used like a proxy war for a far bigger agenda of a bio-medical police state across the entire globe...and anyone who disagrees or disobeys will be sent detention camps (like NYS is currently trying to pass through its legislature)... This is it, man...this is where I draw my line in the sand...it doesn’t end with Covid- this is just the beginning and people need to wake up... Live free or die...there is no alternative for me...👍 It's your life do what you have to do , I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: NYS is trying to do what? It's a bill that's been introduced a few times by Assemblyman Perry since 2015 or so. Never made it out of committee and now that it's been brought significant attention Perry has withdrawn it. I think initially it had something to do with Ebola. But it would have allowed DOH Commissioner or the Governor to order the detention of an individual with a disease that could threaten the public health. Edited December 30, 2021 by LeviF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: NYS is trying to do what? The part about the detention facilities starts around 5:00... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, GaryPinC said: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine August 23, 2021. Moderna followed. The entire reason vaccine mandates began in earnest. Classic tweetardation, congratulations. The claim is not that there is no FDA-approved vaccine. You didn't read it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBills Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 hours ago, ALF said: It's insane to fire healthcare workers for not being vaccinated. They have survived the last 2 years using the best protection and practices. I accept this argument, of course. And I'm not making this personal or anything, but haven't you been siding with and advocating for almost every other policy that eventually led to this absurd situation in the first place? Which many of us have been saying shouldn't be happening? My only point is that everything is a narrative, and you can't erupt in dismay at something that is at the end of a series of horrible policies/decisions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, LeviF said: It's a bill that's been introduced a few times by Assemblyman Perry since 2015 or so. Never made it out of committee and now that it's been brought significant attention Perry has withdrawn it. I think initially it had something to do with Ebola. But it would have allowed DOH Commissioner or the Governor to order the detention of an individual with a disease that could threaten the public health. When I saw that bill referenced on a website, I went to the senate website to read the bill. I then posted a link in one of these threads. The generally amiable @Doc Brown suggested I research the history of the bill, including that it never made it out of committee. I responded, as I generally try to do, and remain uncertain as to why it's incumbent on me to consider and disregard the language contained in that bill. I've revisited it a few times, and still walk away thinking how ominous the language actually is. If it were to become law, it would make a great premise for a futuristic sci-fi flick. It was humorous on some level as well, give than while the appropriately empowered individuals might hustle you off to a detention center, and might be able to let your family or friends know (if feasible) and maybe provide access to representation (again, if feasible), there were limitations. Turns out while you could be held for 60 days, then reupped again for another slug perpetually, nothing was going to happen on a Saturday, Sunday or holiday--days of rest for those running the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: When I saw that bill referenced on a website, I went to the senate website to read the bill. I then posted a link in one of these threads. The generally amiable @Doc Brown suggested I research the history of the bill, including that it never made it out of committee. I responded, as I generally try to do, and remain uncertain as to why it's incumbent on me to consider and disregard the language contained in that bill. I've revisited it a few times, and still walk away thinking how ominous the language actually is. If it were to become law, it would make a great premise for a futuristic sci-fi flick. It was humorous on some level as well, give than while the appropriately empowered individuals might hustle you off to a detention center, and might be able to let your family or friends know (if feasible) and maybe provide access to representation (again, if feasible), there were limitations. Turns out while you could be held for 60 days, then reupped again for another slug perpetually, nothing was going to happen on a Saturday, Sunday or holiday--days of rest for those running the game. Well yes, it’s insane, and the fact that that sort of thing is introduced is also insane. Context matters regardless of sanity which is why I pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, LeviF said: Well yes, it’s insane, and the fact that that sort of thing is introduced is also insane. Context matters regardless of sanity which is why I pointed it out. Agreed--and just a point of emphasis. If we were to have a wild-eyed crazy running around infected with ebola, I'd bet many folks would line up behind a law allowing the man to target/acquire/detain the infected. The unintended consequence of the erosion of civil liberties here and the very broad language is very troubling indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Agreed--and just a point of emphasis. If we were to have a wild-eyed crazy running around infected with ebola, I'd bet many folks would line up behind a law allowing the man to target/acquire/detain the infected. The unintended consequence of the erosion of civil liberties here and the very broad language is very troubling indeed. Unfortunately, if someone was infecting people with ebola, it would just be politicized: If the GOP were in power and detained Ebola man, the Dems would say the GOP was racist, xenophobic, anti-(insert and any discrimantory category here). If the Dems were in power and detained Ebola man, the GOP would say the Dems were instituting overreaching, Marxist government control. And a bunch of people would be dead. That's how bad it's gotten. What a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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