Orlando Buffalo Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 7 hours ago, ALF said: 728,000 deaths in the US so far is a real tragedy that should be less with vaccines . The stress and cost to hospitals should be less if people were vaccinated. Why does a physically fit 18 year old need the vaccine when he has a literally a 1 in a 100k chance of being hospitalized from Covid? Vaping is much more deadly for those under 25 but I don't see anyone pushing that as being banned? There will not be any bad long term consequences to a person except loss of freedom. Your willingness to take away someone's freedoms because of your paranoia is astounding.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Or how about this one...you’re mandated to share your home with drug addicted homeless people to help get them off the streets...if you don’t, it’s because you don’t care about other people...do you comply or do you risk the state taking your house all together... Where does it end? Answer: it doesn’t, because people continue to comply... Remember, doctors and hospitals were monetarily incentivized to inflate the data to make the virus seem worse than it was- to justify state mandates...That’s why, when there are number corrections, they’re always subtracting from the original totals...😉 Joe Rogan proved the media has been lying to us when he got CNN’s Sanje Gupta to admit as much...”They shouldn’t have said that..” stated Gupta, about his own network...unvaccinated kids have a hire rate of survival than a middle aged vaccinated man, and yet they are trying to force the vaccine on kids...🤣 It’s not about the virus!!! Wake up, people...stop being such soft sheep... 55 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'd like to understand from the mandate advocates here what checks and balances exist after all this that prevents the government and their corporate accomplishes from forcing you to do or not do anything and everything they want? Because its not the process of democracy. Its not the courts, Its not liberal or conservative leaders running Federal, State, or local governments. Its not your employer or your fellow employees. And it doesn't appear that the Constitution or Bill of Rights is in effect here either. So what's to stop them from mandating anything? Who is going to stop them if it isn't the people themselves? Maybe the Governor doesn't like Blue shirts. Or large SUV's. It could be anything. Its not about resisting the vaccine. Its about defending personal choice and freedoms. Its not about protecting you from the unwashed plebs that make a personal choice. And if you really believe the vaccine protects you then why are you afraid of them? If you believe the "safe and effective" mantra then they can't harm you. Its about the security state and gaining the voluntary compliance of the public to exchange their rights and freedoms for safety and security. The problem is the exchange is not equitable. The freedoms surrendered are real. But the safety and security are an illusion. Because the security state has no interests in your personal safety or security. Its interest is in protecting itself and acquiring more power and control at your expense. Why so many are blind to this is a testament to the power they already hold. This control is even reflected in propaganda communicated through popular culture network TV shows depicting the gallant and heroic members of organizations like the FBI risking life and limb to save the public from all kinds of threats real and imaged on a weekly basis. In reality it borders on comedy and the truth is something entirely different. When I see the network promos during the football games on Sunday I LMAO at it. Its all utterly ridiculous. I listened to an interesting podcast the other day that suggested part of the downside of the erosion of conventional religions is that there are masses in need of some authority to tell them how to live. While many wish to be independent, and make their own personal choices, a vast swath of the population want to be controlled and have all facets of their existence prescribed. They’ll fight tooth and nail to defend the omnipotent state authority because that’s what they need and believe in. it’s a mentality free thinkers can’t understand, but which tends to underpin the two parties extremes. I chose to get vaccinated but view it more as a personal decision which everyone needs to understand and make themselves. The biggest question for me was not generally efficacy of vaccines which I consider well vetted, but the absolute dearth of long term studies on the specific vaccine technologies used for the 3 domestically approved vaccines. 2
ALF Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 25 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Why does a physically fit 18 year old need the vaccine when he has a literally a 1 in a 100k chance of being hospitalized from Covid? Vaping is much more deadly for those under 25 but I don't see anyone pushing that as being banned? There will not be any bad long term consequences to a person except loss of freedom. Your willingness to take away someone's freedoms because of your paranoia is astounding. Don't complain about the effects of covid like shortage of goods , high inflation , worker shortage , stressed hospital systems , higher healthcare premiums , a lot less daycare, high energy prices not to mention the deaths and suffering.
Orlando Buffalo Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, ALF said: Don't complain about the effects of covid like shortage of goods , high inflation , worker shortage , stressed hospital systems , higher healthcare premiums , a lot less daycare, high energy prices not to mention the deaths and suffering. Do you work for Biden? The Covid problems of higher costs is from Bidens incompetence, these problems were getting better last December but Biden made each one worse through his plans. The vaccine is not the cure-all you are pretending it is and your taking away freedoms makes you the villain in the history books. 1 1 1
ALF Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Do you work for Biden? The Covid problems of higher costs is from Bidens incompetence, these problems were getting better last December but Biden made each one worse through his plans. The vaccine is not the cure-all you are pretending it is and your taking away freedoms makes you the villain in the history books. I didn't vote for Biden , don't like his polices , dislike Trump even more . I do like Joe Manchin and Liz Cheney fwiw
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Do you work for Biden? The Covid problems of higher costs is from Bidens incompetence, these problems were getting better last December but Biden made each one worse through his plans. The vaccine is not the cure-all you are pretending it is and your taking away freedoms makes you the villain in the history books. I can't accept the idea that anyone can be this incompetent and clueless so the logical conclusion is they are screwing everything up by design. You listen to what Psaki says in these WH press briefings everyday. She's lying her ass off and she knows it, the press knows it, and the public knows it. And at some point they will say everything bad that is happening is because the "old" ways of doing things just don't work any more. And what we've been doing has been in response to those failures. And a new "vision" is needed going forward. Manufacture a crisis to produce the needs for a solution. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted October 20, 2021 Author Posted October 20, 2021 Humans are just awful at risk assessment. Look at this explanation: “In an interview, Ms. Williams cited a lack of longer-term research on the vaccines’ potential effects. She said that if she got vaccinated and then struggled to conceive, miscarried, or had a child with birth defects, she would always wonder whether the shots caused the problems. “I can’t live with that,” she said. “I can’t live with going through a miscarriage and wondering if it’s because I got an injection to keep my job.” The CDC has said no link has been found between the shots and miscarriage or fertility problems.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/espn-reporter-allison-williams-quits-over-vaccine-mandate-fertility-concerns-many-share-her-fears-11634664260?st=mgcor3pxhc8xtzx&reflink=article_copyURL_share [may be a paywalled link!]
Boatdrinks Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, ALF said: Don't complain about the effects of covid like shortage of goods , high inflation , worker shortage , stressed hospital systems , higher healthcare premiums , a lot less daycare, high energy prices not to mention the deaths and suffering. Again, most of these are the effects of government overreach, overreaction , restrictions and sheer laziness of people who’ve received free money. Not the effects of Covid , which 99.5 % of people will recover from and has caused virtually zero child deaths statistically. Democrat government officials in the US have hijacked the virus to accomplish an authoritarian leftist agenda through fear and sheer hatred of those who will not “comply” with their demands. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Manufacture a crisis to produce the needs for a solution. Winner winner chicken dinner… War on heart disease war on tobacco war on crime war on drugs war on poverty war on terror war on climate change war on _______ it’s a siren song of the lemmings… Fear leads to power 1 1
Boatdrinks Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Humans are just awful at risk assessment. Look at this explanation: “In an interview, Ms. Williams cited a lack of longer-term research on the vaccines’ potential effects. She said that if she got vaccinated and then struggled to conceive, miscarried, or had a child with birth defects, she would always wonder whether the shots caused the problems. “I can’t live with that,” she said. “I can’t live with going through a miscarriage and wondering if it’s because I got an injection to keep my job.” The CDC has said no link has been found between the shots and miscarriage or fertility problems.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/espn-reporter-allison-williams-quits-over-vaccine-mandate-fertility-concerns-many-share-her-fears-11634664260?st=mgcor3pxhc8xtzx&reflink=article_copyURL_share [may be a paywalled link!] If after 5 years of clinical trials there was “ no link” found, many people would be more accepting that the vaccines are safe. There have been medicines thought safe that were later established to cause cancer etc. The CDC has established that they are a woke joke, especially under the Dems. All the overreaction to Covid , however is a fine example of the fact that many assess risk very poorly. Live your life and forget the liberal control messages. You’re not going to die of Covid. 33 minutes ago, ALF said: I didn't vote for Biden , don't like his polices , dislike Trump even more . I do like Joe Manchin and Liz Cheney fwiw Only extreme mental gymnastics can have one claiming to not like Biden’s policies yet disliking Trump “even more”. Or you simply hate America as founded and believe it must be drastically changed to become acceptable.
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Winner winner chicken dinner… War on heart disease war on tobacco war on crime war on drugs war on poverty war on terror war on climate change war on _______ it’s a siren song of the lemmings… Fear leads to power We already lost the war on climate change. According to AOC there’s less than 7 years left now! 1 1 1
ALF Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Only extreme mental gymnastics can have one claiming to not like Biden’s policies yet disliking Trump “even more”. Or you simply hate America as founded and believe it must be drastically changed to become acceptable. I was always a Independent till 1/6 then switched to Democrat just to give Trump a one finger salute. I'm a realistic moderate who wants a bipartisan government . That will never happen after Trump. The government is what it is , my one vote or opinion doesn't mean a damn thing. I wrote in John Kasich in 2020.
B-Man Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 Hooray for common sense ! Follow the Science! Hospitals Accept Natural Immunity as Reason for Staff to Defer Mandated Vaccine by Athena Thorne Following a growing trend, several Ohio hospitals are allowing staff who have already recovered from COVID-19 infections to defer their mandated vaccines. Premier Health, Kettering Health and the Dayton Children’s Hospital networks have all set a December 1 deadline for workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19, and all three networks are now accepting proof of natural immunity as a reason to defer compliance. “Natural immunity” refers to testing positive for coronavirus-targeting antibodies following a COVID-19 infection. “This pathway was created because there is evidence that there is protection that arises from a previous infection,” explained Dr. Roberto Colón, chief medical officer at Miami Valley Hospital. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2021/10/19/hospitals-follow-the-science-accept-natural-immunity-as-reason-to-defer-vaccine-mandates-n1525108 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Humans are just awful at risk assessment. Look at this explanation: “In an interview, Ms. Williams cited a lack of longer-term research on the vaccines’ potential effects. She said that if she got vaccinated and then struggled to conceive, miscarried, or had a child with birth defects, she would always wonder whether the shots caused the problems. “I can’t live with that,” she said. “I can’t live with going through a miscarriage and wondering if it’s because I got an injection to keep my job.” The CDC has said no link has been found between the shots and miscarriage or fertility problems.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/espn-reporter-allison-williams-quits-over-vaccine-mandate-fertility-concerns-many-share-her-fears-11634664260?st=mgcor3pxhc8xtzx&reflink=article_copyURL_share [may be a paywalled link!] You can accept, avoid, or mitigate a risk. But first you need to understand and acknowledge the risk, quantify the risk, and define alternatives to the risk situation. None of this is possible when assessing long term risks to a vaccine with no long term use profile. So the other side of the coin is health and political officials have flippantly dismissed any and all concerns expressed about potential long term risks. In reality all they can truthfully and factually say is "specific to the COVID vaccines we don't know the long term risks or adverse impacts". But they claim expert status and claim to know the unknowable. That there is little to no long term risk. Most people objectively assessing the risk to themselves know they're full of crap.
The Frankish Reich Posted October 20, 2021 Author Posted October 20, 2021 32 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: You can accept, avoid, or mitigate a risk. But first you need to understand and acknowledge the risk, quantify the risk, and define alternatives to the risk situation. None of this is possible when assessing long term risks to a vaccine with no long term use profile. So the other side of the coin is health and political officials have flippantly dismissed any and all concerns expressed about potential long term risks. In reality all they can truthfully and factually say is "specific to the COVID vaccines we don't know the long term risks or adverse impacts". But they claim expert status and claim to know the unknowable. That there is little to no long term risk. Most people objectively assessing the risk to themselves know they're full of crap. You don’t realize it, but you’re proving my point. Risks of COVID vaccine: coming up on one year if intensely monitored/studied results. Excellent efficacy, typically very minor side effects if any, exceedingly rare more serious side effects. Unknown if there are very long term side effects, but no rational basis to expect those. Risks of getting COVID (here, in relation to 37 year old hoping to get pregnant and avoid health risks to herself/her baby): significant risk of contracting COVID (she will be in clinics and hospitals a lot if she gets pregnant), small risk of having a serious case, smaller but not insignificant risk of serious complications that may cause her to lose her baby, no rational reason to believe that a vaccine will lessen her fertility or cause harm to a future baby. And her decision making process is purely emotional, not rational: - if I TAKE an action (getting vaccinated) and I can’t get pregnant or can’t carry a healthy child to birth, I will forever be kicking myself over getting the vaccine. - if I REFUSE to take an affirmative action (and don’t get the vaccine) and then get COVID, resulting in an inability to get pregnant or carry a healthy child to term, well, then I guess that was just the Will of God; I won’t forever blame myself for my decision not to get Vaccinated. It’s flawed thinking, it’s purely emotion based (how will I FEEL about it if things go wrong?), and it is exactly what you and this poor woman are doing. (I’ll leave aside for the moment the question whether there is something more feminine about this type of thinking. Draw your own conclusions)
Big Blitz Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 Delta variant ‘descendant’ hits Israel – is it time to panic? https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/delta-variant-descendant-hits-israel-is-it-time-to-panic-682575
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, ALF said: I was always a Independent till 1/6 then switched to Democrat just to give Trump a one finger salute. I'm a realistic moderate who wants a bipartisan government . That will never happen after Trump. The government is what it is , my one vote or opinion doesn't mean a damn thing. I wrote in John Kasich in 2020. So you were fine when the Democrats boycotted Trumps inauguration? That was just part of The Process to you? You were fine when the Congress impeached the President for daring to ask a foreign government about corruption? That was just part of The Process to you? You were fine when Nancy tore up the State of the Union address inside the Capitol Building? That was part of The Process to you? But when a guy dressed as grizzly bear enters the Capitol AGAINST the admonishment of the President….that’s when we’ve crossed your line of decorum? Good to know! 1
JaCrispy Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) My wife’s job is now requiring vaccination...she just recovered from covid a month ago and works from home- but nobody seems to care...this is not about the virus... Welcome to the rebellion! 👍 Edited October 20, 2021 by JaCrispy 1
TSOL Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-lay-out-plan-vaccinate-kids-ages-5-11-nbc-news-2021-10-20/ I dissent 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 3 hours ago, ALF said: I was always a Independent till 1/6 then switched to Democrat just to give Trump a one finger salute. I'm a realistic moderate who wants a bipartisan government . That will never happen after Trump. The government is what it is , my one vote or opinion doesn't mean a damn thing. I wrote in John Kasich in 2020. You allowed one man's behavior to make you change your principals? I can't relate, I don't like Trump but I prefer an America first policy 1
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