It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[JaCrispy]

42 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The core issue with the mandates has nothing to do with science.  It's politicians and bureaucrats that are co-opting science and medicine and selectively using it (while ignoring science that doesn't support their positions) as a pretext for issuing all kinds of draconian edicts and imposing multi-tiered social restrictions and increasing levels of authoritarian rule.  And instituting some "collective" social doctrine that just doesn't exist in our system of laws and constitutional protections of the individual.  Does anyone believe these restrictions are going to go away with the COVID pandemic ending? 

 

And in the process they have done great damage to the credibility and effectiveness of science and the medical community.  The result is a large percentage of the population, some that were already distrustful, don't believe much of what is passed off as science.  Especially when so much effort is made to suppress and silence ideas and experts that express views and insights that contradict the prevailing narrative.  "Vaccines are safe and effective".  So shut up and stop bringing up any other facts or ideas.  Just do what we say or else.  Under that context why trust the science? 

 

Look at how they totally trashed Ivermectin.  What's the motivation for that?  Its not science I can say for sure.  Does it work for COVID?  Personally I can't say but there is little doubt from officials in India that it was the "cure" that suppressed their Delta outbreak.  But in the US its "horse de-wormer".  Never mind its an approved FDA drug for several serious indications in humans.  The suspicion this all creates is anything that's cheap, plentiful, and effective is a threat to the vaccine mandate and the people running policy.  So the science gets trashed. 

 

The problem isn't the vaxed or the unvaxed, its the politicians ruining science and medicine for their own objectives and their suspension of the free thinking process of discovery through the scientific method.  That's our common enemy - ignorance generated by politicians.

 

Brilliantly said...and I agree 100%

 

I’ve always said it’s the lying and censorship of information, by the government, big tech, and Fauci, that is making people vaccine hesitant...

 

People are feeling that there is an ulterior motive why they are suppressing other remedies that have been shown to work...it’s people’s gut instinct, that things are not adding up...

 

And now, the threats to people’s livelihoods, especially healthcare workers- when we already had shortages, is only adding fuel to the fire...👍

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And the rage continues day after day after day. Have any of you noticed that you’ve not changed a SINGLE opinion? Like most people on here I’ve been fully vaccinated for months. For goodness sake’s we do NOT have a vaccine problem. We have a messaging problem! And the people who claim to be in charge have done a flat out horrible job of adapting the message. It’s time to get to fricking work Joe! It’s not as easy it looks sitting on some worthless Senate committee for decades on end questioning and overseeing other people. You’re in the big chair now Joe! You’re the one actually responsible for shaping AND delivering the message….and you clearly suck at it!

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells people to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

Edited October 10, 2021 by oldmanfan

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells ripple to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

First…get rid of Fauchi…TODAY! He is the poster child for the messaging problem.

Second…re-establish a science and data based regular reporting on the status of the pandemic. You cannot leave your messaging to CNN! 
Third, if you’re going to mandate vaccines…JUST DO IT!!! Getting up there every couple of weeks and threatening your own citizens is making you look ridiculous. 
Fourth…get to work! You can’t control a pandemic from your basement. If the American people see the President spending more time surrendering in Afghanistan and worrying about climate change and a massive spending Bill, do you not think they get the idea that you don’t yourself think the pandemic isn’t the number one focus?

 

And those are right off the top of my head on a Sunday morning.

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

First…get rid of Fauchi…TODAY! He is the poster child for the messaging problem.

Second…re-establish a science and data based regular reporting on the status of the pandemic. You cannot leave your messaging to CNN! 
Third, if you’re going to mandate vaccines…JUST DO IT!!! Getting up there every couple of weeks and threatening your own citizens is making you look ridiculous. 
Fourth…get to work! You can’t control a pandemic from your basement. If the American people see the President spending more time surrendering in Afghanistan and worrying about climate change and a massive spending Bill, do you not think they get the idea that you don’t yourself think the pandemic isn’t the number one focus?

 

And those are right off the top of my head on a Sunday morning.

 

I agree with 2 and 3.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I agree with 2 and 3.

Thats why we work so well together! I find it interesting though that you don’t agree with #1. Fauci is the single biggest problem. If Joe really wants to change the messaging you HAVE TO change the messenger. He has to go.

[JaCrispy]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thats why we work so well together! I find it interesting though that you don’t agree with #1. Fauci is the single biggest problem. If Joe really wants to change the messaging you HAVE TO change the messenger. He has to go.

Yup...and Fauci has already admitted, several times, that he has lied about masks and herd immunity, among other things...furthermore, his leaked emails have caused his credibility to be shot among most of the public...

Edited October 10, 2021 by JaCrispy

[oldmanfan]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Yup...and Fauci has already admitted, several times, that he has lied about masks and herd immunity, among other things...his credibility is shot among most of the public...

He did not lie about masks and this has been debunked numerous times.  When the pandemic first started he said the public should not wear masks because masks should be kept for health care workers.  As more data became available as to how different types of masks could mitigate the spread of droplets, he said so.

 

One of the most frustrating things for me with the pandemic is that so many people do not understand how science works.  Or more accurately understand but willfully deny.  As more research is done and more data is obtained you change your theories.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells people to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

Edited October 10, 2021 by oldmanfan

[JaCrispy]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He did not lie about masks and this has been debunked numerous times.  When the pandemic first started he said the public should not wear masks because masks should be kept for health care workers.  As more data became available as to how different types of masks could mitigate the spread of droplets, he said so.

 

One of the most frustrating things for me with the pandemic is that so many people do not understand how science works.  Or more accurately understand but willfully deny.  As more research is done and more data is obtained you change your theories.

I’m sorry Oldman...I respect you as a poster because I believe you are genuine in your posts, unlike some other posters...

 

But I have to admit, that you’re greatly mistaken about Fauci lying about masks- and here he is actually admitting it...

 

By the way, for the record, Jimmy Dore is a leftist progressive, who supports Bernie Sanders’ policies,  just so you don’t think he is some MAGA right winger...👍

Edited October 10, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Orlando Buffalo]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

Are you stating that you think the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone who is eligible? I might have missed something in a transition

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Are you stating that you think the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone who is eligible? I might have missed something in a transition

I asked SoCalDeek what he would do if he were Biden since he keeps criticizing him, and that is what he said.  So I agreed.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

I guess I misunderstood your earlier post.  I read “What exactly should he do” and he told people, they don’t listen (my words, not yours) as a giant shoulder shrug.  
 

You generally don’t strike me as a shoulder shrug guy.  You’ve absolutely been vocal about your thoughts and beliefs on this subject, and a few of your responses might be considered by some to be extreme.   I recognize that those times might have been due to frustration, or emotional investment due to your life’s work, but I don’t sense that same passion with Biden.  
 

He’s the Commander-in-Chief, and beyond the occasional “Grandpa knows best” appearance under tightly controlled circumstances he’s AWOL  while the infection rages.  Honestly, I’d have thought you would call for his resignation.  
 

On the flip side, it’s clear you’re passionate about the country and your fellow citizens, so I would have been stunned if you did not express outrage at his handling of Afghanistan.  He had so many options to pursue and it appears he chose the one specifically that would result in maximum  death, injury and chaos.  It’s almost like he wants the problems there so at some future point, the US can intervene again.   

Edited October 10, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[All_Pro_Bills]

57 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

I'd argue making the vaccine "mandatory" through direct government edict vs. the current approach to force the private sector to act as a government "proxy" in the enforcement of the order raises a couple questions.  One is the Constitutionality of the mandate.  The Constitutional questions have been discussed here and elsewhere already. 

But the second, and perhaps the most interesting, is the requirement to prove necessity of the order.  I'd expect the objecting legal team and the court would demand the government disclose (as a matter of standard legal practice) all their evidence.  Show me all your data, conclusions, arguments pro & con, and expert opinions and assessments for and against the mandate in an open and public court of law setting for all to see and hear.  Justify scientifically and medically that COVID is such a great public health risk that it requires a vaccine mandate for the entire population.  Prove its necessary and the mandate is justified by the risk.  The truth and nothing but the whole truth.  Frankly I would welcome this opportunity to hear all views without censorship, without pre-judgment, without prejudice.  But my question to all this is this.  Do you thing the political establishment feels the same way?  Do they want to air all their laundry out there in the yard for everyone to see.  What if all the data taken together shows the virus isn't as big a risk as they're making it to be? What then?  Who's going to explain all of that to the public?  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'd argue making the vaccine "mandatory" through direct government edict vs. the current approach to force the private sector to act as a government "proxy" in the enforcement of the order raises a couple questions.  One is the Constitutionality of the mandate.  The Constitutional questions have been discussed here and elsewhere already. 

But the second, and perhaps the most interesting, is the requirement to prove necessity of the order.  I'd expect the objecting legal team and the court would demand the government disclose (as a matter of standard legal practice) all their evidence.  Show me all your data, conclusions, arguments pro & con, and expert opinions and assessments for and against the mandate in an open and public court of law setting for all to see and hear.  Justify scientifically and medically that COVID is such a great public health risk that it requires a vaccine mandate for the entire population.  Prove its necessary and the mandate is justified by the risk.  The truth and nothing but the whole truth.  Frankly I would welcome this opportunity to hear all views without censorship, without pre-judgment, without prejudice.  But my question to all this is this.  Do you thing the political establishment feels the same way?  Do they want to air all their laundry out there in the yard for everyone to see.  What if all the data taken together shows the virus isn't as big a risk as they're making it to be? What then?  Who's going to explain all of that to the public?  

I feel like I win the occasional internet argument but this much is certain, my wife is undefeated in shaming me into yard work or putting the patio furniture away in a timely fashion over the last 36 years.  
 

More on this later.  You’re on to something here. 

[B-Man]

 

We can’t help but notice the media didn’t cover the sickout with the airlines. Hrm.

 

Hardly a peep and then when it was finally discussed it was about a staffing shortage.

 

No mention of the sickout.

 

And then Southwest Airlines, who allegedly was impacted the most, tweeted that it was ATC issues and disruptive weather.

 

Huh.

 

 

 

 

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/10/10/gosh-it-looks-like-southwest-airlines-may-have-tried-to-cover-up-the-massive-anti-mandate-sickout-that-impacted-1000-flights/

 

 

[B-Man]

 

I’VE SEEN THE LOCKDOWN AND THE DAMAGE DONE: 

 

Study confirms rise in child abuse during COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

“There was a great deal of economic stress, job insecurity, and loss of housing potential during this time frame along with the closing of schools, which can be a reprieve for parents and kids.” These weren’t consequences of Covid, they were consequences of the response to Covid.

 

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/10/09/covid19-child-abuse-spike/8831633724675/

 

 

 

Excess deaths in people with mental health conditions increased during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

Note that they improved as lockdowns eased.

 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-excess-deaths-people-mental-health.html

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

For those who insist on government mandates , I’d propose that a vaccine mandate be issued for those who are at high risk for Covid complications : ie Obese, diabetic , cardio issues etc. Mandate the vaccine and a stringent diet/ exercise program for them. No mitigation requirements for anyone else. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

We can’t help but notice the media didn’t cover the sickout with the airlines. Hrm.

 

Hardly a peep and then when it was finally discussed it was about a staffing shortage.

 

No mention of the sickout.

 

And then Southwest Airlines, who allegedly was impacted the most, tweeted that it was ATC issues and disruptive weather.

 

Huh.

 

 

 

 

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/10/10/gosh-it-looks-like-southwest-airlines-may-have-tried-to-cover-up-the-massive-anti-mandate-sickout-that-impacted-1000-flights/

 

 

Pilots and other employees are protesting the COVID vaccine mandates.  Once again the media refuses to tell the truth and confirming they are less than useless.

 

Curious how this catches on elsewhere.  Possibly trucker strikes from organized Teamsters, FedEx, USP workers.  Utility crews staying home.  And others.  I hope Biden and Fauci and their mandate crew are good at climbing poles and driving 18-wheelers (incidentally one of the many blue collar skills Joe claims to have).  Workers are telling their employers and the government what they think about the mandate.  Basically F U.  You want mandates?  Well, we're going to shut the system down.  What are you going to do about it?  Fly the planes, drive the trucks, unload and load the ships, keep the lights and water on?  Power to the people!     

[Big Blitz]

Fauci: COVID cases must go ‘way down’ before vaxxed Americans can ditch masks indoors

 

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday said COVID-19 cases would need to go “way down” before most vaccinated Americans can safely gather publicly indoors without masks.

 

“It’s about 95,000 [cases nationwide per day] as the seven-day average. That’s still way too high,’ Fauci told CNN’s “State of the Union” when asked what the threshold would have to be to ease the CDC’s indoor-mask recommendation for even most vaccinated people.

 

“We want to get way, way down to … I mean, I like to see it well below 10,000 [cases per day] and even much lower than that,” he said.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/10/10/fauci-covid-cases-must-go-way-down-to-adjust-mask-mandates/

 

 

That's never ever going to happen....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And what is that # based on?  What about state by state?  

 

Dupes.  All of you