leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Medicine is about benefit vs. risk. The math indicates that even ion younger people the risk of getting Covid far outweighs any risk with the vaccine. Big picture, maybe or if you prefer, sure. On an individual level, the risk-reward analysis usually boils down to “What’s in it for me?”. If I was a younger man, I cannot say with certainty that I would not consider the relative risk of getting COVID, the significant likelihood of a mild case/complete recovery and/or being asymptomatic, the relative risk of developing a heart condition from a vaccine (or dying from the virus) and simply deciding “F it, I’ll get vaxxed because some old guy told me I should.”. Hell, I did it as an oldster. When I factor in all the noise that has gone along with the virus and the vax, the latest “Moderna may not be all we thought it was—sorry!” the complicated and often hypocritical evolution of pandemic management and the death and suffering we see now amongst the Vaxxed, I’d be even less inclined to trust without question and take my chances, which we probably both agree are heavily in my favor either way.
Sundancer Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: I don’t doubt that it is to you. It is NOT that to the people in charge. Sorry to have to burst your bubble. Where are they holding the meetings on this grand conspiracy and who are the "people in charge" at the moment? 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Big picture, maybe or if you prefer, sure. On an individual level, the risk-reward analysis usually boils down to “What’s in it for me?”. If I was a younger man, I cannot say with certainty that I would not consider the relative risk of getting COVID, the significant likelihood of a mild case/complete recovery and/or being asymptomatic, the relative risk of developing a heart condition from a vaccine (or dying from the virus) and simply deciding “F it, I’ll get vaxxed because some old guy told me I should.”. Hell, I did it as an oldster. When I factor in all the noise that has gone along with the virus and the vax, the latest “Moderna may not be all we thought it was—sorry!” the complicated and often hypocritical evolution of pandemic management and the death and suffering we see now amongst the Vaxxed, I’d be even less inclined to trust without question and take my chances, which we probably both agree are heavily in my favor either way. The rebel B-Man was celebrating works as an anesthesiologist for Pete's sake. "Not vaccinated, good bye" makes sense to me if I run a health system. Imagine you get covid from one of your treating doctors when you're an at-risk person. Hospital workers should be getting triple boosted! Edited October 7, 2021 by Sundancer
B-Man Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Sundancer said: The rebel B-Man was celebrating works as an anesthesiologist for Pete's sake. Not vaccinated, good bye makes sense to me. Imagine you get covid from one of your treating doctors when you're an at risk person. Hospital workers should be getting triple boosted! No. They should not. and as someone who worked in the Medical field for over forty years, direct patient care, I know hundreds of experienced doctors and nurses who think the same way. You should be aware of this: if an "at risk" person is in the hospital, they are put in a protocol to protect them from ALL types of risks, not just covid. We have been doing this for decades. You don't need EVERY vaccine out there to treat people. Sheez. Smart lady Edited October 7, 2021 by B-Man
Orlando Buffalo Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: And the risks from the vaccine are way lower. That is the point. And you're ignoring the fact that to fight a global pandemic the more people of all ages vaccinated the lower the number of hosts for the virus to replicate. The fact that you think this vaccine will matter in the long term variants of Covid means you are not a big picture guy at all. Also my son has a much higher chance of the vaccine causing him issues than he does of Covid causing any long term problems.
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The fact that you think this vaccine will matter in the long term variants of Covid means you are not a big picture guy at all. Also my son has a much higher chance of the vaccine causing him issues than he does of Covid causing any long term problems. Your last sentence is a flat out lie. The total population of individuals 15-30 in the US is about 80 million, and according to the CDC there have been 4000 deaths from Covid in that age group. So that’s about 0.005 %. Data is known for the only significant complication associated with the vaccine that appears to affect the younger population, myocarditis. The incidence of that post-vaccination was 0.00017 percent and of those a handful of them resulted in death with most resolving spontaneously. So there is at least a 50 fold greater risk of dying from Covid in that age group vs. the one known complication in that age group. There are mild side effects such as muscle soreness and stuff, but if you’re going to include those in your chances of a son having issues above what Covid would cause then you’re a hopeless case. Plus I’m only talking about mortality in that age group and not morbidities, for which we’re only scratching the surface of currently. Edited October 7, 2021 by oldmanfan
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, B-Man said: No. They should not. and as someone who worked in the Medical field for over forty years, direct patient care, I know hundreds of experienced doctors and nurses who think the same way. You should be aware of this: if an "at risk" person is in the hospital, they are put in a protocol to protect them from ALL types of risks, not just covid. We have been doing this for decades. You don't need EVERY vaccine out there to treat people. Sheez. Smart lady I know hundreds personally that think they’ and you are crazy and since 90% or more of health care workers are vaccinated across the country they apparently agree. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Big picture, maybe or if you prefer, sure. On an individual level, the risk-reward analysis usually boils down to “What’s in it for me?”. If I was a younger man, I cannot say with certainty that I would not consider the relative risk of getting COVID, the significant likelihood of a mild case/complete recovery and/or being asymptomatic, the relative risk of developing a heart condition from a vaccine (or dying from the virus) and simply deciding “F it, I’ll get vaxxed because some old guy told me I should.”. Hell, I did it as an oldster. When I factor in all the noise that has gone along with the virus and the vax, the latest “Moderna may not be all we thought it was—sorry!” the complicated and often hypocritical evolution of pandemic management and the death and suffering we see now amongst the Vaxxed, I’d be even less inclined to trust without question and take my chances, which we probably both agree are heavily in my favor either way. Well this is the issue, isn’t it? Is it about the individual or about the society? A global pandemic hits and people ask what’s in it for me, rather than how can I help my neighbor. Your last paragraph speaks volumes. The mortality rate among vaccinated is at least 10 fold lower than unvaccinated, hospitalization rates are much higher with the unvaccinated, yet you talk about death and suffering in vaccinated. The Modena thing, I can’t find any numbers on with respect to actual risk of myocarditis, only that it’s very rare, and if it’s like the Israeli data it’s maybe 7 cases in a million and most all resolve. And Sweden didn’t tell young people not to get vaccinated but to choose a different vaccine. But somehow that’s construed as worse that getting Covid when the data says otherwise. People say the CDC should get better spokespeople and so on. But it won’t matter because we now live in a society that is no longer a society, where the guy next you doesn’t give a damn about you, and where actual scientific knowledge is thrown on the alter of social media-hyped insanity. And again, thanks for being an organ donor.
Bockeye Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 23 hours ago, GaryPinC said: I think the intelligent thing to do is to get it, but it's your choice. It's also a matter of public safety, healthcare costs, and stress on the healthcare system. So when your employer forces you to get it to maintain a safer working environment and keep their healthcare costs lower, either get it or find another job. It's your choice, but stop whining about it like a kitty. I've had to get flu vaccinations for years or lose my job. This is no different and will be supported by the courts. I don't like it, tbh, but it's my choice to go along. I prefer my job here. Choices have consequences, freedoms come with responsibilities. Yeah - this is idiotic. Should we increase health care costs across the board for an entire company because a person is older, fat, drinks too much, smokes. pre existing conditions, etc??? Most of these things can be prevented. Let’s charge them all - Stupid idea. Think before these idiotic ideas are thrown around. It’s purely political at this point - no matter what, get the vaccine or you will be punished. That’s the current mantra. Freedoms continue to disappear and you sheep continue to listen to the press, social media, Fauci and other idiots. This is classic psyops and you continue to follow it. I’d just laugh, but it’s sad as hell and destroying our country. I’ll never get the vaccine nor will my family. As in never.
Big Blitz Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 At least the chicken ***t adults making the decisions had childhoods
SoCal Deek Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: Where are they holding the meetings on this grand conspiracy and who are the "people in charge" at the moment? Keep dreaming. Just don’t come running to me when the hammer comes down!
Beast Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Well this is the issue, isn’t it? Is it about the individual or about the society? A global pandemic hits and people ask what’s in it for me, rather than how can I help my neighbor. Your last paragraph speaks volumes. The mortality rate among vaccinated is at least 10 fold lower than unvaccinated, hospitalization rates are much higher with the unvaccinated, yet you talk about death and suffering in vaccinated. The Modena thing, I can’t find any numbers on with respect to actual risk of myocarditis, only that it’s very rare, and if it’s like the Israeli data it’s maybe 7 cases in a million and most all resolve. And Sweden didn’t tell young people not to get vaccinated but to choose a different vaccine. But somehow that’s construed as worse that getting Covid when the data says otherwise. People say the CDC should get better spokespeople and so on. But it won’t matter because we now live in a society that is no longer a society, where the guy next you doesn’t give a damn about you, and where actual scientific knowledge is thrown on the alter of social media-hyped insanity. And again, thanks for being an organ donor. Scientific knowledge. LMFAO There are so many scientists that disagree with one another on the Covid issue.
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Beast said: Scientific knowledge. LMFAO There are so many scientists that disagree with one another on the Covid issue. I can assure you the scientific consensus supports vaccination
Orlando Buffalo Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Your last sentence is a flat out lie. The total population of individuals 15-30 in the US is about 80 million, and according to the CDC there have been 4000 deaths from Covid in that age group. So that’s about 0.005 %. Data is known for the only significant complication associated with the vaccine that appears to affect the younger population, myocarditis. The incidence of that post-vaccination was 0.00017 percent and of those a handful of them resulted in death with most resolving spontaneously. So there is at least a 50 fold greater risk of dying from Covid in that age group vs. the one known complication in that age group. There are mild side effects such as muscle soreness and stuff, but if you’re going to include those in your chances of a son having issues above what Covid would cause then you’re a hopeless case. Plus I’m only talking about mortality in that age group and not morbidities, for which we’re only scratching the surface of currently. I was not comparing equal damage, being from Covid and Vaccine. My comparison is the 1% chance that the vaccine will cause him to miss school due to cold like/flu like symptoms vs the .0005 chance of major issues from Covid itself. I also will repeat that those 4000 are most likely unhealthy in some way, where my kid is extremely healthy except for minor skin issues.
B-Man Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I know hundreds personally that think they’ and you are crazy and since 90% or more of health care workers are vaccinated across the country they apparently agree. This number is not correct. (unless you discount the thousands of healthcare workers who were fired or resigned) Although I am sure that you know hundreds of people who know I am crazy. What else are you "pronouncing from on high" that is just your opinion ? Edited October 7, 2021 by B-Man
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, B-Man said: This number is not correct. (unless you discount the thousands of healthcare workers who were fired or resigned) Although I am sure that you know hundreds of people who know I am crazy. What else are you "pronouncing from on high" that is just your opinion ? You’re right. In my healthcare system alone I probably know a thousand or more doctors, nurses, allied health care professionals that all recognize that vaccination is the responsible thing to do for themselves and their patients. And thus know you’re crazy.
Bockeye Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Then go get Covid and die if you’re willing to give your life. And when you’re gasping for breath and declare like many have when in their death bed that you should have gotten the vaccine, it will be too late. I would be 99% sure this anesthesiologist and the other guy got their childhood vaccines, got their yearly flu vaccines as that is required by many health care organizations. So enough about your freedom. Oh Jesus, you’re the same type that thought the “insurrection” was the end of America as we knew it. You and your like are such freaking wussies. How many times must it be explained that these are not like normal vaccines which have been created in the past like polio, etc. These vaccines were rushed to market and the side effects are only coming to be known. So get your booster and maybe some blood clots, a stroke, or even death. Have at it. It’s your choose and you can choose it freely. Me and my family won’t be taking it and am also willing to give my life. Coincidentally, know much much more bad asses than I which are willing to do the same. I wish they actually would try to mandate national vaccination at this point. ***** ain’t going to end up like Australia, I can tell you that. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I was not comparing equal damage, being from Covid and Vaccine. My comparison is the 1% chance that the vaccine will cause him to miss school due to cold like/flu like symptoms vs the .0005 chance of major issues from Covid itself. I also will repeat that those 4000 are most likely unhealthy in some way, where my kid is extremely healthy except for minor skin issues. You honestly believe a cold is comparable to a major issue from Covid. You honestly think that. There’s really nothing to be said about that. 1 minute ago, Bockeye said: Oh Jesus, you’re the same type that thought the “insurrection” was the end of America as we knew it. You and your like are such freaking wussies. How many times must it be explained that these are not like normal vaccines which have been created in the past like polio, etc. These vaccines were rushed to market and the side effects are only coming to be known. So get your booster and maybe some blood clots, a stroke, or even death. Have at it. It’s your choose and you can choose it freely. Me and my family won’t be taking it and am also willing to give my life. Coincidentally, know much much more bad asses than I which are willing to do the same. I wish they actually would try to mandate national vaccination at this point. ***** ain’t going to end up like Australia, I can tell you that. Then take the risk and if you get it have the decency to die in your own bed and not waste resources that could be used to save someone else.
Bockeye Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You honestly believe a cold is comparable to a major issue from Covid. You honestly think that. There’s really nothing to be said about that. Then take the risk and if you get it have the decency to die in your own bed and not waste resources that could be used to save someone else. Likewise with your adverse effects. Blood clots, strokes, etc from the vaccine - stay the hell home and deal with it. Same goes if your obese, smoker, drinker, and have any other preventable conditions. DONT go to doctor or hospital - deal with it as it’s your own doing.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: Where are they holding the meetings on this grand conspiracy and who are the "people in charge" at the moment? The rebel B-Man was celebrating works as an anesthesiologist for Pete's sake. "Not vaccinated, good bye" makes sense to me if I run a health system. Imagine you get covid from one of your treating doctors when you're an at-risk person. Hospital workers should be getting triple boosted! Ah--you nailed it! "....makes sense to me..." That's my point. On the individual level, it's all about what "makes sense to me". Your perspective on politely telling the unclean "good bye" is what it is. From my perspective, it's amazing how emotion and reasoning can swing the pendulum. Back a few years when Obamacare was the rage, one of the hot button issues was "pre-existing conditions". Politicians raged about it, citizens clamored for pre-existing conditions to be covered, and next thing you know, we've collectively saved, among others, the person capable to purchasing health insurance but who(m) had other priorities for their money and enver thought they would need it. Now, a few short years later, we have a vaccine that by definition is voluntary, a leadership group that refused to mandate for all and instead chose the death by paper-cut route, segregating the masses into subcategories by the type of work they do, and the same folks bemoaning pre-existing conditions are all for chucking the sick into the sewer--even though the sick were guaran-damn-teed coverage under the ACA. What a world. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Bockeye said: Likewise with your adverse effects. Blood clots, strokes, etc from the vaccine - stay the hell home and deal with it. Same goes if your obese, smoker, drinker, and have any other preventable conditions. DONT go to doctor or hospital - deal with it as it’s your own doing. You realize the risks of things like blood clots from the vaccine are way less than morbidity and mortality from Covid? 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Ah--you nailed it! "....makes sense to me..." That's my point. On the individual level, it's all about what "makes sense to me". Your perspective on politely telling the unclean "good bye" is what it is. From my perspective, it's amazing how emotion and reasoning can swing the pendulum. Back a few years when Obamacare was the rage, one of the hot button issues was "pre-existing conditions". Politicians raged about it, citizens clamored for pre-existing conditions to be covered, and next thing you know, we've collectively saved, among others, the person capable to purchasing health insurance but who(m) had other priorities for their money and enver thought they would need it. Now, a few short years later, we have a vaccine that by definition is voluntary, a leadership group that refused to mandate for all and instead chose the death by paper-cut route, segregating the masses into subcategories by the type of work they do, and the same folks bemoaning pre-existing conditions are all for chucking the sick into the sewer--even though the sick were guaran-damn-teed coverage under the ACA. What a world. The only other time in history I can think of where we had either a national crisis or war or something like that, and the country didn’t pull together, was Vietnam. And the Civil War, but that was obviously a unique case.
Recommended Posts