It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[JaCrispy]

17 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

It's been about trying to get to a herd immunity, but keeping people healthy and alive and trying to keep our healthcare systems from being overwhelmed while doing so.   Vaccination is the best option for that, at least in adults.  You've seen from the other postings here that the technology isn't there yet to properly assess antibody levels, unfortunately.

 

Also, research into the efficacy and resiliency of natural immunity is just starting to develop to fruition.  It's not a given with any virus.  Hence the focus on vaccination.

I do agree about not wanting to overwhelm our healthcare system... but it doesn’t really make sense firing the very heroes who saved us from the brink, during the pandemic...Now our hospitals will be even more overwhelmed...kinda reminds me of the Australian police shooting people so they don’t spread covid...sure, you might stop the spread- but only because everyone who leaves their home will have a bullet in their back...

 

Natural immunity was supposed to be part of the equation for herd immunity when this thing first started...now, nobody cares, even though it is stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine...So, I’m long passed thinking herd immunity is the main objective anymore... too many things just don’t add up, the way the government is going about things imo...

Edited October 6, 2021 by JaCrispy

[plenzmd1]

Hmm. Everyone just comply and shut up and take the Vax. The CDC says so, and so does  @Sundancer, Who thinks only conspiracy theorists like Berenson believe there is any issue with side effects. Guess the Swedes read Berenson on substack eh? 
 

this is exactly why young people . Especially those who have had Covid, should just so no to the vax. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

[Beast]

40 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

But weren’t we told that, while more contagious, the Delta variant is less deadly?

 

Yes. Yes we were.

 

Over and over.

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

More Americans have died from COVID-19 this year than from the virus in all of 2020

 

Fact.

 

 

 

Here's some more facts for you    https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/united-states/

 

Death chart on the right.  Graphs start from December 2020.  The greatest outbreak of deaths was winter of 2021, before vaccination got up to speed.  Then in the late summer 2021 Florida, Texas and the south led the way with Delta deaths. 

 

But I'm sure the right wing Tweetards will try and sell everyone that the vaccines are useless.  And the mindless sheep will suckle at this teat.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Hmm. Everyone just comply and shut up and take the Vax. The CDC says so, and so does  @Sundancer, Who thinks only conspiracy theorists like Berenson believe there is any issue with side effects. Guess the Swedes read Berenson on substack eh? 
 

this is exactly why young people . Especially those who have had Covid, should just so no to the vax. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

@Sundancer says that Sweden is the new Venezuela.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I do agree about not wanting to overwhelm our healthcare system... but it doesn’t really make sense firing the very heroes who saved us from the brink, during the pandemic...Now our hospitals will be even more overwhelmed...kinda reminds me of the Australian police shooting people so they don’t spread covid...sure, you might stop the spread- but only because everyone who leaves their home will have a bullet in their back...

 

Natural immunity was supposed to be part of the equation for herd immunity when this thing first started...now, nobody cares, even though it is stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine...So, I’m long passed thinking herd immunity is the main objective anymore... too many things just don’t add up, the way the government is going about things imo...

Part of the challenge for you JaCrispX is you’re asking questions about things that were said previously and that you may have believed to be accurate.  
 

That’s frowned upon, scientifically speaking.  
 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

49 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Here's some more facts for you    https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/united-states/

 

Death chart on the right.  Graphs start from December 2020.  The greatest outbreak of deaths was winter of 2021, before vaccination got up to speed.  Then in the late summer 2021 Florida, Texas and the south led the way with Delta deaths. 

 

But I'm sure the right wing Tweetards will try and sell everyone that the vaccines are useless.  And the mindless sheep will suckle at this teat.

That is well done- you now state that since vaccines are not useless we should all be forced to get it. If something helps the majority everyone should be required to do it.

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I do agree about not wanting to overwhelm our healthcare system... but it doesn’t really make sense firing the very heroes who saved us from the brink, during the pandemic...Now our hospitals will be even more overwhelmed...kinda reminds me of the Australian police shooting people so they don’t spread covid...sure, you might stop the spread- but only because everyone who leaves their home will have a bullet in their back...

 

Natural immunity was supposed to be part of the equation for herd immunity when this thing first started...now, nobody cares, even though it is stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine...So, I’m long passed thinking herd immunity is the main objective anymore... too many things just don’t add up, the way the government is going about things imo...

Well, it really doesn't make any sense in logical or scientific terms for our healthcare workers to refuse the vaccine putting their families, colleagues, and patients at heightened risk.  Choices are to be respected but have consequences.    And now everyone suffers from their choice.  But it's their choice.

 

How will effective (herd) immunity be determined?  It will be determined by epidemiology, low numbers of hospitalizations and deaths, hopefully cases too.  Outbreaks will be reduced and more limited.  The quickest, healthiest, most controlled way is mass vaccination with natural immunity playing an increasing role over time until we have it under control. 

In the end, you can only really control vaccination, the natural immunity contribution is far more difficult to assess.  So focus on vaccination and look to the numbers to tell when we've reached a sufficient combination.

 

Of course the virus will mutate, and until it's controlled worldwide, we need to be vigilant and revaccinate against breakthrough mutants.  While some see a giant conspiracy, it's simply a resilient pandemic level virus.

 

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Hmm. Everyone just comply and shut up and take the Vax. The CDC says so, and so does  @Sundancer, Who thinks only conspiracy theorists like Berenson believe there is any issue with side effects. Guess the Swedes read Berenson on substack eh? 
 

this is exactly why young people . Especially those who have had Covid, should just so no to the vax. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

Classic case of tweetardation.  From the article:

 

"The Swedish agency said the vaccine from Pfizer is recommended for these age groups instead."  

 

Cardiac inflammation, while a very small side effect in these groups, was a little more pronounced with the Moderna vaccine so they made these recommendations.

[JaCrispy]

20 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Well, it really doesn't make any sense in logical or scientific terms for our healthcare workers to refuse the vaccine putting their families, colleagues, and patients at heightened risk.  Choices are to be respected but have consequences.    And now everyone suffers from their choice.  But it's their choice.

 

How will effective (herd) immunity be determined?  It will be determined by epidemiology, low numbers of hospitalizations and deaths, hopefully cases too.  Outbreaks will be reduced and more limited.  The quickest, healthiest, most controlled way is mass vaccination with natural immunity playing an increasing role over time until we have it under control. 

In the end, you can only really control vaccination, the natural immunity contribution is far more difficult to assess.  So focus on vaccination and look to the numbers to tell when we've reached a sufficient combination.

 

Of course the virus will mutate, and until it's controlled worldwide, we need to be vigilant and revaccinate against breakthrough mutants.  While some see a giant conspiracy, it's simply a resilient pandemic level virus.

 

I disagree with your first sentence...you do realize that there are over 100 million Americans who already have natural immunity, and have no need for a vaccine? 

 

There are healthcare staff, with natural immunity stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine, who were fired...can you honestly say that this is right? I mean, if we are being logical...

Edited October 6, 2021 by JaCrispy

[GaryPinC]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

That is well done- you now state that since vaccines are not useless we should all be forced to get it. If something helps the majority everyone should be required to do it.

I think the intelligent thing to do is to get it, but it's your choice.  It's also a matter of public safety, healthcare costs, and stress on the healthcare system.  So when your employer forces you to get it to maintain a safer working environment and keep their healthcare costs lower, either get it or find another job.  It's your choice, but stop whining about it like a kitty.

 

I've had to get flu vaccinations for years or lose my job.  This is no different and will be supported by the courts.  I don't like it, tbh, but it's my choice to go along.  I prefer my job here.

 

Choices have consequences, freedoms come with responsibilities.

[GaryPinC]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I disagree with your first sentence...you do realize that there are over 100 million Americans who already have natural immunity, and have no need for a vaccine? 

 

There are healthcare staff, with natural immunity stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine, who were fired...can you honestly say that this is right? I mean, if we are being logical...

I totally agree that it's a real shortcoming that natural immunity can't be easily quantified and used as a substitute.   But please understand science is shades of gray and to the best of my knowledge:  1) we can only estimate the number of Americans with natural immunity,  2) there is going to be variability as to the strength of their natural immunity to the point that a certain percentage with "natural immunity" won't give them much protection against a significant exposure,  and 3) there are a number of recent studies showing that natural immunity + vaccination offers the strongest protection of all.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

I think the intelligent thing to do is to get it, but it's your choice.  It's also a matter of public safety, healthcare costs, and stress on the healthcare system.  So when your employer forces you to get it to maintain a safer working environment and keep their healthcare costs lower, either get it or find another job.  It's your choice, but stop whining about it like a kitty.

 

I've had to get flu vaccinations for years or lose my job.  This is no different and will be supported by the courts.  I don't like it, tbh, but it's my choice to go along.  I prefer my job here.

 

Choices have consequences, freedoms come with responsibilities.

I have already been vaccinated, as I have stated many times, but when you are telling me my 16 year old son needs to get it in order protect 70 year old who never took care of themselves I do get pissed since we do not have even a 5 year study mich less a truly long term study on the effects. I also understand a business like a hospital pushing the vaccine, but it still should not be mandatory. 

[Sundancer]

6 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

But weren’t we told that, while more contagious, the Delta variant is less deadly?

I’ve seen people say that on PPP and Twitter. Not seen definitive studies on that. 

3 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Classic case of tweetardation.  From the article:

 

"The Swedish agency said the vaccine from Pfizer is recommended for these age groups instead."  

 

Cardiac inflammation, while a very small side effect in these groups, was a little more pronounced with the Moderna vaccine so they made these recommendations.

Thanks for responding to the antivax  defenders. A movement rooted in America. Be loud and proud PPP. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

I have seen several comments that the only people against the vaccine mandate are Americans. This is simply not true so I linked to three international stories

 

https://apnews.com/article/europe-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-8a27d8a9cbfad3789e0fca8e24daaef4

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/21/world/australia/australia-melbourne-vaccine-mandate-protest.amp.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/england-will-scrap-vaccine-passports-in-bid-for-massive-vaccine-boost/wcm/eeb8a57a-c670-4a28-b803-a74709976bc4/amp/

 

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I have already been vaccinated, as I have stated many times, but when you are telling me my 16 year old son needs to get it in order protect 70 year old who never took care of themselves I do get pissed since we do not have even a 5 year study mich less a truly long term study on the effects. I also understand a business like a hospital pushing the vaccine, but it still should not be mandatory. 

My 15 year old will be getting his vaccine in a couple weeks, he'll be far enough out from his natural infection recovery.  Biggest reasons?  It's a safe vaccine, he'll get an extra degree of protection, and at this point there's no reason Covid can't mutate to afflict the younger more. 

 

Mandating an emergency use only vaccine should not be allowed, and it mostly wasn't until after full approval.

 

So a company, struggling to get back on it's feet after the lockdown, shouldn't be allowed to mandate a fully approved vaccine to create the safest workplace possible and minimize the risk of a super spreader event that would hobble their business and increase healthcare costs?

 

That doesn't make good business sense. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by GaryPinC

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I have already been vaccinated, as I have stated many times, but when you are telling me my 16 year old son needs to get it in order protect 70 year old who never took care of themselves I do get pissed since we do not have even a 5 year study mich less a truly long term study on the effects. I also understand a business like a hospital pushing the vaccine, but it still should not be mandatory. 

 

Would it be ok for your 16 year old to get the vaccine to protect 70 year olds who did take of themselves?

[plenzmd1]

10 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Classic case of tweetardation.  From the article:

 

"The Swedish agency said the vaccine from Pfizer is recommended for these age groups instead."  

 

Cardiac inflammation, while a very small side effect in these groups, was a little more pronounced with the Moderna vaccine so they made these recommendations.

Classic case of missing the point. @Sundancer et all make the case all the time”’take the jab, there are no side effects, the government tells me so” and ridicules people who question the info we are fed. 
 

Again, I am jabbed and believed in it for most  people. But that does not mean I stick my head in the sand and blindly follow what a for profit company and a politicized CDC telll me.
 

I am sure you saw where  BioNtech ceo came out today and said “ anew vaccine will be needed next year”. Shocking. A company with one product and one profit center says we need to keep taking their “ new and improved “shot that supplies that profit.. and y’all will just slurp  it up and say “ yep”.. no questions asked. 
 

 

[delirious]

With all the rampant authoritarianism happening in these threads, it'll only be a matter of time I get my job reassignment letter to work at the gulags...

 

-200 social credit points

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Classic case of missing the point. @Sundancer et all make the case all the time”’take the jab, there are no side effects, the government tells me so” and ridicules people who question the info we are fed. 
 

Again, I am jabbed and believed in it for most  people. But that does not mean I stick my head in the sand and blindly follow what a for profit company and a politicized CDC telll me.
 

I am sure you saw where  BioNtech ceo came out today and said “ anew vaccine will be needed next year”. Shocking. A company with one product and one profit center says we need to keep taking their “ new and improved “shot that supplies that profit.. and y’all will just slurp  it up and say “ yep”.. no questions asked. 
 

 

Hmm so a new virus that has mutated may require another shot. No way. 
 

Instead of being grateful for mRNA technology that allows quick adaptation to a deadly and incredibly contagious virus, let’s keep up with anti vax defending and messaging. “It’s a conspiracy of something. I am smarter than doctors and scientists! Here’s a Twitter link. Science shmience.” 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Sundancer