It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

One thing that gets mentioned and is absolutely true is they should have an antibody card and ease of antibody testing to go with the vaccine card.

 

That would alleviate these valid concerns of the naturally infected and be really beneficial to validate the efficacy of the vaccine in the immunocompromised.

You’re absolutely right...but you know why they don’t? Because it’s not about trying to get to herd immunity, never has been imo...if it were, natural immunity would be included in the equation...👍

[All_Pro_Bills]

37 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Antibody testing is not that accurate in mass settings unfortunately. But that would be great if it was possible. 

I assume you are aware of this but the PCR test can also be inaccurate for identifying an active and transmittable case of COVID virus either.  The result depends on the sample amplification rate or "cycle threshold" that is used in the test.  A higher amplification level can produce more false positives.  So when getting data on the number of positive PCR tests and new cases knowing the amplification level is necessary to interpret the data correctly but I understand most States don't require that information. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I assume you are aware of this but the PCR test can also be inaccurate for identifying an active and transmittable case of COVID virus either.  The result depends on the sample amplification rate or "cycle threshold" that is used in the test.  A higher amplification level can produce more false positives.  So when getting data on the number of positive PCR tests and new cases knowing the amplification level is necessary to interpret the data correctly but I understand most States don't require that information. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are looking for lasting immunity you really need to somehow quantitate the memory B cell and the cellular immunity through T cells.  Contrary to what is being said in this thread, a lot of people are working on the natural immunity issue.  Studies from Israel and the Cleveland Clinic are very encouraging.  A study of Kentucky residents shows a better immune response in vaccinated vs. natural immunity.  For those previously infected, we just don’t know for sure who develops good antibody titers and for how long, so that’s why you can’t just say you’ve been infected and get a free pass.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

Like I said, not controversial except min US social media and Venezuelan politics. No controversy in medical circles. Getting vaccinated is a sign you will be a good custodian of the limited organ supply. That's a medical, not social media driven, observation.  

The business side of medicine can be cold.  Some people live, some people die, and someone is always charged with figuring out who makes the cut.  
 

It’s interesting to me, however, that the donor side of the equation relies on emotion to compel individuals to participate.  Personally, I’m not certain this particular approach will encourage more people to sign up, or have the opposite effect.  I’m also left to wonder if changes will be coming to the harvesting side of the equation.  How ironic would it be if a family member of the author of the “You didn’t make the cut” letter posted above was saved with a donation from someone who was vax hesitant?    Worse yet, imagine the trauma she might  face when rejecting a donor organ that might save a loved one—her child, partner or spouse—-when she realized it came from one of the unclean? 
 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Bockeye]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:48 PM, B-Man said:

 

California Homeschooling Inquiries Skyrocket After Gov. Newsom Announces Statewide Student Vaccination Mandate.

https://californiaglobe.com/articles/california-homeschooling-inquiries-skyrocket-only-hours-after-gov-newsom-announces-statewide-student-vaccination-mandate/

 

 

Related: Flawed COVID mandates are speeding up the flight out of public schools.

 

https://nypost.com › 2021/09/30 › flawed-covid-manda...

 

 

 

 

This is the upside of all the vaccine mandate nonsense with schools. Once homeschooled, kids will no longer be subjected to a lot of the liberal bull#### they are programming these kids with in schools.  Parents will be much more active in their children’s upbringing.  
 

Its sad to see “teachers” no longer developing kids and teaching them how to think.  They are now telling them what to think. 
 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If you are any of the others listed you wouldn’t make the list either.  Transplant programs do psychological analyses to see if you will follow medical advice post-transplant.   The three conditions you list indicate they wouldn’t.  Quit being deliberately obtuse.

If you have done all of those 3 to cause damage to your body to the point you need the transplant you are not rejected. The Covid shot should not be a requirement for a kidney transplant if the behavior afterwards will be proper.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

If you have done all of those 3 to cause damage to your body to the point you need the transplant you are not rejected. The Covid shot should not be a requirement for a kidney transplant if the behavior afterwards will be proper.

Your opinion.  When you have a scarce resource, and the patient gives evidence they may not want to follow care orders from a physician, it weighs on the decision.  I'm not saying it's the perfect way to do things, but that is some of the decisions that have to be made in transplants.

[Beast]

There are people here that would rather have Dr. Fauci as our slot receiver than Cole Beasley.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Your opinion.  When you have a scarce resource, and the patient gives evidence they may not want to follow care orders from a physician, it weighs on the decision.  I'm not saying it's the perfect way to do things, but that is some of the decisions that have to be made in transplants.

 Vaccine über alles. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

39 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Your opinion.  When you have a scarce resource, and the patient gives evidence they may not want to follow care orders from a physician, it weighs on the decision.  I'm not saying it's the perfect way to do things, but that is some of the decisions that have to be made in transplants.

So where do you draw the line on arbitrary withholding of care, medical ethics, acts of malpractice, and coercing patients into specific treatment options?  It seems like a mean-spirited approach that says "if I hurt you enough I can get you to do anything I want you to do."   And isn't that the basic weapon in the toolbox of mandate advocates?  Sounds consistent to torture tactics to me. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[B-Man]

10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So where do you draw the line on arbitrary withholding of care, medical ethics, acts of malpractice, and coercing patients into specific treatment options?  It seems like a mean-spirited approach that says "if I hurt you enough I can get you to do anything I want you to do."   And isn't that the basic weapon in the toolbox of mandate advocates?  Sounds consistent to torture tactics to me. 

 

At this point it's about control

 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So where do you draw the line on arbitrary withholding of care, medical ethics, acts of malpractice, and coercing patients into specific treatment options?  It seems like a mean-spirited approach that says "if I hurt you enough I can get you to do anything I want you to do."   And isn't that the basic weapon in the toolbox of mandate advocates?  Sounds consistent to torture tactics to me. 

Ideally if you had enough donor organs such issues wouldn’t come into play.  But transplant medicine has always included the willingness of a potential recipient to follow health guidelines as part of the recipient screening process.

23 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 Vaccine über alles. 

I’m glad you are an organ donor.  But it seems you don’t understand much about the recipient side of the equation.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Reminder: no one was vaccinated last year, two-thirds of all Americans vaccinated this year.

 

Something..... Isn't..... Right.

 

 

 

 

[Sundancer]

17 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Reminder: no one was vaccinated last year, two-thirds of all Americans vaccinated this year.

 

Something..... Isn't..... Right.

 

 

 

 

What’s not right is that you don’t understand exponential growth. Or the delta variant. 

[B-Man]

Just now, Sundancer said:

What’s not right is that you don’t understand exponential growth. Or the delta variant. 

 

 

More Americans have died from COVID-19 this year than from the virus in all of 2020

 

Fact.

 

 

 

[Sundancer]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

 

More Americans have died from COVID-19 this year than from the virus in all of 2020

 

Fact.

 

 

 

I pooped this morning. 
 

Fact. 

[Boatdrinks]

52 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Reminder: no one was vaccinated last year, two-thirds of all Americans vaccinated this year.

 

Something..... Isn't..... Right.

 

 

 

 

Clearly Joe Biden is personally responsible.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

I’m glad you are an organ donor.  But it seems you don’t understand much about the recipient side of the equation.

Acknowledged. That side involves projections, charts, statistics, and the pure cost of the process.  I'm not so interested in the bureaucracy and number crunching, but I'm a real crackerjack on the empathy side of things.  It's one of the primary reasons I became an organ donor to begin with when I was 16 or 17.  

 

What I do know is that prior to the decision by the provider to cast the patient down to the sodomites, the patient was in line for life saving treatment.  That involved time, effort, planning, choosing a provider, striking a home/life/work/treatment balance and what was likely a substantial emotional investment, and the providers were down for the ride and all that came with it--emotion, strategery, planning and of course---revenue.  

 

Then, suddenly, all bets are off.  That's got to be pretty devastating.   I saw this story today:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-health-system-denies-kidney-transplant-unvaccinated

 

August, good to go.  September, go to h***, but hey, we feel really, really badly about having to tell you to ^%&^ off.  It's ghoulish, but as I said earlier, business is business. 

 

As for me, I'm likely to continue to be a donor but I'm at the stage of my life where I realize if you don't push back in whatever way, shape or form you can things don't change.  It bothers me to think that my contribution to the cause might well bypass a deserving father, mother, brother, sister or child simply due to their decision not to submit to a voluntary vaccination that's been politicized from the start.  So, I'll keep an eye on it, at least while my eyes are still in my skull. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

What’s not right is that you don’t understand exponential growth. Or the delta variant. 

But weren’t we told that, while more contagious, the Delta variant is less deadly?

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

You’re absolutely right...but you know why they don’t? Because it’s not about trying to get to herd immunity, never has been imo...if it were, natural immunity would be included in the equation...👍

It's been about trying to get to a herd immunity, but keeping people healthy and alive and trying to keep our healthcare systems from being overwhelmed while doing so.   Vaccination is the best option for that, at least in adults.  You've seen from the other postings here that the technology isn't there yet to properly assess antibody levels, unfortunately.

 

Also, research into the efficacy and resiliency of natural immunity is just starting to develop to fruition.  It's not a given with any virus.  Hence the focus on vaccination.