It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

One size fits all doesn’t fit everyone. 
 

Are you the guy who said vaccines don’t work for most people after 6 months? Or is that one of the other bad info posters? 

All right, stop with gratuitous insults.  The information I post is based on the science of what we know and don't know.   We do know these vaccines work.  That is undisputed.  We also know that, if you have been infected and survive, you develop antibodies against the virus.  We also know that some people who are infected develop either less of an immune response, or may not develop antibodies at all.  That data is out there.  And we know that in those who produce a strong immune response after infection are doing well, which is great. 

 

I am all for doing more studies of the natural immune response.  Researchers are trying to figure out what the long term immune responses are in both those vaccinated and those who have been infected and develop an immune response.  There is an interesting study out of Rockefeller University that suggests vaccines and natural immunity both produce memory B cells, which are those that make antibodies against virus for a long time.   Their data suggests that the memory cells are produced much quicker than in those with natural immunity, but the ones from natural immunity may stay around and provide protection for a lot longer.  And of course this does not take into account the cell mediated, T cell responses of either.

 

The point is that this is a very complex scientific issue, and it requires some of the brightest minds in virology and such to figure it out.  What we do know without doubt is that unvaccinated people should be vaccinated.  If they do not, they put themselves at risk of becoming infected and potentially dying or suffering serious adverse effects.  On that there is absolutely no question.

 

Just realized this response should have gone to Timmy, but my point on the gratuitous insults stands.  We don't need that stuff.

21 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't believe natural immunity is 13 times better, but going back to my original point- why mandate a vaccine for someone who already has the antibodies? A 25 year old who had Covid 3 months ago is not going to as much as of threat as a 65 year old who got vaccinated in Feb. The govt making a one size fits all for this situation is the problem 

Because we don't know for sure how protected they will be, and we know there are no downsides to the vaccination in such individuals.  

Edited September 23, 2021 by oldmanfan

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

As health care workers our obligation is to keep our patients safe and healthy.  The best way to keep patients safe from Covid is to have everyone around them in the hospital vaccinated.  The science on that is incontrovertible.   

Here's what puzzles me.  Out of intellectual curiosity if it's so incontrovertible then why are many of what I expect are the most knowledgeable about the virus and the vaccination, health care workers, hesitant to get vaccinated?  If all was on the up-and-up I'd expect there would be absolutely no reason or need to apply coercion and force to this segment of the population given their access to and knowledge of COVID information. 

Could it be stats like the FDA severe adverse events reporting of 7,899 deaths following vaccination as of 9/20/21.  How does that count compare to other "safe" vaccines?  

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Here's what puzzles me.  Out of intellectual curiosity if it's so incontrovertible then why are many of what I expect are the most knowledgeable about the virus and the vaccination, health care workers, hesitant to get vaccinated?  If all was on the up-and-up I'd expect there would be absolutely no reason or need to apply coercion and force to this segment of the population given their access to and knowledge of COVID information. 

Could it be stats like the FDA severe adverse events reporting of 7,899 deaths following vaccination as of 9/20/21.  How does that count compare to other "safe" vaccines?  

First of all, there are not as many health care workers as you think not taking the vaccine.  I'll use my health care network as an example.  Out of approximately 14,000 employees, only about 200 had to be let go for vaccine refusal.  That's about 1% of our workforce.  ECMC says they will have 400, but without knowing their total number of employees I would say that it would be in the single digits of percentage of employees.  The vast majority of health care workers get vaccinated because they understand they need to protect themselves and their patients, and because they understand and accept the science.  The ones that don't are allowing political views to skew their thought process.  You think there are a lot of health care workers not taking it, because the few that won't get highly publicized. 

 

The VAERS system reports ALL incidents from ALL vaccines as I understand it.  And they report any side effects.  Also, the reporting can be done by anyone, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that some anti-vax people are filing false reports.  The CDC has been vigilant about following up with vaccinated folks, and any VAERS reports have to be looked into by the CDC and the FDA.  When they do so, the number of supposed deaths that can be attributed to the vaccine are extraordinarily small.

 

Now, does that prevent those who are bound and determined to not accept the truth from coming up with false data and such.   Sadly, no.  You see in today in this very thread.  It used to be they would point to the VAERS data as proof of something sinister.  But since that hasn't worked, now they point to the VAERS data as being unreliable because (supposedly) all the mystery deaths and reactions from the virus are not being reported.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

First of all, there are not as many health care workers as you think not taking the vaccine.  I'll use my health care network as an example.  Out of approximately 14,000 employees, only about 200 had to be let go for vaccine refusal.  That's about 1% of our workforce.  ECMC says they will have 400, but without knowing their total number of employees I would say that it would be in the single digits of percentage of employees.  The vast majority of health care workers get vaccinated because they understand they need to protect themselves and their patients, and because they understand and accept the science.  The ones that don't are allowing political views to skew their thought process.  You think there are a lot of health care workers not taking it, because the few that won't get highly publicized. 

 

The VAERS system reports ALL incidents from ALL vaccines as I understand it.  And they report any side effects.  Also, the reporting can be done by anyone, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that some anti-vax people are filing false reports.  The CDC has been vigilant about following up with vaccinated folks, and any VAERS reports have to be looked into by the CDC and the FDA.  When they do so, the number of supposed deaths that can be attributed to the vaccine are extraordinarily small.

 

Now, does that prevent those who are bound and determined to not accept the truth from coming up with false data and such.   Sadly, no.  You see in today in this very thread.  It used to be they would point to the VAERS data as proof of something sinister.  But since that hasn't worked, now they point to the VAERS data as being unreliable because (supposedly) all the mystery deaths and reactions from the virus are not being reported.  

Thanks for the insights..

[Sundancer]

13 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Thanks for the insights..

I’ll echo oldman as well. The people not getting the vaccine in health care are not the workers most people envision. It’s not the doctors and nurses refusing the vaccine. I am not diminishing their contribution to effective health care but my point is this: More informed health care workers are getting vaccinated. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

One size fits all doesn’t fit everyone. 
 

Are you the guy who said vaccines don’t work for most people after 6 months? Or is that one of the other bad info posters? 

I admitted a while ago that I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue, but you like to keep on it for some reason- probably because it makes you feel better about your unethical decision to force children  to get a vaccine for an illness that is almost no threat to them 

[TSOL]

So i was watching the local news last night and of course vaccine talk was dominating the show. And they had a doctor on, had interviewed him. 

 

So he come on and says very clearly with emphasis in his voice "not being vaccinated is literally like playing russian roulette, the odds arr similar" and then in a much quieter and nearly mumbled voice he says "if you are male, over 85 and have pre existing co-morbidities" 

 

If it wasnt real, it would have been comical 

 

[Sundancer]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I admitted a while ago that I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue, but you like to keep on it for some reason- probably because it makes you feel better about your unethical decision to force children  to get a vaccine for an illness that is almost no threat to them 

Cute. 
 

No reputed scientist ever said the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months. Only Buffalo Timmy stuck to his “guns” on that misinformation. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

32 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Cute. 
 

No reputed scientist ever said the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months. Only Buffalo Timmy stuck to his “guns” on that misinformation. 

Yeah because the president was not pushing for a 6 month booster last week and Israel is not giving them to everyone, but "no reputable scientist" ever said the effects were waning. Keep pushing your unethical belief that children need to be vaccinated.

[Sundancer]

36 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Yeah because the president was not pushing for a 6 month booster last week and Israel is not giving them to everyone, but "no reputable scientist" ever said the effects were waning. Keep pushing your unethical belief that children need to be vaccinated.

 

Effects are waning =/= "the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months"

 

 

 

I didn't think you were admitting you were wrong. You are sticking to your misinformation, I guess because you are afraid to admit you're wrong under your anonymous name on a football board. Remember integrity?

[Orlando Buffalo]

3 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

Effects are waning =/= "the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months"

 

 

 

I didn't think you were admitting you were wrong. You are sticking to your misinformation, I guess because you are afraid to admit you're wrong under your anonymous name on a football board. Remember integrity?

That was my original comment when I was looking at the same info Biden was still using this week. I admitted I believed the wrong source, but I admitted it weeks ago. How are you doing on your unethical stand?

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

That was my original comment when I was looking at the same info Biden was still using this week. I admitted I believed the wrong source, but I admitted it weeks ago. How are you doing on your unethical stand?

You didn’t even admit you’re wrong today.
 

My what?

 

 

 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

20 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue,

 

11 hours ago, Sundancer said:

You didn’t even admit you’re wrong today.

 

My quote today- perhaps you can tell me what these words meant to you? 

[JaCrispy]

21 hours ago, TSOL said:

So i was watching the local news last night and of course vaccine talk was dominating the show. And they had a doctor on, had interviewed him. 

 

So he come on and says very clearly with emphasis in his voice "not being vaccinated is literally like playing russian roulette, the odds arr similar" and then in a much quieter and nearly mumbled voice he says "if you are male, over 85 and have pre existing co-morbidities" 

 

If it wasnt real, it would have been comical 

 

People are becoming hip to what’s going on, that it’s not about heard immunity, or the virus...

[plenzmd1]

Just tested positive for the coco...fully vaxed since April 24th. 

 

Cold like symptoms. These vaccines are not vaccines, they are therapeutics, and we should call them as such.

[Orlando Buffalo]

25 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Just tested positive for the coco...fully vaxed since April 24th. 

 

Cold like symptoms. These vaccines are not vaccines, they are therapeutics, and we should call them as such.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html

 

No no you dumb plebeian, the words just mean something different now. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Buffalo Timmy

[Big Blitz]

 

[TSOL]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Always trust your friendly neighborhood drug dealer 

[T master]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:01 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I'm going to suggest you let your wife run the daycare. You appear to be just a tad out of control.

So you never answered my last reply to this just wondering if you read it .

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Medical staff does NOT want the vaccination