It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[dpberr]

La Salle University. 90 percent vaccinated. The kids mask. They made the kids and staff vaccinate. 

 

Now...goes virtual for several days over an unspecified number of cases.  Of course that number is nowhere to be found.

 

School was in session less than two weeks. Full tuition and rents expected, however, rolling safety timeouts or not. 

 

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/09/06/la-salle-university-goes-remote-through-friday-due-to-rise-in-covid-19-cases/

[Big Blitz]

20 years after 9/11, I wouldn't have believed in a million years that the left and right would unite again in order to fight a common enemy......our own government 

 

NYC is on the brink of becoming Australia.  Stand with these people.   

 

California needs to recall it's authoritarianism scum bag.  Stand with them.  

 

Resist it all.  It's a seasonal flu they are slowly getting you used to mitigating and vaccinating for life against without justification and are prepared to segregate society to do it.  Eradication hopes (however fake those were) are done.  And we are done with the lunacy.  The data says time to move on.  

 

[Westside]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tragic but anecdotal.  Deaths by suicide last year dropped 5.6% compared to 2019 and was the lowest since 2015.

Link?

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

20 years after 9/11, I wouldn't have believed in a million years that the left and right would unite again in order to fight a common enemy......our own government 

 

NYC is on the brink of becoming Australia.  Stand with these people.   

 

California needs to recall it's authoritarianism scum bag.  Stand with them.  

 

Resist it all.  It's a seasonal flu they are slowly getting you used to mitigating and vaccinating for life against without justification and are prepared to segregate society to do it.  Eradication hopes (however fake those were) are done.  And we are done with the lunacy.  The data says time to move on.  

 

The problem here is all these policies are based on false assumptions or premises.  False premises known to organizations like the CDC.

 

False assumption #1.  Vaccinated people can't get the virus.  Fact is they can and they do either because the vaccine did not "work" for them or the immunity it provided is wearing off over time. 

False assumption #2.  Vaccinated people can't spread the virus.  Fact is they can because the vaccines are not good at controlling viral load.  And an individual with a viral load, vaccinated or not vaccinated, is a potential spreader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OrangeBills]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tragic but anecdotal.  Deaths by suicide last year dropped 5.6% compared to 2019 and was the lowest since 2015.

 

I don't believe that's accurate at all.  You're likely going with the agenda-driven Atlantic article which served as a platform for that nut-job to spread his view that lock-downs had no impact.   

 

Covid: Suicide attempts among young girls surged by more than 50% during pandemic, CDC says (cnbc.com)

 

Suicide attempts increased among adolescents aged 12 to 17, especially young girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic, according to CDC data.

Among the young girls, average weekly visits to the emergency department for suspected suicide attempts from February 2021 to March 2021 was 50.6% higher than the same period a year prior.

The study likely underrepresents the real number of suspected suicide attempts because Americans were hesitant to go to hospitals during the pandemic, in fear of contracting Covid-19.

 

Suicide attempts surged among 12- to 17-year-olds, especially adolescent girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic and got worse the longer social distancing orders and government lockdowns persisted, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

[North Buffalo]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

20 years after 9/11, I wouldn't have believed in a million years that the left and right would unite again in order to fight a common enemy......our own government 

 

NYC is on the brink of becoming Australia.  Stand with these people.   

 

California needs to recall it's authoritarianism scum bag.  Stand with them.  

 

Resist it all.  It's a seasonal flu they are slowly getting you used to mitigating and vaccinating for life against without justification and are prepared to segregate society to do it.  Eradication hopes (however fake those were) are done.  And we are done with the lunacy.  The data says time to move on.  

 

Lol bs yeh there are some yahoos in Staten Island but very few

[OrangeBills]

11 hours ago, Governor said:

 

And what we don’t know is the long term damage we’re doing to kids when we send them to total hick schools in a place like Florida.

 

Is that a conversation you want to have with your kid? 

 

No different than any of the long-term effects we've ever seen from any of the other typical Respiratory viruses we've dealt with for hundreds of years.

[North Buffalo]

1 minute ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I don't believe that's accurate at all.  You're likely going with the agenda-driven Atlantic article which served as a platform for that nut-job to spread his view that lock-downs had no impact.   

 

Covid: Suicide attempts among young girls surged by more than 50% during pandemic, CDC says (cnbc.com)

 

Suicide attempts increased among adolescents aged 12 to 17, especially young girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic, according to CDC data.

Among the young girls, average weekly visits to the emergency department for suspected suicide attempts from February 2021 to March 2021 was 50.6% higher than the same period a year prior.

The study likely underrepresents the real number of suspected suicide attempts because Americans were hesitant to go to hospitals during the pandemic, in fear of contracting Covid-19.

 

Suicide attempts surged among 12- to 17-year-olds, especially adolescent girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic and got worse the longer social distancing orders and government lockdowns persisted, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Yeh lock downs have saved lives at height of pandemic but post psych is way up at the hospitals I work at in southern westchester

1 minute ago, OrangeBills said:

 

No different than any of the long-term effects we've ever seen from any of the other typical Respiratory viruses we've dealt with for hundreds of years.

Well unregulated states just means freedumb to be crapped and not paid for it.

[Big Gun]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Link?

  

It's old but here.....https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/something-fishy-pfizer-ceo-not-getting-his-own-companys-covid-19-vaccine-raises-questions-3182408.html

 

Plenty of "fake checkers" stating he has since taken it, I don't believe any and all left "fake fact checkers"

 

FWIW, I know a RN, works in a hospital has a 5 and 2 yr old and can't wait until the vaccine is approved for children as young as 2 so she can get them vaxxed. Wouldn't want her as my nurse as good decisions by her seem to be lacking. 

[Governor]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The problem here is all these policies are based on false assumptions or premises.  False premises known to organizations like the CDC.

 

False assumption #1.  Vaccinated people can't get the virus.  Fact is they can and they do either because the vaccine did not "work" for them or the immunity it provided is wearing off over time. 

False assumption #2.  Vaccinated people can't spread the virus.  Fact is they can because the vaccines are not good at controlling viral load.  And an individual with a viral load, vaccinated or not vaccinated, is a potential spreader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t remember the CDC ever making those claims. That was already known by Thanksgiving 2020 because I had to have that exact conversation with a sick family member at that time.

[Sundancer]

 

 

How to get herd immunity 101. Vaccines work lesson #7856443. 

 

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The problem here is all these policies are based on false assumptions or premises.  False premises known to organizations like the CDC.

 

False assumption #1.  Vaccinated people can't get the virus.  Fact is they can and they do either because the vaccine did not "work" for them or the immunity it provided is wearing off over time. 

False assumption #2.  Vaccinated people can't spread the virus.  Fact is they can because the vaccines are not good at controlling viral load.  And an individual with a viral load, vaccinated or not vaccinated, is a potential spreader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 has a lot of problems in the way you phrased it. First, Vaccinated people's viral load decreases faster than unvaccinated, making the vaccine better for that. Second, viral load in someone who is vaccinated's nose =/= spreading at the same rate as an unvaccinated person. 

 

If were after large scale immunity/asymptomatic people, the safest way to get there is through vaccines. No doubt. 

 

Get vaccinated. Get your kids vaccinated. 

 

But by all means don't listen to me. Ask your doctor. Not the outlier doc you found on Twitter, but the doc you go to when you need a doc. See what they say. If you think you know better than him, listen to yourself for a second: You don't. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

8 minutes ago, Governor said:

I don’t remember the CDC ever making those claims. That was already known by Thanksgiving 2020 because I had to have that exact conversation with a sick family member at that time.

Yes, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky made that admission on a CNN news interview a few months back. 

 

This from MSN.  "The viral load of vaccinated people with breakthrough cases is the same as in unvaccinated people, the CDC said Friday." 

 

So where's the logic in restrictions on just the un-vaccinated?  Playing the odds maybe?  Or just shooting in the dark? Or has the goalpost been moved and rather than keeping vaccinated people from getting sick the goal is now to keep them from getting seriously sick?  Has there ever been such a thing with vaccines ever before?         

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-report-shows-vaccinated-people-can-spread-covid-19/ar-AAML2bE

 

I keep preaching it over and over and over that we what's needed is an effective anti-viral to complement the vaccines but that idea seems to have little support among the people making all the rules here.  More than being oblivious to the concept they appear to be resisting it.  Protecting the host from severe inflection while allowing the virus to multiple and mutate using the host isn't going to get the job done.  Unless the vaccine stops the virus from replicating, which apparently these vaccines don't, then vaccinating everyone isn't going to end this or get it under control without a lot of unintended consequences like ultimately producing some killer variant.     

[All_Pro_Bills]

29 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

 

How to get herd immunity 101. Vaccines work lesson #7856443. 

 

 

#2 has a lot of problems in the way you phrased it. First, Vaccinated people's viral load decreases faster than unvaccinated, making the vaccine better for that. Second, viral load in someone who is vaccinated's nose =/= spreading at the same rate as an unvaccinated person. 

 

If were after large scale immunity/asymptomatic people, the safest way to get there is through vaccines. No doubt. 

 

Get vaccinated. Get your kids vaccinated. 

 

But by all means don't listen to me. Ask your doctor. Not the outlier doc you found on Twitter, but the doc you go to when you need a doc. See what they say. If you think you know better than him, listen to yourself for a second: You don't. 

For the record, I'm not on Twitter or Facebook.  And I generate my own conclusions using inputs from various sources of information.  Some of which I agree with and some which I don't.  And given my job I have access to what's likely the largest private collection of health care data and analytics including about a year and a half of COVID patient information.  I'd say that makes me pretty well informed along with searching and researching publicly available sources like the CDC. One of several government and private organizations my work team happens to support.

 

Also for the record I am vaccinated but I'm also aware of the limitations that provides.  And apparently the CDC agrees with me as they have determined vaccinated people can spread the virus, have high viral loads, become infected, and get sick just the same as the un-vaccinated.  I have yet to see any study or data that specifies the viral load reduction in vaccinated and un-vaccinated so if you've got a source I'd be interested.

 

I'm not arguing against vaccines here.  Or any specific measure.  What I am arguing about is inconsistent and ineffective social and medical policies that conflict with known facts and the officials that refuse to adjust their edicts based on the availability of new information.  As I've concluded vaccination alone will not stop the outbreak (look at Israel for example) I can only conclude they care more about getting everyone vaccinated than they do with stopping the virus.       

Edited September 7, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, Bidens_basement said:

Link?

 

4 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I don't believe that's accurate at all.  You're likely going with the agenda-driven Atlantic article which served as a platform for that nut-job to spread his view that lock-downs had no impact.   

 

Covid: Suicide attempts among young girls surged by more than 50% during pandemic, CDC says (cnbc.com)

 

Suicide attempts increased among adolescents aged 12 to 17, especially young girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic, according to CDC data.

Among the young girls, average weekly visits to the emergency department for suspected suicide attempts from February 2021 to March 2021 was 50.6% higher than the same period a year prior.

The study likely underrepresents the real number of suspected suicide attempts because Americans were hesitant to go to hospitals during the pandemic, in fear of contracting Covid-19.

 

Suicide attempts surged among 12- to 17-year-olds, especially adolescent girls, during the Covid-19 pandemic and got worse the longer social distancing orders and government lockdowns persisted, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Those are attempts in 2021 over a one month period.  There was no mention in that article of the number of deaths. 

 

In 2020, suicides were down 5.6%.  Drug overdoses were way up which isn't surprising given people were more isolated.  I don't read the Atlantic.  I don't care if you don't believe this data.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

 

According to provisional data, in 2020, there were notable changes in the number and ranking of deaths compared with 2019.5 COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death in 2020, with an estimated 345 323 deaths, and was largely responsible for the substantial increase in total deaths from 2019 to 2020. Substantial increases from 2019 to 2020 also occurred for several other leading causes. Heart disease deaths increased by 4.8%, the largest increase in heart disease deaths since 2012. Increases in deaths also occurred for unintentional injury (11.1%), Alzheimer disease (9.8%), and diabetes (15.4%). Influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2020 increased by 7.5%, although the number of deaths was lower in 2020 than in 2017 and 2018. From 2019 to 2020, deaths due to chronic lower respiratory disease declined by 3.4% and suicide deaths declined by 5.6%.

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

For the record, I'm not on Twitter or Facebook.  And I generate my own conclusions using inputs from various sources of information.  Some of which I agree with and some which I don't.  And given my job I have access to what's likely the largest private collection of health care data and analytics including about a year and a half of COVID patient information.  I'd say that makes me pretty well informed along with searching and researching publicly available sources like the CDC. One of several government and private organizations my work team happens to support.

 

Also for the record I am vaccinated but I'm also aware of the limitations that provides.  And apparently the CDC agrees with me as they have determined vaccinated people can spread the virus, have high viral loads, become infected, and get sick just the same as the un-vaccinated. 

 

Hard to take your Internet credentials seriously when you say stuff like the underlined. 

 

But you're also the guy who says that vaccines don't work for most people after 6 months, which no one says. 

 

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

I have yet to see any study or data that specifies the viral load reduction in vaccinated and un-vaccinated so if you've got a source I'd be interested.

 

With all your access, you'd think you'd have seen this study. I assume with all your access, you can read the actual thing but here's a simple graph from it.  

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262701v1

 

 

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm not arguing against vaccines here.  Or any specific measure.  What I am arguing about is inconsistent and ineffective social and medical policies that conflict with known facts and the officials that refuse to adjust their edicts based on the availability of new information.  As I've concluded vaccination alone will not stop the outbreak (look at Israel for example) I can only conclude they care more about getting everyone vaccinated than they do with stopping the virus.       

 

[BillStime]

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

Those are attempts in 2021 over a one month period.  There was no mention in that article of the number of deaths. 

 

In 2020, suicides were down 5.6%.  Drug overdoses were way up which isn't surprising given people were more isolated.  I don't read the Atlantic.  I don't care if you don't believe this data.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

 

According to provisional data, in 2020, there were notable changes in the number and ranking of deaths compared with 2019.5 COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death in 2020, with an estimated 345 323 deaths, and was largely responsible for the substantial increase in total deaths from 2019 to 2020. Substantial increases from 2019 to 2020 also occurred for several other leading causes. Heart disease deaths increased by 4.8%, the largest increase in heart disease deaths since 2012. Increases in deaths also occurred for unintentional injury (11.1%), Alzheimer disease (9.8%), and diabetes (15.4%). Influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2020 increased by 7.5%, although the number of deaths was lower in 2020 than in 2017 and 2018. From 2019 to 2020, deaths due to chronic lower respiratory disease declined by 3.4% and suicide deaths declined by 5.6%.

Often the drug overdoses are suicides also, just without a note. The fact that middle age men is usually the highest number of suicides and last year was so odd the numbers could be up with teens and still down overall.

[Big Blitz]

20 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

 

Sorry Bill.  You fail to see this isn't an endorsement for a flu vaccine passport.  And love the "would you favor or support a business requiring......" question.  Lol.    Many people probably said "favor" because if that's what the business wants to do.....OK.  

 

Why didn't they ask "Do you think we need flu vaccine passports?"

 

 

 

If society is essentially 55-45 split over a freaking flu vaccine passport to various venues or whatever, then you don't mandate flu vaccine passports.  How low info do you have to be to not understand this? 

 

45% of the public clearly thinks Covid isn't worth overhauling society you don't overhaul society.  

 

After almost 2 years of sickness, death, chaos, and school closures, according to Gallup, only 45% of adults think it's essentially ok if a company chooses to ask for them.

 

As if this is an issue that warrants plus one majority.   How absolutely ridiculous.

 

This should be the rule at the federal and state level.  If you want to do something big* and only 50 to 55 percent support it, it's probably best to not do it. 

 

 

 

 

*This is subjective.  But it should be obvious 

[716er]

Potentially great news here

 

 

[Big Blitz]

 

 

And yes.  I'll be calling it the flu from now on because it's never going away and saying you have Covid every year is so stupid.  

 

 

I know what would be happening if Fauci was a Trump guy.