The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 Enough already. Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates. Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again. We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot? There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now. 3 3 1
Chef Jim Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 So you're going to force people to get the flu shot every year too? Slippery slope my friend. Slippery slope. 2 1 2
Buffalo716 Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Enough already. Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates. Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again. We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot? There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now. 45 States allow religious or personal exemption from vaccines Hardly the mandatory vaccination that you're making it out to be A lot of States you just need to say it's against my belief, you don't need to take it 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Author Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: 45 States allow religious or personal exemption from vaccines Hardly the mandatory vaccination that you're making it out to be A lot of States you just need to say it's against my belief, you don't need to take it True. What I'm saying is that this is stupid policy. It has encouraged the return of ordinary childhood infectious diseases (mumps, measles). And now it will encourage the spread of COVID-19. There is an open question regarding true religious exemptions (not the generic "personal conscience" or philosophical exemptions that have swallowed the rule), but these ought to be limited to adherents to a religion with an established history of objections to a vaccine for specific doctrinal reasons. And that's a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. [By the way, I believe that critical public health considerations should outweigh even legitimate/established religious exceptions to vaccines.] 1
Buffalo716 Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: True. What I'm saying is that this is stupid policy. It has encouraged the return of ordinary childhood infectious diseases (mumps, measles). And now it will encourage the spread of COVID-19. There is an open question regarding true religious exemptions (not the generic "personal conscience" or philosophical exemptions that have swallowed the rule), but these ought to be limited to adherents to a religion with an established history of objections to a vaccine for specific doctrinal reasons. And that's a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. [By the way, I believe that critical public health considerations should outweigh even legitimate/established religious exceptions to vaccines.] And this is not a federal issue. You Will never see mandatory vaccines Nationwide This is a State issue And something that only affects half of 1% of a population.. not a strong grounds for mandatory 1 3
unbillievable Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 The government won't even make it mandatory for the military.
Big Blitz Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 Thread topic tells me I'm correct the media stoking fear and panic is working. Mitigation forever. 4 3
The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Author Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Thread topic tells me I'm correct the media stoking fear and panic is working. Mitigation forever. No. Get your damn vaccine, just like your hero Trump did. 1 2
Big Blitz Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: No. Get your damn vaccine, just like your hero Trump did. I did in March. My only fears are being validated by this thread. Mitigation forever bc the public can be played like a fiddle. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Author Posted July 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: I did in March. My only fears are being validated by this thread. Mitigation forever bc the public can be played like a fiddle. I'm glad you did. If by "mitigation" you mean all those old favorite things like social distancing, mask wearing, online school, etc., etc. - the way out of that (whether a particular mitigation strategy is warranted or not) is to get the vast majority vaccinated. Now. There's really no good excuse anymore. We have about 7 months of experience with mass vaccination with virtually nonexistent significant adverse results. 2
Big Blitz Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I'm glad you did. If by "mitigation" you mean all those old favorite things like social distancing, mask wearing, online school, etc., etc. - the way out of that There isn't. That's been my whole point since Trump's 15 days became indefinitely......with constantly moving goal posts and metrics. Edited July 20, 2021 by Big Blitz
The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Author Posted July 20, 2021 Just now, Big Blitz said: There isn't. That's been my whole point since Trump's 15 days became indefinitely Well, let's get 90+ percent vaccinated and then we'll see. You are assuming that if infection/hospitalization rates hit their late May levels and stay there we'll still be stuck with pointless mitigation theater. That's not what I saw. I saw masks come off, crowds return to baseball games and concerts, etc., etc. Which is why I'm annoyed as hell at the vaccine refusers for preventing us from making normal life a permanent thing. 1 2
Buffalo716 Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, let's get 90+ percent vaccinated and then we'll see. You are assuming that if infection/hospitalization rates hit their late May levels and stay there we'll still be stuck with pointless mitigation theater. That's not what I saw. I saw masks come off, crowds return to baseball games and concerts, etc., etc. Which is why I'm annoyed as hell at the vaccine refusers for preventing us from making normal life a permanent thing. This country chose a long time ago that a body is sacred. Women can choose to keep or not keep a child Because their body their right Same thing applies bro. You can't tell somebody what they can or can't do with their body You do realize this is America? Why are the Cuban people waving American flags in the street right now? Not because it's cute Cuz they know that flag stands for.. freedom So you can have your opinion but that's not how this country works 1 1 4
The Frankish Reich Posted July 20, 2021 Author Posted July 20, 2021 Just now, Buffalo716 said: This country chose a long time ago that a body is sacred. Women can choose to keep or not keep a child Because their body their right Same thing applies bro. You can't tell somebody what they can or can't do with their body You do realize this is America? Why are the Cuban people waving American flags in the street right now? Not because it's cute Cuz they know that flag stands for.. freedom So you can have your opinion but that's not how this country works Wrong thread for your pro-abortion rights sentiment. Actually, it has long been understood that public health measures may warrant government mandated vaccinations. As for doing what you want with your body: we also tell you you can't collect certain freely growing lifeforms and ingest them. What were historically known as the state's inherent "police powers" - the state's rights to protect the health, safety, and morals of the populace - covers all of this. 1 1
Buffalo716 Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Wrong thread for your pro-abortion rights sentiment. Actually, it has long been understood that public health measures may warrant government mandated vaccinations. As for doing what you want with your body: we also tell you you can't collect certain freely growing lifeforms and ingest them. What were historically known as the state's inherent "police powers" - the state's rights to protect the health, safety, and morals of the populace - covers all of this. No I already proved you that vaccination is a state issue not a federal issue And there's never been any forced inoculations in this country Even in a state like New York that makes you get all those standard childhood vaccinations.. you can homeschool your kid and never give him those Happens all the time So no there has never been mandated forced vaccinations across the board in this country 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 I cannot understand why anyone who is vaccinated cares if other people aren’t. Not vaccinated, don’t trust/believe in the extremely new and so far highly effective vaccine, that’s on you.. do whatever you need to protect yourself. Vaccinated or in the statistically proven un-impacted demographic… live life. this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4 different coronaviruses… 3 1 1
Big Blitz Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4 different coronaviruses… And all their actions scream "until we eradicate it." There are people that think we are going to do that. And there are people that know there is zero chance in hell that happens but will gladly take the new powers you surrendered to them. Both of those group's are spiraling us to a dark dark place - see above "let's see what happens when we get to 90% vaccinated." Lol when? How? Why 90? Israel is just about there with the adult population. Are they wide open back to normal? Nope. Variants! Breakthrough infections! It doesn't and won't end until out politicians KNOW we are fed up and done here. They know the opposite is true and it may be that only 30% of us actually still think we all need masks, they know the rest of us (especially the corporations) are all going to comply. Human nature is evil. It's even worse when you have people in charge exploiting self made crisis for political gain. They will never just "give us back our lives" or declare "it's over." I don't need to wait till "90% vaccinated" (never happening) to know this. And I don't say never happening because I don't want people to. Its just a FREAKING FACT. And so long as every "CASE!!" freaks us out, we're f...ed bc we showed them we will gladly comply with anything. 2
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I cannot understand why anyone who is vaccinated cares if other people aren’t. Not vaccinated, don’t trust/believe in the extremely new and so far highly effective vaccine, that’s on you.. do whatever you need to protect yourself. Vaccinated or in the statistically proven un-impacted demographic… live life. this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4 different coronaviruses… There's a couple concepts here: If the vaccine works then an infected person should not be able to infect you. if anyone is worried the vaccine won't protect them from the Delta variant that's a different problem. I don't remember anyone ever worrying about somebody having the flu infecting them when they got the flu shot. Or that even being mentioned. So what's so different about COVID? People with the same conditions that died of COVID also die from the flu every year. Everyone does not need to be vaccinated to reach some level of herd immunity. if you were previously infected and recover you have antibodies that grant immunity. This is what the vaccine does without the illness part. So count people with immunity not just vaccinated only. For some reason this large slice of the population is treated as if it doesn't exist. And vaccinating people that are already immune just to check off the box on somebody's clip board is a waste of resources and violates the concept of "medical necessity". If you are low risk of getting seriously sick or dying you do not need to be vaccinated. And this decision should be made by the person, family, and their doctor. Not the government's one size fits all approach to managing risk. Everyone's risk is not the same yet policy treats everyone the same. This is not sensible. This also violates the concept of "medical necessity". Almost all children under 12 fall into this category. The long term safety and side effect risks of the mRNA vaccines is unknown. This is part of the area of Gene Therapy. Its pretty much at the Wright Brothers level of development if you compare it to the aviation industry. Even the scientist that identified and perfected the mRNA technology suggested caution (although he was blocked from social media for spreading "misinformation". The guy who invented the stuff! Makes sense). I got the vaccine but I certainly don't believe all the "information" disseminated" by the various government bureaucrats. Keep your head up and don't limit your sources of information on the topic to the "official" story tellers. Most importantly if you think the government has the right to force people to get vaccinated do you think there are any limits on what the government can force you to do? What about other vaccines? What about other medical procedures? If the government can force you to do anything from a medical perspective perhaps they can decide to kill terminally ill patients upon diagnosis. No treatment or hospice. Just a trip to the back of the building for a brief ceremony and then a blindfold and firing squad. You might say that's absurd and it would never happen and its likely it won't but give them an inch and they take a mile is a fitting concept when dealing with a government that might see no limits to its power and nobody with the ability to stop them. 2 1 2
Big Blitz Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: 5. The long term safety and side effect risks of the mRNA vaccines is unknown. This is part of the area of Gene Therapy. Its pretty much at the Wright Brothers level of development if you compare it to the aviation industry. Even the scientist that identified and perfected the mRNA technology suggested caution (although he was blocked from social media for spreading "misinformation". The guy who invented the stuff! Makes sense). Is that true? Banned from social media? As to the mRNA vaccine, no one knows what they put in their body. If it's so safe then why the hold up with the FDA? What are they waiting to see? I was told by my doctor quote "the risks of Covid are more serious then the vaccine" and I hear this most everywhere. Makes no sense to me they might as well say "we don't know." They don't say it's safe. They weigh it against Covid. All the time.
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