Could CRT bring about a race war?

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

What part of CRT says you should kill people?

The part that generates conflict and hate between races through classifications like oppressor and oppressed.  That kind of mindset sets the stage for revenge.  That's the part.

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The part that generates conflict and hate between races through classifications like oppressor and oppressed.  That kind of mindset sets the stage for revenge.  That's the part.

So there hasn’t been instances of oppression based off of race? I find CRT is just becoming a catch all for wokeness and not an actual discussion of the theory as a study of law and how laws were made.

[Frat-Train]

30 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

From my reading about the topic it is an academic discipline taught in law schools so I am not sure what website and content you are referring to as I am not aware of it being nearly as centralized as you are making it seem. Genuinely asking if you have taken a course on this or have some direct information?

 

It seems like a rather esoteric boogyman to scare white people into thinking their schools are going to tell their white children they are racist. When in reality schools aren't teaching a law school discipline at a K-12 level other than maybe in an AP Law class in a very small amount of schools as part of a wider analysis. 

I have.  You can pay to have the curriculum taught in a corporate setting, which is the same content that is being taught in schools that have accepted the curriculum, just applied in business settings.  My company is very focused on diversity and inclusion.  We brought in a group to teach those curriculums.  Part of what they taught on day(s) four and five was CRT.  I can personally speak to the content and my team’s reaction to it.  It was very divisive and left the entire team at a loss.  Their website does not accurately reflect the teachpoints of CRT.  What’s worse, is 50% of my team is Asian.  They felt their mere presence contradicted the entire premise, which I too subscribe to.  That and telling me that I’ve been oppressed because of my skin color, despite my success in life.  Also, the anti-Christian viewpoints are very real.  In our second breakout session, our facilitator got into quite a spat due to her comments on Billy Graham’s ministry and how it did not do enough for black people.  My company is in NC.  Suffice to say our facilitator won’t be invited back, now will we take part in future trainings with that curriculum.

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

So there hasn’t been instances of oppression based off of race? I find CRT is just becoming a catch all for wokeness and not an actual discussion of the theory as a study of law and how laws were made.

I would say that is Critical Theory.  It’s been branded towards the focus of race, but what many on this forum are doing is intertwining the two.  Critical theory is a sociology-economic study from Frankfurt that studies all facts of a philosophical approach to history and ideological studies.  There’s much good to come from it.  Critical Race Theory goes down a hole where the philosophical approach turns quickly into assumptions.  

[Wacka]

If anybody, I should hate Germans and Russians.  Don't know  app much about dad's side, but they probably cane over here from Poland in the 1890s.  Mother's  father came over here from Poland around 1910. There was no Poland then, it was occupied by Germany and Russia. He was about 20 and war was brewing even then. He didn't want to serve in the German army so he found a way to come here.  Only spoke and read a few words of english.  Taught himself, there was no TV or radio then. Got a job a Buffalo Forge as a tinsmith and made enough to raise a family of nine kids.

 

The white people pushing the CRT crap are self hating people  whose ancestors probably  were democrats who did do all that stuff to blacks.  Not mine.

[All_Pro_Bills]

39 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

So there hasn’t been instances of oppression based off of race? I find CRT is just becoming a catch all for wokeness and not an actual discussion of the theory as a study of law and how laws were made.

That's not what I'm saying.  The argument I'm consistently challenged with from some other posters is focused on a continuous historical retrospective and historical references which insist that past indiscretions should be blamed for present problems.  The idea being past racism explains all current problems.  And there is no time element associated with this past racism.  It could be 10 years and its still there.  It could be 160 years and it's still the dominant characteristic of culture.  Perhaps people in the future will argue its still there after a 1,000 years and more.  Who knows? 

 

Look, my life is far from perfect but I'm not sitting around holding a grudge against the Ottoman Empire for what they did to my ancestors 120 years ago and blaming them for why I didn't qualify for that home loan 15 years ago or why I didn't get into a better college.  At some point it might be time to move on from chasing the ghosts of racism-past and move on to resolving some resolvable problems like improving education and income levels and addressing the fundamental causes and consequences of poverty issues.  If people insist on blaming racism for all that ails society its a certainty that nothing will ever, ever get fixed.  

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

From my reading about the topic it is an academic discipline taught in law schools so I am not sure what website and content you are referring to as I am not aware of it being nearly as centralized as you are making it seem. Genuinely asking if you have taken a course on this or have some direct information?

 

It seems like a rather esoteric boogyman to scare white people into thinking their schools are going to tell their white children they are racist. When in reality schools aren't teaching a law school discipline at a K-12 level other than maybe in an AP Law class in a very small amount of schools as part of a wider analysis. 

 

So what will they be teaching?

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The part that generates conflict and hate between races through classifications like oppressor and oppressed.  That kind of mindset sets the stage for revenge.  That's the part.

Well, up until recently there was a race based institutionalized system of oppressor and oppressed. Have to teach that and how it has led to the problems in black community today, right? 

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's not what I'm saying.  The argument I'm consistently challenged with from some other posters is focused on a continuous historical retrospective and historical references which insist that past indiscretions should be blamed for present problems.  The idea being past racism explains all current problems.  And there is no time element associated with this past racism.  It could be 10 years and its still there.  It could be 160 years and it's still the dominant characteristic of culture.  Perhaps people in the future will argue its still there after a 1,000 years and more.  Who knows? 

 

Look, my life is far from perfect but I'm not sitting around holding a grudge against the Ottoman Empire for what they did to my ancestors 120 years ago and blaming them for why I didn't qualify for that home loan 15 years ago or why I didn't get into a better college.  At some point it might be time to move on from chasing the ghosts of racism-past and move on to resolving some resolvable problems like improving education and income levels and addressing the fundamental causes and consequences of poverty issues.  If people insist on blaming racism for all that ails society its a certainty that nothing will ever, ever get fixed.  

Oh, but if ones father was forced to live in poverty their children were denied a lot of positive social experiences that help lift people into better careers. My dad had a great job, went to great schools and showed me they way from his experience. If he was black he would have lived in much worse conditions, or just got tossed in jail

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Well, up until recently there was a race based institutionalized system of oppressor and oppressed. Have to teach that and how it has led to the problems in black community today, right? 

 

Yes you are right.  Now why are you certain that this his how it will be taught?  Do you have no concern as to how this will be presented?  You actually have faith in a system that has "created" wokeness to do the right thing?  You are one naive child if you do.  

[JaCrispy]

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Well, up until recently there was a race based institutionalized system of oppressor and oppressed. Have to teach that and how it has led to the problems in black community today, right? 

Oh, but if ones father was forced to live in poverty their children were denied a lot of positive social experiences that help lift people into better careers. My dad had a great job, went to great schools and showed me they way from his experience. If he was black he would have lived in much worse conditions, or just got tossed in jail

What you're suggesting is conjecture and speculation.  Your father would have been put in jail if he was black?  I would frankly prefer to hear his perspective on that time and the events of it rather than his son's view.  As per prison, although stats are hard to come by my best guess using available sources would put 1960 prison population in the ballpark of around 65% White.   

The existence of institutions such as separate but equal are well documented and are no secret to anyone.  I learned of this in high school (and believe it or not we also learned about the Native American tribes that inhabited the area).  And also gained awareness of social issues through involvement in the labor union and civil rights movements in my younger days.  And as a result met and socialized with people then that lived under the system. 

But these social arrangements were outlawed with the civil rights acts of the mid-1960's.  So its been about 55 years or 3 generations.  Anyone under about the age of about 55 has no personal experience living under such a system, the oppressor or the oppressed.  I could bump that age up to 60 to include anyone living at the time under age 5.  That's about 2/3+ of the US population. 

The activists and protesters involved in groups like BLM citing these historical wrongs (which they were) have zero life experience in that system.  Most are highly educated many with advanced degrees and grew up in higher income and middle to upper class households.  They are far from oppressed.  And strangely their confrontational approach to race relations and the pursuit of "equality" differ markedly from that of their elders.  People that experienced blatant racism and fought for rights.  So how can a system that hasn't existing for about 60 years that anyone under 55 plus up to maybe 5 more years has never experienced from any perspective have such a profound effect on the present?

Edited July 14, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[billsfan89]

16 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I actually agree with a lot of what you say...where we start to go into different directions are the ideologies of “Anti-racism” and “white privilege/white fragility”...while, technically, CRT is the study of race, and it’s impact on law or culture, these other ideologies mentioned are born out of CRT, acting as the remedy, or solution, to the “problem”...

 

Here is a short video that might add some insight, while rebutting the notion that CRT is just a legal study (Introduction to CRT)...

 

 

 

There is one book that states that CRT has bled into other disciplines, I am not really convinced of that argument based on the video I would at least need to see more evidence that it is a much wider discipline by nature. It still seems to me like CRT is an esoteric legal discipline. As far as the general "anti-woke" attitude I will agree that in some rather highly specific cases people are simply being too sensitive but a lot of times I feel like legitimate racial issues of inequality will be ignored in favor of just writing it off as "woke". As though this country doesn't have a big unaddressed racial scar and current inequities to worry about both from a class and race stand point. Yet all some conservatives will point to is that you can't make gay jokes anymore. 

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So what will they be teaching?

 

They aren't teaching CRT at any K-12 school. All the freaking out about CRT is over a small set of schools actually teaching about race relations history in the US honestly. That's not CRT that's just a good and healthy teaching of history.  

[unbillievable]

59 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

They aren't teaching CRT at any K-12 school. All the freaking out about CRT is over a small set of schools actually teaching about race relations history in the US honestly. That's not CRT that's just a good and healthy teaching of history.  

What would classify teaching (K-12) children that they are either oppressors or oppressed?

 

Also the "history" that math and science are racist because the founding principles were created by white men.

...and that hard work and showing up on time are white characteristics?

 

Those videos exist all over the internet.

 

Just sounds like you're in the camp that is trying to say that CRT doesn't exist in schools, while ignoring all the organizations that are defending it's continued teaching.

Edited July 14, 2021 by unbillievable

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, unbillievable said:

What would classify teaching (K-12) children that they are either oppressors or oppressed?

 

Also the "history" that math and science are racist because the founding principles were created by white men.

...and that hard work and showing up on time are white characteristics?

 

Those videos exist all over the internet.

 

Can you please link me to some of these videos? 

[unbillievable]

17 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Can you please link me to some of these videos? 

 

Figured that's your stance. You're burying your face in the sand.

There are a few articles in these PPP forums.

 

I'll link a few when I get back, later.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m66rcHzWaPU

https://youtu.be/OIRlbe2MGNM?t=15

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by unbillievable

[SoCal Deek]

Was everyone asleep during history class? What in the world do these CRT proponents think we were ALL being taught? Knock it off with this ‘we need to teach history crap’. We all took history! You’re not talking to people who didn’t attend school in America. We all did.

[unbillievable]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Was everyone asleep during history class? What in the world do these CRT proponents think we were ALL being taught? Knock it off with this ‘we need to teach history crap’. We all took history! You’re not talking to people who didn’t attend school in America. We all did.

 

It's an obvious attack on the foundations of America; to implement Communism.

 

The left failed in convincing people that the Constitution had to be removed. So they're attacking it's origin.

 

It's the same excuse they used last year to tear down statues of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln, when it was unthinkable only a year prior.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

 

They aren't teaching CRT at any K-12 school. All the freaking out about CRT is over a small set of schools actually teaching about race relations history in the US honestly. That's not CRT that's just a good and healthy teaching of history.  

 

Exactly.  We're are not "freaking out" over the teaching of CRT.  That's what the headlines are telling you. 

 

Do you think, with the track record of our predominately liberal academia, that all they plan to do is teach race relations and not try to push an agenda/narrative?  This will likely not be just "good and healthy" teaching of history. 

[unbillievable]

Tell me if I'm summarizing the argument correctly.

 

Right: we want to ban CRT

Left: CRT doesn't exist.

Right: Here's a video of a teacher pushing CRT

Left: that's not CRT

Right: okay, we still want to ban whatever that is

Left: you can't ban history

[Governor]

47 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Tell me if I'm summarizing the argument correctly.

 

Right: we want to ban CRT

Left: CRT doesn't exist.

Right: Here's a video of a teacher pushing CRT

Left: that's not CRT

Right: okay, we still want to ban whatever that is

Left: you can't ban history

They aren’t just banning CRT, they’re going a step further with their own indoctrination. 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

Figured that's your stance. You're burying your face in the sand.

There are a few articles in these PPP forums.

 

I'll link a few when I get back, later.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m66rcHzWaPU

https://youtu.be/OIRlbe2MGNM?t=15

 

 

It isn't burying your head in the sand to genuinely ask how widespread these examples are. Is this a big enough problem to justify such widespread panic? Even in that first video you linked it doesn't show anyone actually teaching CRT it is just a parent complaining about it without citing what specifically is being taught to his kids that he specifically objects to. 

 

Are there likely cases of bad teaching of race in America at the K-12 level? Yes, and I would encourage every single parent to make sure their kids curriculum makes sense. But is this related to an esoteric legal study of CRT? Probably not. In fact I would say that while there may be some school districts over correcting for not teaching enough about the history of race and the current role of race in America that the more widespread issue is the lack of teaching proper history about race in many American schools.

 

I would say that it is a bigger issue that only 8% of high school seniors can identify slavery as the central cause of the Civil War than random sparse examples of so called "CRT."

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2018-02-01/students-dont-know-slavery-was-a-central-cause-of-the-civil-war-report-shows 

Edited July 14, 2021 by billsfan89