Beast Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 13 hours ago, Doc Brown said: If execs think that much of Edmunds trade him now while his stock is high. Darius Leonard and a first would suffice. Yes, let's trade our second best defensive player before a season where we are contenders. The men in the locker room will just LOVE that. 1 1
Shaw66 Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: All these types of lists are based on biased opinions, (just like our own opinions) there are no absolutes involved, Josh ranked at #9 is because many pundits are still hoping Josh regresses, (the I told you so group) and that it’s the Buffalo Bills after all… it’s gonna take a SB win and or a few more successful seasons for the stain of the drought years to fade, sad yet true. Go Bills!!! Well, I agree that's true about the press. But when we're talking about the opinions of coaches and GMs, I disagree. They study more film in a month than any of us watches in years. I say "study" and "watches" deliberately; they not only look at a lot more film, they actually understand what they're looking at. Do some of them still have biases? Of course, but even many of those biases are based on legitimate opinions they've developed watching these guys play. So, I agree with others when I see someone ranked Allen 9th. That's a coach or scout or GM saying he would take eight guys over Allen. I'm hard pressed to see how that could be, whether it's a guy you, want for one game, one season, or one career. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, okay. Herbert is a stretch. Watson is a stretch. Every other guy is a stretch. You have to stretch on FIVE guys to conclude Allen is ninth. I don't get that. Edited July 13, 2021 by Shaw66
Doc Brown Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Beast said: Yes, let's trade our second best defensive player before a season where we are contenders. The men in the locker room will just LOVE that. You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first? Are you nuts?
JerseyBills Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 People on here might know I love Edmunds and this just confirms that he is the real deal. Even ranked #1 , I think any team would gladly take Edmunds. Rare athletic ability combined with freakish size , leader with great work ethic. His best football is ahead of him and I anticipate he'll be in the debate as the best Mike LB in the game for years to come. Love the quote that White is the Tim Duncan of the NFL. That's extremely high praise. Duncan was often called Mr Fundamentals in basketball circles and is regarded as one of the best Power Forwards of All Time! Add Diggs in and That's 5 guys who are considered the best at their position! I'd also add Beasley, Poyer,Milano and Daryl Williams if he has another big year! We are so deep. One guy I think will be on this list next year is Ed Oliver. I think this is his breakout year and he'll be another cornerstone player for a legit SB contender
Big Blitz Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, JerseyBills said: One guy I think will be on this list next year is Ed Oliver. I think this is his breakout year and he'll be another cornerstone player for a legit SB contender Correct if Oliver makes this list next year we're going to the Super Bowl.
Don Otreply Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Well, I agree that's true about the press. But when we're talking about the opinions of coaches and GMs, I disagree. They study more film in a month than any of us watches in years. I say "study" and "watches" deliberately; they not only look at a lot more film, they actually understand what they're looking at. Do some of them still have biases? Of course, but even many of those biases are based on legitimate opinions they've developed watching these guys play. So, I agree with others when I see someone ranked Allen 9th. That's a coach or scout or GM saying he would take eight guys over Allen. I'm hard pressed to see how that could be, whether it's a guy you, want for one game, one season, or one career. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, okay. Herbert is a stretch. Watson is a stretch. Every other guy is a stretch. You have to stretch on FIVE guys to conclude Allen is ninth. I don't get that. You are correct, they do indeed “study” film, as opposed to me.., and it is a stretch as you say.
Beast Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first? Are you nuts? Made up, hypothetical trades. OK. Why don’t you just throw Quenton Nelson in the mix while you are at it? My point still stands.
Buffalo716 Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 4:20 PM, stosh64 said: People actually pay to read espn? I get all the extra scouting reports on HS players not from my area so ESPN + is a bonus And I get boxing cards with it
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 4:20 PM, stosh64 said: People actually pay to read espn? It comes as part of the Disney + bundle with hulu, so kinda just a throw in for me, prolly similar to others here as well?
DCofNC Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 4:06 PM, HereComesTheReignAgain said: I hate to be negative in an otherwise fun topic, but who the hell had Allen ranked 9th?! Has to be somebody that’s looking at longer term production. I could see the argument that one year should not vault you to elite status. I mean, in all honesty, if you look around the league, there could be arguments, based on long(er) term success for: Maholmes Rodgers Wilson Watson Brady Jackson 🤣🤮 Ryan Dak Baker Cousins and I’m sure Tannehill is mindlessly thrown in for some people. they all have a longer resume than Allen in terms of “success”. I don’t agree with it, but I can see where the argument comes from. I could see somebody, non-biased, ranking him anywhere from #2 to #6 and I could not blame them. For me, the only clear cut pick is Maholmes is #1. After that, take your pick of Rodgers, Allen, Watson, Wilson and even though I don’t think he quite belongs in the conversation anymore, Brady. It’s all about opinion on those guys. 1
Shaw66 Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Has to be somebody that’s looking at longer term production. I could see the argument that one year should not vault you to elite status. I mean, in all honesty, if you look around the league, there could be arguments, based on long(er) term success for: Maholmes Rodgers Wilson Watson Brady Jackson 🤣🤮 Ryan Dak Baker Cousins and I’m sure Tannehill is mindlessly thrown in for some people. they all have a longer resume than Allen in terms of “success”. I don’t agree with it, but I can see where the argument comes from. I could see somebody, non-biased, ranking him anywhere from #2 to #6 and I could not blame them. For me, the only clear cut pick is Maholmes is #1. After that, take your pick of Rodgers, Allen, Watson, Wilson and even though I don’t think he quite belongs in the conversation anymore, Brady. It’s all about opinion on those guys. Well, sure, that's the list of possibilities. But as I suggested, I think the question has to be answered in terms of who you would take if you could have anyone, and the question is three parts: for one game, for the 2021 season, and if you're building a team for the future. As I said, it's a stretch to take several of these guys over Allen. Dak is a stretch, but at least I can see the resume argument, and at his best, Dak has been superb. However, over their last 20-30 games, Dak's best hasn't md Allen's. Baker, you just have to make up arguments; the only way one can prefer Baker is if you compare his 10 best games to Allen's 10 worst. Cousins, too. It would be pure fiction to argue Cousins is better for a game, a season, or a career. Ryan? What Ryan looked like he was 6 or 7 years ago? Okay. But Ryan for the past five years? No. As for Jackson, everyone knows that we're at the end of the Lamar Jackson era. 2
Stank_Nasty Posted July 14, 2021 Author Posted July 14, 2021 https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31739496/ranking-nfl-top-10-wide-receivers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks 3. Stefon Diggs, Buffalo Bills Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 8 Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention Some evaluators wondered aloud how Diggs would handle Buffalo, a new offense and a (then) inaccurate quarterback in Josh Allen after the trade from Minnesota. Answer: Like an elite receiver should. Diggs vaulted from fringe top-10 guy to one of the game's best thanks to a truly dominant season. Allen's new BFF led the league in targets (166), catches (127) and receiving yards (1,535). "Years ago, one of [Minnesota's] receivers got hurt and they put in this new receiver, Diggs," recalled a veteran AFC defensive coach. "Smaller guy, more of a slot receiver at the time -- we figured it shouldn't be a problem. We get in the game and he had a pretty damn good day. He's been [great] ever since." Diggs produced 20.3 receptions above expected, per NFL Next Gen Stats, by far the highest clip in the NFL. Though Diggs was unhappy in Minnesota, those who coached him or followed him closely knew he would thrive when made the focal point of a high-level offense. He was a primary option for the Vikings but he shared that role with Adam Thielen. "He's so competitive that his demeanor and ability had the opposite effect that some thought -- he lifted the entire offense up with his standard of play and his ability to get open and make tough catches," an AFC exec said. Added an AFC coordinator: "Practices like every day is a game. He's known for that. Really quick, great route runner, knack for getting open."
Royale with Cheese Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 20 hours ago, Doc Brown said: You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first? Are you nuts? I would not trade a first for a Linebacker that doesn’t terrorize a QB.
GunnerBill Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31739496/ranking-nfl-top-10-wide-receivers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks 3. Stefon Diggs, Buffalo Bills Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 8 Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention Some evaluators wondered aloud how Diggs would handle Buffalo, a new offense and a (then) inaccurate quarterback in Josh Allen after the trade from Minnesota. Answer: Like an elite receiver should. Diggs vaulted from fringe top-10 guy to one of the game's best thanks to a truly dominant season. Allen's new BFF led the league in targets (166), catches (127) and receiving yards (1,535). "Years ago, one of [Minnesota's] receivers got hurt and they put in this new receiver, Diggs," recalled a veteran AFC defensive coach. "Smaller guy, more of a slot receiver at the time -- we figured it shouldn't be a problem. We get in the game and he had a pretty damn good day. He's been [great] ever since." Diggs produced 20.3 receptions above expected, per NFL Next Gen Stats, by far the highest clip in the NFL. Though Diggs was unhappy in Minnesota, those who coached him or followed him closely knew he would thrive when made the focal point of a high-level offense. He was a primary option for the Vikings but he shared that role with Adam Thielen. "He's so competitive that his demeanor and ability had the opposite effect that some thought -- he lifted the entire offense up with his standard of play and his ability to get open and make tough catches," an AFC exec said. Added an AFC coordinator: "Practices like every day is a game. He's known for that. Really quick, great route runner, knack for getting open." I have told this story before but my first exposure to Diggs was his rookie season. I was sitting on a tube on my way to work watching the condensed version of a Lions v Vikings game and I saw this guy I had never heard of working Darius Slay (who was one of the most unheralded elite players in the league at the time) repeatedly and just seemed to be open every down. Stef jumped off the screen as special to me instantly. 2
machine gun kelly Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 It is shocking to me (I guess I shouldn’t be at this point) that Edmunds is respected by coaches, execs, etc. and the first thought is trade him now? What? Thank god to that crowd you’re last name is not Beane. Its not like we extended him already and certainly can let the 5th year option play out. 1
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 9:10 PM, ganesh said: We need a blue chip player as a pass rusher. That is a missing piece of this team. I think coaches will rate. Rodgers, Brady, Wilson and may be Watson and Dak ahead of Josh. I think they’ve addressed that problem already. 1 of those 2 picks will certainly hit.
DCofNC Posted July 16, 2021 Posted July 16, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 10:15 AM, Shaw66 said: Well, sure, that's the list of possibilities. But as I suggested, I think the question has to be answered in terms of who you would take if you could have anyone, and the question is three parts: for one game, for the 2021 season, and if you're building a team for the future. As I said, it's a stretch to take several of these guys over Allen. Dak is a stretch, but at least I can see the resume argument, and at his best, Dak has been superb. However, over their last 20-30 games, Dak's best hasn't md Allen's. Baker, you just have to make up arguments; the only way one can prefer Baker is if you compare his 10 best games to Allen's 10 worst. Cousins, too. It would be pure fiction to argue Cousins is better for a game, a season, or a career. Ryan? What Ryan looked like he was 6 or 7 years ago? Okay. But Ryan for the past five years? No. As for Jackson, everyone knows that we're at the end of the Lamar Jackson era. I mean your criteria opens up a lot of possibilities, but I’d take Maholmes for 1 game, 2021 and for the future, so he’s the clear #1. I’d then take Brady for one game, for 2021 I’d be happy with Allen, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers and for the Future I’d take Allen because of age and attitude. I think there’s a solid argument that Watson is a better QB and the age is negligible, but Allen isn’t the Diva. So no matter how you shape it, for me, Allen is in the top 5, hard to see him much lower than that for any of the categories in your criteria.
YattaOkasan Posted July 16, 2021 Posted July 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I mean your criteria opens up a lot of possibilities, but I’d take Maholmes for 1 game, 2021 and for the future, so he’s the clear #1. I’d then take Brady for one game, for 2021 I’d be happy with Allen, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers and for the Future I’d take Allen because of age and attitude. I think there’s a solid argument that Watson is a better QB and the age is negligible, but Allen isn’t the Diva. So no matter how you shape it, for me, Allen is in the top 5, hard to see him much lower than that for any of the categories in your criteria. Brady is interesting to me. I don’t think we win as many games if Brady is our QB and I think TB wins the same or more games if Allen is QB. Do you disagree with this(which)? From that logic I have Allen > Brady.
The Dean Posted July 16, 2021 Posted July 16, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 5:09 PM, Shaw66 said: Yes, they do talk about the Bills' safeties, but it usually sounds like in their heads they're prefacing what they say with, "(For guys who aren't elite,) the Bills' safeties are very good." "(These guys aren't stars, but) Poyer and Hyde get the job done." I agree in principle with your position on the safeties. But, and this is just from my impression of what I hear/read, as a pair, they are VERY highly regarded. I recall hearing/reading things like "among the best safety duo" "maybe the best safety pair". But I believe on an individual basis, they may not be considered "elite". And I understand why some think that. Not sure that matters that much to me, though. I'll take these guys back there any time.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 16, 2021 Posted July 16, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 2:48 PM, Blainorama5 said: The fact there are multiple top 10 rankings says this is a well built team and those in the NFL agree. How many other years has that been the case? What I liked is that for most of our guys, the range was pretty small (2 to 8 or 9)
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