Ralph Wilsons Legacy

[clearwater cadet]

5 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Except that he literally set things up to ensure the team would not be easily moved from Buffalo. So your 'belief' appears to be completely unfounded. 

It's called negotiating. He was 

Its been a long time, but I don't remember him setting anything up to prevent the team from being moved, at least when they started the Toronto series.  I remember a penalty for breaking the lease  with county, but it was nothing significant.  I really don't remember anything in which he went out of his way to keep the team in WNY.  I'm sure he was a good person and good business man, I just don't think he was good owner.  I alway thought as fan we deserved better.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Except that he literally set things up to ensure the team would not be easily moved from Buffalo. So your 'belief' appears to be completely unfounded. 

It's called negotiating. He was a businessman. 

The point was the Bills weren’t going anywhere.  As you say, it was a negotiation bluff.

8 hours ago, Augie said:

 

You missed the point entirely. I don’t CARE if it was just a threat. The Bills COULD have gone but they STAYED. THAT is my bottom line. Period. 

I guess any team can go anywhere whenever then, by that argument.
 

 

[Gugny]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:35 AM, Chandler#81 said:

Ralph, more than any one person, was singularly responsible for at least 30 years of terrible, often embarrassing football.

 

This, to me, is Ralph Wilson's legacy captured in one sentence.

[BuffaloBill]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:47 AM, KzooMike said:

As I sit here in what I consider to be the arm pit of Ohio, Toledo, a city of 276k, packed with probably as many restaurants as it has citizens. Median household income of 37k. How is that even possible? Then I look at Buffalo and go figure, exact same population and exact same median income. I also understand like any city outlying suburbs have more money. About double the median income, again, no different than Toledo. I also understand the impacts of Buffalo having Rochester, Syracuse, and Toronto close by. Toledo is blocked by the Lions about an hour north, Cleveland an hour and half east, but you aren't getting near a pro football team anywhere inside an hours drive. Again, not all that different on distance compared to the outside populations that support the Bills. This is probably the biggest edge Buffalo has in a debate of why they should have a pro football team vs a city like Toledo that is so similar. 

 

I'm 30 years into this, like Ralph, from the Detroit area. I understand Ralph was a cheap and meddling owner and he drove us bat crazy. That said, I don't think I have read one positive post about Ralph Wilson since Terry grabbed the torch. I don't see Bills fans as thankful for what Ralph gave us and that's not what I have come to associate myself with in being a Bills fan. We are a die hard, loyal, appreciative group.

 

Can we start appreciating Ralph for what he did and not the things he failed at doing? If the NFL picked a location for each team starting anew, Buffalo isn't on the list. They aren't even on the 2nd list. Ralph put Buffalo on the list and he kept us there. I don't care about the ways he failed. What he did for WNY is special and it should always be considered special. 

 

 

I agree with your premise. However, remember when the Bills landed a franchise in Buffalo the city was considered large and it was projected to grow. Decades later, throw in high taxes, climate and the appeal of coastal cities (in general) and your story takes on a new meaning. Upstate New York is over ally impacted by its history (politics) and climate. It has been unable to emerge from either.

 

[JMF2006]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:47 AM, KzooMike said:

As I sit here in what I consider to be the arm pit of Ohio, Toledo, a city of 276k, packed with probably as many restaurants as it has citizens. Median household income of 37k. How is that even possible? Then I look at Buffalo and go figure, exact same population and exact same median income. I also understand like any city outlying suburbs have more money. About double the median income, again, no different than Toledo. I also understand the impacts of Buffalo having Rochester, Syracuse, and Toronto close by. Toledo is blocked by the Lions about an hour north, Cleveland an hour and half east, but you aren't getting near a pro football team anywhere inside an hours drive. Again, not all that different on distance compared to the outside populations that support the Bills. This is probably the biggest edge Buffalo has in a debate of why they should have a pro football team vs a city like Toledo that is so similar. 

 

I'm 30 years into this, like Ralph, from the Detroit area. I understand Ralph was a cheap and meddling owner and he drove us bat crazy. That said, I don't think I have read one positive post about Ralph Wilson since Terry grabbed the torch. I don't see Bills fans as thankful for what Ralph gave us and that's not what I have come to associate myself with in being a Bills fan. We are a die hard, loyal, appreciative group.

 

Can we start appreciating Ralph for what he did and not the things he failed at doing? If the NFL picked a location for each team starting anew, Buffalo isn't on the list. They aren't even on the 2nd list. Ralph put Buffalo on the list and he kept us there. I don't care about the ways he failed. What he did for WNY is special and it should always be considered special. 

 

I have seen lots of positive posts about Ralph.

 

We the fans have Ralph to thank for inserting the "Poison Pill" in the lease deal which made it prohibitively expensive to relocate this franchise after the sale in case of an outside buyer obtaining control.

 

Plus Ralphs  legacy lives on in Buffalo with his charitable foundation .

 

Ralph was like the guy with the 2m house working a 65k per year job....enough money to get by but not truly rich until he sells.

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

I think that Ralph was a good man and a great  businessman. If Ralph had 100 lives, he would be rich 100 times.

 

I am also of the opinion that Ralph was senile for some time before he died. Does anyone remember when he said that he needed to get "more involved?" What a mess that turned out to be! Hiring Levy/Jauron was probably the dumbest move I have ever seen any sports franchise make. It made hiring the lazy, useless Rex Ryan look like a smart move in comparison. Levy was clearly overmatched and done at the time. 

 

But, even given the above; I will always be grateful to him for keeping the Bills where they are, and even still think of the stadium as "The Ralph."

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I always thought that Ralph has somewhat of a complicated legacy because when you look at Ralph the person he did some great things for WNY.  When you look at Ralph as the football owner he was not very good for most of his tenure.  
 

Where it gets complicated is that you can’t take one part and not the other.  So you can’t say he should be celebrated as owner for his charity and keeping the team in Buffalo without recognizing the immense damage he did to the franchise for nearly 2 decades toward the end of his tenure.

 

You also can’t say he was a terrible owner without recognizing that there might not be a football team in Buffalo otherwise.  
 

One thing is for certain though - the drought years which were the darkest and most frustrating time for most Bills fans of the modern generation were 110% Ralph’s fault.  His stubbornness, ignorance and overall incompetence did a lot of damage to the franchise.

 

Perhaps it’s his generosity to local colleges and charities, but I feel many often dance around the elephant in the room.

Good points made, for Ralph, every period of success he and the Bills had, it was followed by decades of mediocrity, he never seemed all that interested in the sustained success thing.
 

I just assumed he was busy making even more money in his other endeavors, so the Bills were literally just a hobby for him, so it really never mattered that much to his portfolio. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

I have seen lots of positive posts about Ralph.

 

We the fans have Ralph to thank for inserting the "Poison Pill" in the lease deal which made it prohibitively expensive to relocate this franchise after the sale in case of an outside buyer obtaining control.

 

Plus Ralphs  legacy lives on in Buffalo with his charitable foundation .

 

Ralph was like the guy with the 2m house working a 65k 20-40 million dollar per year job....enough money to get by but not truly rich until he sells.

 

 

 

Fixed for accuracy.

[Wacka]

He was the biggest donor to WNY Hospice.  His foundation is  paying for the redoing LaSalle Park  on the waterfront. Also bailed out the *Patriots when they almost went under in the early 60s.

[May Day 10]

Wilson didnt insert the NRA fee amount.  That side of the negotiation would be pressed by the county.  That would be like negotiating for higher rates on your car.  The Bills ask for money, the County/State demands more assurance.   What happened, was Wilson passed before the paint was dry on the renovations, creating a daunting lame duck period for an out-of-town owner, or a pricey buyout to be combined with relocation fees, new facility, and purchase price.

 

The most important factor in the Bills remaining in Buffalo is/was the existence of Terry Pegula and his financial situation.

 

Wilson always said the Bills would be sold to the highest bidder, and that they were.  The perfect storm of the timing of his death created an ideal situation that didnt make this thing overly appealing for out-of-town bidders.  Had he passed away in 2008, 2011, or 2020, it would have been a much different story.  Without Pegula, who knows?

 

Wilson never moved the team, and good on him.  I do think over the years he was wasnt wired to make a huge splash and up-front financial commitment it would take to relocate an NFL team.  Instead of dealing with a brand new stadium and forking over relocation fees, he seemed content to just collect his yearly profit and watch the team value increase steadily.  

[Wagon Circler]

In 1959 when the Bills were founded, Buffalo was the 14th largest city in the country. It was no huge largess putting a team there. People act like he did us a favor.

[DeltaDigital]

Catch 22... he was the worst owner in pro sports after 1995. Had he sold when his time was up (Looking at you jerry jones) the Team might not be in Buffalo... so while he was a trash owner for the last 20 years of his ownership, his legacy now is that he held out long enough to ensure continuity for buffalo. 17 years of non competitive football be dammed, I'd say it worked out. 

 

[clearwater cadet]

8 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

I have seen lots of positive posts about Ralph.

 

We the fans have Ralph to thank for inserting the "Poison Pill" in the lease deal which made it prohibitively expensive to relocate this franchise after the sale in case of an outside buyer obtaining control.

 

Plus Ralphs  legacy lives on in Buffalo with his charitable foundation .

 

Ralph was like the guy with the 2m house working a 65k per year job....enough money to get by but not truly rich until he sells.

 

 

What was the poison pill in the lease deal?  I remember it slightly, but I don't remember being such a big amount that it would deter anyone with the ability to buy a team for moving them thou?

4 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Wilson didnt insert the NRA fee amount.  That side of the negotiation would be pressed by the county.  That would be like negotiating for higher rates on your car.  The Bills ask for money, the County/State demands more assurance.   What happened, was Wilson passed before the paint was dry on the renovations, creating a daunting lame duck period for an out-of-town owner, or a pricey buyout to be combined with relocation fees, new facility, and purchase price.

 

The most important factor in the Bills remaining in Buffalo is/was the existence of Terry Pegula and his financial situation.

 

Wilson always said the Bills would be sold to the highest bidder, and that they were.  The perfect storm of the timing of his death created an ideal situation that didnt make this thing overly appealing for out-of-town bidders.  Had he passed away in 2008, 2011, or 2020, it would have been a much different story.  Without Pegula, who knows?

 

Wilson never moved the team, and good on him.  I do think over the years he was wasnt wired to make a huge splash and up-front financial commitment it would take to relocate an NFL team.  Instead of dealing with a brand new stadium and forking over relocation fees, he seemed content to just collect his yearly profit and watch the team value increase steadily.  

Ted Rogers passing had a lot to do with it as well.

5 hours ago, Wacka said:

He was the biggest donor to WNY Hospice.  His foundation is  paying for the redoing LaSalle Park  on the waterfront. Also bailed out the *Patriots when they almost went under in the early 60s.

Think it was the Raiders not the Pats?

[Wacka]

30 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

 

Think it was the Raiders not the Pats?

Both

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, clearwater cadet said:

What was the poison pill in the lease deal?  I remember it slightly, but I don't remember being such a big amount that it would deter anyone with the ability to buy a team for moving them thou?

Ted Rogers passing had a lot to do with it as well.

Think it was the Raiders not the Pats?

It was both.

[Green Lightning]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:35 AM, Chandler#81 said:

??😳 

I don’t know of anyone here who’s old enough to personally know the history of the team, that doesn’t appreciate Ralphs’ commitment to WNY. But the warts are plenty.

*Routinely threatened to move the team

*Consistent meddling in the team operation with disastrous results

*Put friends in high places with little to no experience-including Head Coach!

*Notoriously cheap in contract negotiations 

 

Ralph, more than any one person, was singularly responsible for at least 30 years of terrible, often embarrassing football. At the root of it all, he wanted to own the Lions. (See our original uniforms) Under the gun to name a host city by Lamar Hunt, his Miami preference fell through and we were his default position. He never called Buffalo home and never wanted to. Yes, he was charitable. He was instrumental ($$) in keeping the AFL afloat. He brought us The Bills! He made sure the team would stay here following his death. For these actions alone, he’s a positive part of the WNY story. But the ‘Good’ legacy ends there.

 

I don’t miss him.

I lived through all of that as well. But without him we'd have no pro football. The way he set his estate all but assured the Bills would be here. I am eternally grateful to Ralph, warts and all. Hey, we went to 4 straight SBs and took two AFL championships. The game passed him by but learned how to endeavor to persevere and live to see the team we have now. I chose to look forward and that is only possible thanks to Ralph. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Wagon Circler said:

In 1959 when the Bills were founded, Buffalo was the 14th largest city in the country. It was no huge largess putting a team there. People act like he did us a favor.

 

It was 39th by 1980.  The largess wasn't initially putting the team in Buffalo.

[Wagon Circler]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It was 39th by 1980.  The largess wasn't initially putting the team in Buffalo.

So he was going to move with an 80,000 seat stadium that was 8 years old?

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, Wagon Circler said:

So he was going to move with an 80,000 seat stadium that was 8 years old?

 

That was meant to illustrate that Buffalo didn't remain the 14th largest city for long.  But OK, how about 50th in population by 1990? 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Doc

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I think people have missed out on his greatest achievement.  He was instrumental in negotiating revenue sharing between the franchises.  That is his greatest legacy.