Ralph Wilsons Legacy

[Augie]

23 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Some really good responses. I understand the polarizing nature of all of it. Some of you just know more about Ralph and the story than I do. All I know, even not being a WNY native, if the team ever left Buffalo it would be over for me. I'm just very thankful that we have our team. 

 

Ralph was cheap. And Ralph was also generous. If he was ALL about the money, the Bills would have been moved many years ago. If you think he made a lot of money when his estate sold the team for $1.4 Billion, tell me how much he could have made had he moved to a large market like LA. Then he gave most of that money away to good causes.

 

But he was also cheap, and not a great owner. OK, a BAD and often meddling owner, who was capable of great generosity. Both of these things can be true, and I think you’d need to know the man to understand the full picture. 

 

The bottom line to me is that the team is still in WNY and I am still 100% behind them. That’s good enough to me, the rest is forgiven. Thank you Ralph for making this come true. 

 

 

.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Augie

[cba fan]

12 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

I never understand the concept of giving thanks & praise to Wilson for “keeping” the Bills in Buffalo. His $25,000 investment in the Bills turned into  a billion dollar + financial bonanza for him. Isn’t that thanks enough. So many people have done so much more and received far far less in financial award for their efforts & sacrifice. One of the cheapest, most meddlesome owners in NFL history reaped much more than he deserved.

Agreed and all this revisionist history that Ralph put in place for Bills to remain in Buffalo after his death is very wrong.

He set in place the team going to highest bidder regardless of bidder.

 

He was against the 400 million penalty for moving that the county insisted on for last lease he signed with them. He knew that would turn bidders away and he wanted it to go for max price.

 

Even that had a loophole to get out. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/buffalo-bills-stadium-site-owner-sale-of-team-design-firm-aecom-new-york-area-ralph-wilson-toronto/wfd8lkhcgoz1225umnxg0fok

Edited July 12, 2021 by cba fan

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Where did the "Ralph is cheap" come from anyway? I mean was it something that a few fans started to say and it spread from there? I guess it had to be because Hard for me to think the any reporter from the media would say something like that. 

 

 

I think it was co-created by people who didn't know how to quantify his issues and those who wanted to create a defense for him.

 

You could always point to a bunch of times where he spent big money..........the parity encouraging system of the NFL makes it more than an accident when you end up with opportunities to get star players.........and star players will get paid.

 

Then you could always point to embarrassingly cheap things he did...........like getting beaten by the ***** Montreal Alouettes of the CFL for #1 overall pick Tom Cousineau.  Or getting players like Cribbs and Kelly poached by the upstart USFL. 

 

But it was never just about being cheap..........it was about bad football decisions and a lot of them just happened to involve being cheap.

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think it was co-created by people who didn't know how to quantify his issues and those who wanted to create a defense for him.

 

You could always point to a bunch of times where he spent big money..........the parity encouraging system of the NFL makes it more than an accident when you end up with opportunities to get star players.........and star players will get paid.

 

Then you could always point to embarrassingly cheap things he did...........like getting beaten by the ***** Montreal Alouettes of the CFL for #1 overall pick Tom Cousineau.  Or getting players like Cribbs and Kelly poached by the upstart USFL. 

 

But it was never just about being cheap..........it was about bad football decisions and a lot of them just happened to involve being cheap.

his "cash to cap" spending philosophy took Bills out of running for FA's and exiled them to mediocrity for approx. two decades.

It was a good plan "IF" he could have gotten the other teams to follow it. But only a couple did. Bengals for one. Not a winning model to follow. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

For those knocking Buffalo as a city for the franchise, those were different times. Lamar Hunt specifically targeted Buffalo. There was already a strong tradition of pro football in the city and region.  It was the 20th largest city in the country in 1960, and was still an industrial powerhouse up until that time. 
 

so, yeah, Wilson bought a team in Buffalo, but it was a great investment in a strategic market. 

[BornAgainBillsFan]

21 hours ago, Beast said:

Always thankful for Ralph. I cursed his name many times but I have a hometown football team to root for because of the man. (and the Pegula's)

THIS^^^^^^^

 

I've heaped praise upon the Pegulas in this forum for preventing this team from becoming the Toronto Rockers in October of 2014, and keeping my beloved hometown team in my beloved hometown. So I must do the same for Mr. Wilson for the previous 60 years. I hope he's getting a kick out of watching Josh ball out from that great luxury box in the sky.

[Greg S]

Ralph deserves credit for keeping the team in Buffalo. His teams had their moments, 64-65 AFL champions, 80-81, the Super Bowl years but mostly he was a bad owner as the W's and L's prove.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

THIS^^^^^^^

 

I've heaped praise upon the Pegulas in this forum for preventing this team from becoming the Toronto Rockers in October of 2014, and keeping my beloved hometown team in my beloved hometown. So I must do the same for Mr. Wilson for the previous 60 years. I hope he's getting a kick out of watching Josh ball out from that great luxury box in the sky.

 

I will say that at least Ralph was competitive..........if not consistently on the field at least with his fellow owners over profits.

 

It could be worse........Cubs fans endured ownership that wasn't terribly concerned with winning for the better part of 100 years.    Imagine if the Bills were owned by a local news rag........if people think the Pegula's influence what's written in Buffalo..

 

The moral of the Cubs situation though is that it's not healthy or even appropriate to just be grateful you have something to pay for.     These owners are selling you the competitive spirit that comes with a pro sports team......it's OK to hold them to that standard.  You can appreciate the Pegula's keeping the teams in town but also know that they are possibly the worst on-ice stewards of hockey in NHL history.

[May Day 10]

Like most people, there is both good and bad with Ralph Wilson.

 

I appreciate that he is the founder of the Bills... and by all measures, the team remained here for 50+ years of his ownership and still remains.  

 

Great sports-businessman and a 'founder' of the true NFL.  The AFL story is a great one.

 

Also appreciative of the philanthropic contributions to the community.

 

 

As far as putting a winner on the field though, he was not a great owner for that.  If we had to endure another 10-20 years of how the team was run from about 2004-2013, then why bother?  Results on the field were often held back due to Wilson's personal involvement.  When they were humming under Polian, wilson put a stick in the spokes, then again under Butler.  Late 60s through the 70s were also really bad.   

 

I truly believe Wilson had figured/planned on the Bills getting sold to Ted Rogers and moved to Toronto upon his passing.  The Toronto series was basically a dry run and showcase for the city of Toronto.  I don't think it was ill intent by Wilson, just the logical direction everything was pointing.  Rogers, though had passed away earlier than expected, his family kind of a mess, and the pricing structure and irrelevance of the Bills hurt the optics of the Toronto series.

 

We also got very fortunate the Bills were able to remain with the perfect-storm timing of the new lease, NRA, and Mr. Wilson's death.  That along with Pegula coming onto the scene as a guy with like $7 Billion, much liquid and loving sports and Buffalo made it virtually impossible for an outside interest to buy and move the team (and build a stadium elsewhere).  

 

 

Overall, I look at it like the Bills are a thing I love.  Wilson is the father of the Bills, and they are still here.  As much as I sounded off on Wilson during the whole Russ Brandon pretend-GM era, I view him in a positive light.

[4_kidd_4]

Still like Ralph better than zero personality Terry LaMoolah. 

 

 

[JohnNord]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:47 AM, KzooMike said:

As I sit here in what I consider to be the arm pit of Ohio, Toledo, a city of 276k, packed with probably as many restaurants as it has citizens. Median household income of 37k. How is that even possible? Then I look at Buffalo and go figure, exact same population and exact same median income. I also understand like any city outlying suburbs have more money. About double the median income, again, no different than Toledo. I also understand the impacts of Buffalo having Rochester, Syracuse, and Toronto close by. Toledo is blocked by the Lions about an hour north, Cleveland an hour and half east, but you aren't getting near a pro football team anywhere inside an hours drive. Again, not all that different on distance compared to the outside populations that support the Bills. This is probably the biggest edge Buffalo has in a debate of why they should have a pro football team vs a city like Toledo that is so similar. 

 

I'm 30 years into this, like Ralph, from the Detroit area. I understand Ralph was a cheap and meddling owner and he drove us bat crazy. That said, I don't think I have read one positive post about Ralph Wilson since Terry grabbed the torch. I don't see Bills fans as thankful for what Ralph gave us and that's not what I have come to associate myself with in being a Bills fan. We are a die hard, loyal, appreciative group.

 

Can we start appreciating Ralph for what he did and not the things he failed at doing? If the NFL picked a location for each team starting anew, Buffalo isn't on the list. They aren't even on the 2nd list. Ralph put Buffalo on the list and he kept us there. I don't care about the ways he failed. What he did for WNY is special and it should always be considered special. 

I always thought that Ralph has somewhat of a complicated legacy because when you look at Ralph the person he did some great things for WNY.  When you look at Ralph as the football owner he was not very good for most of his tenure.  
 

Where it gets complicated is that you can’t take one part and not the other.  So you can’t say he should be celebrated as owner for his charity and keeping the team in Buffalo without recognizing the immense damage he did to the franchise for nearly 2 decades toward the end of his tenure.

 

You also can’t say he was a terrible owner without recognizing that there might not be a football team in Buffalo otherwise.  
 

One thing is for certain though - the drought years which were the darkest and most frustrating time for most Bills fans of the modern generation were 110% Ralph’s fault.  His stubbornness, ignorance and overall incompetence did a lot of damage to the franchise.

 

Perhaps it’s his generosity to local colleges and charities, but I feel many often dance around the elephant in the room.

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Like most people, there is both good and bad with Ralph Wilson.

 

I appreciate that he is the founder of the Bills... and by all measures, the team remained here for 50+ years of his ownership and still remains.  

 

Great sports-businessman and a 'founder' of the true NFL.  The AFL story is a great one.

 

Also appreciative of the philanthropic contributions to the community.

 

 

As far as putting a winner on the field though, he was not a great owner for that.  If we had to endure another 10-20 years of how the team was run from about 2004-2013, then why bother?  Results on the field were often held back due to Wilson's personal involvement.  When they were humming under Polian, wilson put a stick in the spokes, then again under Butler.  Late 60s through the 70s were also really bad.   

 

I truly believe Wilson had figured/planned on the Bills getting sold to Ted Rogers and moved to Toronto upon his passing.  The Toronto series was basically a dry run and showcase for the city of Toronto.  I don't think it was ill intent by Wilson, just the logical direction everything was pointing.  Rogers, though had passed away earlier than expected, his family kind of a mess, and the pricing structure and irrelevance of the Bills hurt the optics of the Toronto series.

 

We also got very fortunate the Bills were able to remain with the perfect-storm timing of the new lease, NRA, and Mr. Wilson's death.  That along with Pegula coming onto the scene as a guy with like $7 Billion, much liquid and loving sports and Buffalo made it virtually impossible for an outside interest to buy and move the team (and build a stadium elsewhere).  

 

 

Overall, I look at it like the Bills are a thing I love.  Wilson is the father of the Bills, and they are still here.  As much as I sounded off on Wilson during the whole Russ Brandon pretend-GM era, I view him in a positive light.

Agree with everything you said, the only difference is that I view him in more of negative light due to the product he put on the field.

[Ned Flanders]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:06 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Ralph didn't want Buffalo.  He wanted to start an AFL team in Miami but Hunt turned him down. 

 

My recollection is that Miami, and the Orange Bowl committee, turned Ralph down because they felt burned by the short-lived AAFC team that was oversold them a few years earlier.

[Augie]

39 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I always thought that Ralph has somewhat of a complicated legacy because when you look at Ralph the person he did some great things for WNY.  When you look at Ralph as the football owner he was not very good for most of his tenure.  
 

Where it gets complicated is that you can’t take one part and not the other.  So you can’t say he should be celebrated as owner for his charity and keeping the team in Buffalo without recognizing the immense damage he did to the franchise for nearly 2 decades toward the end of his tenure.

 

You also can’t say he was a terrible owner without recognizing that there might not be a football team in Buffalo otherwise.  
 

One thing is for certain though - the drought years which were the darkest and most frustrating time for most Bills fans of the modern generation were 110% Ralph’s fault.  His stubbornness, ignorance and overall incompetence did a lot of damage to the franchise.

 

Perhaps it’s his generosity to local colleges and charities, but I feel many often dance around the elephant in the room.

 

I don’t disagree, other than to say I don’t dance around the elephant as much as I forgive his many shortcomings because, above all else, he made sure the Bills stayed in WNY. I can put aside his meddling and more losses than wins. And I can appreciate but look past his enormous generosity. The Bills are still our team, and the other things are very real, but secondary to me. 

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t disagree, other than to say I don’t dance around the elephant as much as I forgive his many shortcomings because, above all else, he made sure the Bills stayed in WNY. I can put aside his meddling and more losses than wins. And I can appreciate but look past his enormous generosity. The Bills are still our team, and the other things are very real, but secondary to me. 

 

Yup and that kinda trumps everything else in the long run imo. because without that.....we have nothing as Bills fans.

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t disagree, other than to say I don’t dance around the elephant as much as I forgive his many shortcomings because, above all else, he made sure the Bills stayed in WNY. I can put aside his meddling and more losses than wins. And I can appreciate but look past his enormous generosity. The Bills are still our team, and the other things are very real, but secondary to me. 

 

Bills weren't going anywhere--that was the genius of Ralph.... to this day! He was never ever going to move the team, despite his threats.  Each time he hinted at it, the Clouting rolled over and gave he what he wanted.  

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bills weren't going anywhere--that was the genius of Ralph.... to this day! He was never ever going to move the team, despite his threats.  Each time he hinted at it, the Clouting rolled over and gave he what he wanted.  

I only know of once he talked of moving them in 1971 to Seattle. I could be wrong but I can't recall any other time he tried it.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bills weren't going anywhere--that was the genius of Ralph.... to this day! He was never ever going to move the team, despite his threats.  Each time he hinted at it, the Clouting rolled over and gave he what he wanted.  

 

You missed the point entirely. I don’t CARE if it was just a threat. The Bills COULD have gone but they STAYED. THAT is my bottom line. Period. 

[Doc]

He kept the team in Buffalo, a city that few players wanted to play/live in because of the weather and market size (the same reason they didn't want to play in GB, which had no owner).  That, the Cheaters' dominance during that time period, the NFL moving to a 4 division conference while still keeping 6 playoff teams, and the Bills not finding a franchise QB are the reasons for the drought.  But I'd rather have Terry because he'll also keep the team in Buffalo and he's got deeper pockets.

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

You missed the point entirely. I don’t CARE if it was just a threat. The Bills COULD have gone but they STAYED. THAT is my bottom line. Period. 

 

Yup.  He had numerous opportunities but was a staunch opponent of franchises moving.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

On 7/11/2021 at 4:00 PM, clearwater cadet said:

I agree with you, but I believe he was planning to sell the team to Ted Rodgers and move them to Toronto at the time of his death, the only thing that stopped that is Ted died before Ralph at a much younger age.  I don't miss Ralph either and this constant reminders of the competitive disadvantage that come with owning a team in WNY.

Except that he literally set things up to ensure the team would not be easily moved from Buffalo. So your 'belief' appears to be completely unfounded. 

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bills weren't going anywhere--that was the genius of Ralph.... to this day! He was never ever going to move the team, despite his threats.  Each time he hinted at it, the Clouting rolled over and gave he what he wanted.  

It's called negotiating. He was a businessman.