Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 As an observation, gangs/cartels and other organized violent crime entities have become so powerful in certain areas of the world that government is either powerless or complicit in activities. Mexico has areas that cartels control. Haiti appears to have an assassination of their President, Columbia etc. In US and Canada we spend more and more on preventing over dose deaths which is a sign of resignation of control, the money laundering techniques now build condo towers, bridges, sub divisions, start businesses etc with ammunity. Are we destined to become more violent societies as control shifts to the money of cartels. We are defunding police, unable to prosecute enough suppliers, unable to stop supply, worshipping celebs that use hard drugs, pander to everyone that tries sobriety and fail, not caring that what they do is illegal. Are our governments become more controlled and influenced by this endless money influence.? Is it too late? What do you think? 1
Unforgiven Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) well the dnc cartel has done it in the US in 6 months. in San Pelosi....It's fair to say democrat run cities are overrun by crime and filth. whoa and for repressed folks these crooks sure have nice rides. Edited July 7, 2021 by Unforgiven 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said: As an observation, gangs/cartels and other organized violent crime entities have become so powerful in certain areas of the world that government is either powerless or complicit in activities. Mexico has areas that cartels control. Haiti appears to have an assassination of their President, Columbia etc. In US and Canada we spend more and more on preventing over dose deaths which is a sign of resignation of control, the money laundering techniques now build condo towers, bridges, sub divisions, start businesses etc with ammunity. Are we destined to become more violent societies as control shifts to the money of cartels. We are defunding police, unable to prosecute enough suppliers, unable to stop supply, worshipping celebs that use hard drugs, pander to everyone that tries sobriety and fail, not caring that what they do is illegal. Are our governments become more controlled and influenced by this endless money influence.? Is it too late? What do you think? Unlike some others, I will take your question seriously. Here's a deeply disturbing incident that just happened: Dutch journalist investigating organized crime/international drug trafficking shot in an apparent assassination attempt: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/07/europe/dutch-reporter-de-vries-fight-shooting-intl-hnk/index.html I don't know the full backdrop of the Haiti assassination (a country rife with corruption, but not necessarily of the drug cartel sort). The power of international criminal syndicates is not something we can ignore anymore as some kind of distant third-worldy problem. And it's not just drugs: it's cybercrime/ransomware, etc. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that ignoring it isn't working. 2
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: As an observation, gangs/cartels and other organized violent crime entities have become so powerful in certain areas of the world that government is either powerless or complicit in activities. Mexico has areas that cartels control. Haiti appears to have an assassination of their President, Columbia etc. In US and Canada we spend more and more on preventing over dose deaths which is a sign of resignation of control, the money laundering techniques now build condo towers, bridges, sub divisions, start businesses etc with ammunity. Are we destined to become more violent societies as control shifts to the money of cartels. We are defunding police, unable to prosecute enough suppliers, unable to stop supply, worshipping celebs that use hard drugs, pander to everyone that tries sobriety and fail, not caring that what they do is illegal. Are our governments become more controlled and influenced by this endless money influence.? Is it too late? What do you think? I am concerned about it but your side seems to be the one making it easier for them to work their evil. I believe that is not the Dems intention but almost all of their priorities help bad people over good. 1
Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Author Posted July 7, 2021 40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I am concerned about it but your side seems to be the one making it easier for them to work their evil. I believe that is not the Dems intention but almost all of their priorities help bad people over good. My side???? I am far from left. I am the real conservative...fiscal conservative...not a blind religious zealot who does not think for themselves and believes ARs are part of polite society. Some folks are so far out you cannot see the center. It does appear the more we spend time helping overdoses, or providing needles, or safe houses to inject, the more we accept drugs that kill are part of life and the sellers are ok. Thus the money takes over our cities, country and politics.
Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Author Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Unforgiven said: well the dnc cartel has done it in the US in 6 months. in San Pelosi....It's fair to say democrat run cities are overrun by crime and filth. whoa and for repressed folks these crooks sure have nice rides. I wonder why everything has to be reduced to politics. The question or thought was not political.
716er Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 Don’t see it happening in the US. With how leaky the border is and has been since Bush Jr., I think a version of what you predict would have already occurred in Texas, Cali, or New Mexico, since drug cartels have owned Mexico for years. 1
Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Author Posted July 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, Doc said: Make drugs legal. Problem solved. Now you sound like Nancy P. Fentynal for all. What a great election campaign.
Unforgiven Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I am concerned about it but your side seems to be the one making it easier for them to work their evil. I believe that is not the Dems intention but almost all of their priorities help bad people over good. The evidence backing this up is startling, and yet, that side still chants that everyone else is racist and evil. It's utterly mind boggling our country is putting up with any of this. 1
Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Author Posted July 7, 2021 48 minutes ago, Unforgiven said: The evidence backing this up is startling, and yet, that side still chants that everyone else is racist and evil. It's utterly mind boggling our country is putting up with any of this. Your country putting up with this!.? You forget one important fact. It is also their country. Maybe they can't believe what you stand for? Polarization makes it either this or....that, very unsolvable with out a conflict like Jan 6 succeeding. Not sure anyone wants a guy with buffalo horns running the USA. BUT BACK TO THE SUBJECT. Are the drug cartels running politics now? Or will they?
Doc Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said: Now you sound like Nancy P. Fentynal for all. What a great election campaign. It's spelled fentanyl. And you're never going to get rid of the cartels...unless you legalize drugs. Not a hard concept.
LeviF Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) The US is already run by a cabal of gerontocrats with no interest in the long term future of this country or its heritage people. It’s over. Has been for a generation or two. More to your point, the cartels have bought influence at local levels before. But the amount of money needed to take the US government into pocket at this point is too much for a cartel or gang to come up with. They’re competing with big pharma, big ag, and big tech, after all. Edited July 7, 2021 by LeviF 1
Niagara Bill Posted July 7, 2021 Author Posted July 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, Doc said: It's spelled fentanyl. And you're never going to get rid of the cartels...unless you legalize drugs. Not a hard concept. So your answer is the same as Nancy. Legalize, treatment and play nice. I guess you are resigned to having cartel run government. And you want election reform....wow! Soon you won't need any voting hrs. Maybe the cartel already controlled the WH. Some say OC already eliminated 1 president in the 60s.
Chef Jim Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Make drugs legal. Problem solved. This is such a flawed argument. You make drugs legal you think the cartels are just going away or start selling Mary Kay? You can't just cut off their current business model. They will move on to some other nefarious way to make shitloads of money. 1
LeGOATski Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, LeviF said: They’re competing with big pharma, big ag, and big tech, after all. This. We're well on our way to becoming a corporate republic. I believe we'll be the first in history.
The Frankish Reich Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 Are cartels running the U.S. government? Of course not. Are they running the Dutch government? No, not that one either. But when we see journalists getting assassinated in the Netherlands, it's clear that we're getting to a point where they're more brazen, less concerned about getting caught if they intimidate their opponents. In other words, it's a problem, and one that can't be ignored. I tend to be of the Gary Becker (Nobel winning economist) school here: criminals and criminal organizations are rational, and they respond to incentives. The key disincentive here is swift, severe punishment. A confession: I used to be much more of the legalize it and control it mindset. The opioid crisis kind of changed my mind on that.
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 7, 2021 Posted July 7, 2021 Maybe shining some light on the large international banks that hold and move lots of cash for the cartels would be productive. There are also suggestions government agencies like our own CIA being involved in the narco trade, specifically for the CIA in Afghanistan. Something to watch will be how Taliban control of Afghanistan impacts the countries heroin output which has risen to historical highs under US "control". Anyway you want to spin it my suspicion is this is a protected racket in every meaning of the word. Politicians, judges, prosecutors, bankers, cops, all kinds of people on the take. Perhaps a study of how countries like Singapore deal with the drug problem would provide some insights? Or how the Romans dealt with administrative corruption?
Doc Posted July 8, 2021 Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Chef Jim said: This is such a flawed argument. You make drugs legal you think the cartels are just going away or start selling Mary Kay? You can't just cut off their current business model. They will move on to some other nefarious way to make shitloads of money. Like what? What other way is there to make shitloads of money like with drugs? There are no easy answers. But the war on drugs has been, and continues to be, a failure. Edited July 8, 2021 by Doc
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