Boxcar Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 7 hours ago, todd said: Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/ Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 1
Billy Claude Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's click-bait because 1) the Bills were in the AFC championship game and pretty clearly needed better QB pressure to go further. So 2nd-guessing their efforts in that regard is news 2) Brandon Beane just won several awards as the Bills GM, including Sporting News Executive of the Year and PFWA Executive of the Year. So 2nd-guessing his top-two draft picks is "edgy" The question is: how does a GM with limited cap $$ and drafting at #30 improve at a premium position? He likely got out-bid for any FA in whom he had interest. The obvious answer seems to me: 1) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceiling low-floor FA like Efe Obada 2) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceilng low-floor draft prospects like Rousseau and Basham. Sorry I just don't see it. I define click-bait as saying something outrageous that the author does not believe in, solely to generate traffic to their website, for example, anything that Skip Bayless says. I don't see how this particular instance meets this criteria. (1) Almost by definition a high ceiling, low floor, developmental prospect is going to have a higher bust probability. It doesn't mean its a bad pick, just a riskier one. In any case, it is not then surprising that this pick will be on some people's list of likely busts. So if someone was soley trying to generate clicks, I don't think they would have picked Rousseau. (2) I don't think that Beane has reached such an exalted position that any criticism of him will automatically draw attention -- maybe five years from now but now now. I find it difficult to believe that Simms put Rousseau on his list simply because he was picked by Brandon Beane. I am not saying Simms put a great deal of thought into his list, nor whether I feel that Rousseau is or is not a good pick, simply that I don't think it meets my definition of click-bait. Edited July 5, 2021 by Billy Claude 1 3
Doc Brown Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, whorlnut said: That’s funny. When Simms talks glowingly about our qb, everyone loves him. But when he criticizes Rousseau and Basham, everyone feels negatively about him. Can’t really have it both ways. Him being an ex quarterback and being proven correct on some evaluations of QB draft classes over the last few years makes his takes on QB's more relevant than most imo. Although I think he falls victim to falling in love with dual threat quarterbacks but that's just his preference. I wouldn't discount both these picks being busts. A majority of Bills fans and experts praised Whaley for drafting Lawson and Ragland who both were disappointments. Beane's draft history on the defensive line hasn't really produced much with Oliver or Epenesa yet. However, it's far more likely at least one of them (Rosseau or Basham) becomes an above average starter. Chris Simms hasn't changed my opinion of them though. Edited July 5, 2021 by Doc Brown
Capco Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 7 hours ago, todd said: Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/ Here are the relevant snippets for those who don't/can't click the link: Gregory Rousseau, DE, Rd 1, Pick 30, Bills. “To me, he’s totally a measurables guy. I don’t know how you can look at the film and see a top-30 pick. You’d see times where he’d wind up with a sack because someone ran right into him. There wasn’t a sense that his opponents were worried about him.” Carlos Basham, DL, Rd 2, Pick 29, Bills. “I’m going to have some people mad at me, huh? I’m not picking on Buffalo. Actually, I’m not picking on anyone; I want them all to be successful. But I have to say that Basham might be the ultimate boom or bust project in the whole draft. He’s strong. He’s quick. Then you turn on the film and say, ‘What’s going on? You’re too big and strong to be blocked by some of the guys who are blocking you.’ The film doesn’t say that he’s a great player. But Buffalo has good coaches. Maybe they’ll figure out a way to use him that I can’t see.” 2
DCofNC Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 Well, pretty much everyone drafted is a potential bust, especially guys you take for a premier position at the bottom of the draft. I can’t say either guys is who I would have picked at those spots, but I’m hopeful they got it right. 1
Don Otreply Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) We can not expect every talking head to have the same take on our draft picks as our FO does, what’s his take on the SB teams that drafted after us and took pass rushers? That would be a good question to ask Simms…, being that all top draft picks are a bust potential, this is hardly news, its kinda captain obvious stuff when it comes right down to it…, Edited July 6, 2021 by Don Otreply
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's click-bait because 1) the Bills were in the AFC championship game and pretty clearly needed better QB pressure to go further. So 2nd-guessing their efforts in that regard is news 2) Brandon Beane just won several awards as the Bills GM, including Sporting News Executive of the Year and PFWA Executive of the Year. So 2nd-guessing his top-two draft picks is "edgy" The question is: how does a GM with limited cap $$ and drafting at #30 improve at a premium position? He likely got out-bid for any FA in whom he had interest. The obvious answer seems to me: 1) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceiling low-floor FA like Efe Obada 2) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceilng low-floor draft prospects like Rousseau and Basham. Agreed. Simms turning into a legendary master baiter.
JaBu Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: There are not many of his takes on that list I agree with to be honest. I'm with him on Dyami Brown and Tyson Campbell. I was higher than the consensus on both of those guys. I am also with him on Asante Samuel being a but but not really for the same reasons. I think Samuel gets lost in zone and actually with his speed I feel better about saying to him "hey just go run with a guy". Other than that... not much we agree on. I'm not that high on Basham but I kinda feel the opposite to Simms' "boom or bust" assessment. I think Basham has a reasonable floor but a reasonably mediocre ceiling. So even where we might have similar views on players I get there quite differently to him. I consider Basham’s potential as better than mediocre - more as a Phil Hansen caliber player. That is, not elite but dependably steady. What are you factoring on for the mediocre ceiling call?
Utah John Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Lots of hype around Epenesa this spring from the coaches about how he transformed his physique and play on the field. Hopefully that translates to games this fall. Yep, I've seen that too, and I hope it turns out to be true. I think he got sideways last year by losing too much weight before the season started. This year he has regular coaching and guidance. 1
RobbRiddick Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 I feel betrayed. I'm cancelling my Chris Simms jersey 1
Doc Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: He absolutely was very strongly a Josh believer far before last season. Even back to his rookie year. While he may have been, I personally didn't read a lot of Simms' stuff until this past season. And it's still all his opinion. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Billy Claude said: Sorry I just don't see it. I define click-bait as saying something outrageous that the author does not believe in, solely to generate traffic to their website, for example, anything that Skip Bayless says. I don't see how this particular instance meets this criteria. (1) Almost by definition a high ceiling, low floor, developmental prospect is going to have a higher bust probability. It doesn't mean its a bad pick, just a riskier one. In any case, it is not then surprising that this pick will be on some people's list of likely busts. So if someone was soley trying to generate clicks, I don't think they would have picked Rousseau. (2) I don't think that Beane has reached such an exalted position that any criticism of him will automatically draw attention -- maybe five years from now but now now. I find it difficult to believe that Simms put Rousseau on his list simply because he was picked by Brandon Beane. I am not saying Simms put a great deal of thought into his list, nor whether I feel that Rousseau is or is not a good pick, simply that I don't think it meets my definition of click-bait. So you have a personal definition of click-bait that this doesn't fit. Cool. What you said that I was responding to was: "Also putting the next to last first rounder on his most likely to bust list is hardly a good way to get clicks. Much more effective click-bait if Simms picked someone who was drafted in the top ten. " Nothing in there about "click bait" being "something outrageous that the author does not believe in" Looked a lot like the more standard definition, "something to generate traffic to their website", and that you were arguing that predicting a top-10 pick to bust was a more effective strategy. I disagree and explained why.
Rigotz Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 11 hours ago, todd said: Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/ “this could impact the Bills for years” is a little dramatic, don’t you think? Teams miss on late 1st round and 2nd round picks all the time. It’s 50-50. What matters is a QB… and we have one. 1 1
JaCrispy Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 At worst, I could see Rousseau busting...Basham I could see bottoming out as an adequate rotational player...
Patrick Duffy Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: At worst, I could see Rousseau busting...Basham I could see bottoming out as an adequate rotational player... Ok, what's at best you could see for them?
Boxcar Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Capco said: Here are the relevant snippets for those who don't/can't click the link: Gregory Rousseau, DE, Rd 1, Pick 30, Bills. “To me, he’s totally a measurables guy. I don’t know how you can look at the film and see a top-30 pick. You’d see times where he’d wind up with a sack because someone ran right into him. There wasn’t a sense that his opponents were worried about him.” I honestly don't care at all what Chris Simms thinks and all the things like that, but this is such a lazy, incorrect take. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbiCgsVVX-0 I can't believe Simms just boils it down to sacks, and even then "sure, he got sacks but they weren't real sacks and everything like that" I don't care about his comments or whether he thinks Rousseau will be the best or worst edge in the league, but I can't stand stupid, lazy takes from guys who get paid to give them, especially when he's usually more nuanced. Edited July 5, 2021 by Boxcar 1
JaCrispy Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 39 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Ok, what's at best you could see for them? At best, I could see them being solid starters...
GunnerBill Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, jabu said: I consider Basham’s potential as better than mediocre - more as a Phil Hansen caliber player. That is, not elite but dependably steady. What are you factoring on for the mediocre ceiling call? He struggled against some bang average college tackles, lacks technique as a rusher and almost all his college success came just bull rushing and overpowering guys who won't play on Sundays. That generally is the type of rusher that struggles to translate. He isn't going to overpower NFL tackles, he doesn't have the bend to beat them around the edge and he doesn't have the refinement to win any other way. I think he can be a solid base end that plays 8-10 years in the league and is good against the run but as a pass rush prospect? I think his ceiling is mediocre.
Patrick Duffy Posted July 5, 2021 Posted July 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: At best, I could see them being solid starters... I can agree with that. And hopefully at least one will be a little more than a solid starter. I could live with that if turns out that way in long run. Of course would be great if they can surprise and be a lot more than solid play makers.
Rocket94 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 15 hours ago, todd said: Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/ This is the same guy that was drooling over Vaseon Joseph!
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