I keep hearing on this board that Tremaine Edmunds only makes tackles 5+ yards past the L.O.S..🤔

[Patrick Duffy]

51 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Doesn’t hurt that the last 5 QBs we faced in the regular season were-  Mullens, Big Ben, Lock, Cam and Tua.   

True, but regarding Tua, if one didn't know any better and going off the media talk, he was a top dog QB making all sorts of plays lol. Like other poster said though, it all counts just the same as it does for any other teams that played those same QB's

Edited July 8, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Nineforty]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31765336/ranking-nfl-top-10-linebackers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

33 minutes ago, MJS said:

It all counts.

 

Says the guy that wanted to discount the first ~12 games of the regular season ? 

 

The season stats indicate the Bills defense was pretty mediocre, and I think that's exactly what they were. Cherry picking a smaller sample size at the end of the regular season against inferior offensive teams doesn't change that. I'm not buying that the DEF was better by the end of the year when they were awful vs the Colts and Chiefs in the playoffs. 

[Royale with Cheese]

53 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So McD and Beane are always right when it comes to player evaluation? 

 

On whether or not a player is a MLB or an edge guy?  Yes, they're right.  He's not an edge guy.  

No they get things wrong and when they do, you're leading the parade.  13-3...won't say much.  But when it's something not good, boy, you're going to make sure everyone here knows it.  

 

So am I going to have more trust in McBeane who got us to 13-3 or Scottlaw who pumps up the Jets every year?  Hmmmm......

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills defense struggled against teams who could both run and pass the ball well…. They performed well against one dimensional teams(see the Ravens). 
 

Top 5 unit towards the end of the season? No way.

 

So defenses going against offenses that run and pass well....they didn't shut them down?  No way!

Did you see what the Chiefs and Browns did to the Ravens defense?  Did you see what the Bills and Packers did to the Rams defense?

 

[Patrick Duffy]

50 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

The season stats indicate the Bills defense was pretty mediocre, and I think that's exactly what they were. Cherry picking a smaller sample size at the end of the regular season against inferior offensive teams doesn't change that. I'm not buying that the DEF was better by the end of the year when they were awful vs the Colts and Chiefs in the playoffs

 

The defense for every team struggled last season, especially early on. I guess it's chalked down to the circumstances as for likely being the reason for most part. But it did seem like a fair amount of teams did start to get a little better as it got to middle through towards the end.

 

Bills D did improve some like a few others as it went on. I thought it was fairly noticeable myself. Especially when they started to blitz a lot more. They basically had to really since the DL was struggling and was only way to get pressure.

 

As for the Colts and Chiefs playoff games, I agree they were bad. Gave Rivers and Colts every chance in the world to win it. Was frustrating. Hope to see a different D this time.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[MJS]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Says the guy that wanted to discount the first ~12 games of the regular season ? 

 

The season stats indicate the Bills defense was pretty mediocre, and I think that's exactly what they were. Cherry picking a smaller sample size at the end of the regular season against inferior offensive teams doesn't change that. I'm not buying that the DEF was better by the end of the year when they were awful vs the Colts and Chiefs in the playoffs. 

I didn't discount the first 12 games. I said they struggled early on and got better as the season progressed. That's exactly what they did.

 

The individual I responded to was discounting the previous years of defensive success and saying that the investments the team made int he defense did not produce. But they have produced. McDermott has had a too defense his entire time in Buffalo except for the first few games of the 2020 season.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

You’re missing my obvious point.  The Bills defense was very much middle of the pack last season.  But the Bills have used more resources on it than any other team this year and last.  That’s pretty poor value.  It should be near the top of the league, but it certainly isn’t.  It’s middle of the pack in defensive scoring, yardage, rushing and passing. 

 

This year’s performance obviously has yet to be seen, but it bears watching - and the proper lens through which to watch it is value for resources spent.  OTOH the offense has really outperformed its resource use.  They deserve credit for that. 

 

I think his point which is - take out the first 8 games of 2020 and this D has been top 5 for 2 and a half of the last 3 years is a fair one. On your side of the argument I would say many of the key components in that - White, Hyde, Poyer, Hughes - are the guys here since that beginning with McDermott. For the resource they have poured in since then - both draft capital and free agency $$s they have not it is fair to say extracted sufficient value.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think his point which is - take out the first 8 games of 2020 and this D has been top 5 for 2 and a half of the last 3 years is a fair one. On your side of the argument I would say many of the key components in that - White, Hyde, Poyer, Hughes - are the guys here since that beginning with McDermott. For the resource they have poured in since then - both draft capital and free agency $$s they have not it is fair to say extracted sufficient value.

 

I’ll go glass half full (as I usually do) and hope we have the next wave of solid starters (and maybe a star or two) getting some time under their belts and they will be ready to step up when it’s their turn.  A guy can hope! 

 

It’s hard to step in and take a job from a solid starter, and there is value in having time to learn the system and get physically ready to play with the Big Boys. Good teams can do that. I know the FA spending has been spotty, but nobody is perfect. 

[Chandler#81]

Fairly certain Edmunds was a Pro Bowler last season -not that it matters around here. Also, the Bills have committed to his 5th year option, meaning depending on Allen’s new contract, he’ll be very highly paid to stay starting here soon enough for many years. Haters, get used to him manning the middle of our Defense for the foreseeable future. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Lies?

how about links?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviLa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDe01.htm

I think the mods @Hapless Bills Fan might need to step in at this point

 

 

Yes.......bald faced lies.

 

Why are you linking Lavonte David when it clearly says "RILB".......right inside linebacker?

 

Are you reading the stat table upside down?    

 

I get it if people don't understand the nuances of certain positions.........but the way defense is played now you can be a RLB or LLB without being an outside player exclusively.    You totally ignored this point........and combined with some obvious laziness.......that's how you got here crying for a moderator to throw you a life preserver.

 

Darius Leonard is a prime example of what I'm talking about.   By his own description he is a left inside LB.........he's not viewed as a Milano comp he is a better version of the type of LB that Edmunds is........but he will show up simply as a right or left LB on the ledger.......just like Deion Jones, who for most of his career has ACTUALLY been listed as an inside or MLB.  

 

There are more 2 LB sets than not on the field now.......so in some systems they will switch the mike often.    The Bills don't really switch much........and one of the complaints about their defense is that it has become very predictable.     They did change responsibilities some when Klein filled in for Milano.....and when they did Klein started jamming the stat sheet with big plays.......hmmmmm. 🤔

 

You know there have been a lot of people on this board in the past who were very knowledgeable about the X's and O's of football..........but dealing with nonsense like I've seen in this thread is why they leave or stop sharing.     There are baselines that have to be accepted to advance a football conversation and you really can't get far when you got people like yourself arguing vehemently when they really don't even know what they are talking about.   

 

It's to be expected, it's a cheerleader site not a football site.    That's why the mod who played LB in college doesn't chime in on X's and O's.   He knows.  I'm stubborn and keep trying. 

 

[The_Ripster]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes.......bald faced lies.

 

Why are you linking Lavonte David when it clearly says "RILB".......right inside linebacker?

 

Are you reading the stat table upside down?    

 

I get it if people don't understand the nuances of certain positions.........but the way defense is played now you can be a RLB or LLB without being an outside player exclusively.    You totally ignored this point........and combined with some obvious laziness.......that's how you got here crying for a moderator to throw you a life preserver.

 

Darius Leonard is a prime example of what I'm talking about.   By his own description he is a left inside LB.........he's not viewed as a Milano comp he is a better version of the type of LB that Edmunds is........but he will show up simply as a right or left LB on the ledger.......just like Deion Jones, who for most of his career has ACTUALLY been listed as an inside or MLB.  

 

There are more 2 LB sets than not on the field now.......so in some systems they will switch the mike often.    The Bills don't really switch much........and one of the complaints about their defense is that it has become very predictable.     They did change responsibilities some when Klein filled in for Milano.....and when they did Klein started jamming the stat sheet with big plays.......hmmmmm. 🤔

 

You know there have been a lot of people on this board in the past who were very knowledgeable about the X's and O's of football..........but dealing with nonsense like I've seen in this thread is why they leave or stop sharing.     There are baselines that have to be accepted to advance a football conversation and you really can't get far when you got people like yourself arguing vehemently when they really don't even know what they are talking about.   

 

It's to be expected, it's a cheerleader site not a football site.    That's why the mod who played LB in college doesn't chime in on X's and O's.   He knows.  I'm stubborn and keep trying. 

 

Second half of this post has me looking forward to seeing what Tyrell Adams can bring to the table. More versatility that's for certain.

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

I'm disappointed with Edmunds. 16th pick folks. Other than one goal line tackle name a game changing play. Any in three years?

 

Tackles for a loss? He had 4 last year. 4.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EdmuTr01.htm

 

0 forced fumbles, 0 fumbles recovered, 0 interceptions (supposed to be great in pass coverage), 2 sacks.

 

The QB Rating against him was 114.3. Josh Allen's QB rating was 107.2, and he got MVP consideration.

Any bum QB in the league can go mid-field against Edmunds and look like an All-Pro.

 

Missed tackles? Plenty. 9.2% is his best year. 1/3 of his tackles are assists.

What a stud

 

my favorite Edmunds 'Highlight' Look at @2:28 below

 

He needs to do better

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin

[Billy Claude]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think his point which is - take out the first 8 games of 2020 and this D has been top 5 for 2 and a half of the last 3 years is a fair one. On your side of the argument I would say many of the key components in that - White, Hyde, Poyer, Hughes - are the guys here since that beginning with McDermott. For the resource they have poured in since then - both draft capital and free agency $$s they have not it is fair to say extracted sufficient value.

 

Absolutely agree that there is merits to both sides of this argument.

 

I would add that the difference between the 2019 and 2020 defenses was not as stark as it may have seem. They were not as good as their ranking (3rd in yards given up) suggested in 2019 and better than their ranking suggested in 2020 (19th).

 

In 2019, the Bills plays 8(!) games against the bottom 7 rank offenses in the league by yards: Jets (32x2), Washington (31), Pittsburgh (30), Denver (28), Miami (27x2) and Cincinnati (26).  They only played two games against the top 11 offenses, though the defense played very well in both games:  Dallas (1) and Baltimore (2).  Furthermore, the Titans were 12th in total yards but the Bill's game was Mariota's last start.  It would have been difficult to draw up an easier schedule for the defense.

 

On the other hand, the Bills played 6 out of the top 11 offense during the first 11 weeks of 2020: KC (1), Tenn (3), Arizona (6), Raiders (8), Chargers (9) and Rams (11) and only four games against the bottom 8 (NYJ (32x2) and NE (27x2)).   The opposition were also in comeback mode most of the second half for many of those games further piling up yards.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They have done a great job considering where the franchise was and where it is now under their leadership.... Can’t argue results and them hitting on Josh Allen has put the franchise over the top...... but they aren’t perfect and they’ve made their fair share of mistakes. I think many fans watch Edmunds and see inconsistency and expect more....  you seem to love shouting everyone and anyone down who critique McBeane. It’s just conversation and it’s what makes the message board great, IMO. 

 

Scott, I mostly shout at you because you even when the Bills win, you just smother this board with negativity.  

"13-3?  So what...they still have Edmunds as the middle linebacker."

[Buffalo716]

On 7/7/2021 at 8:11 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Unfortunately thowing over him in zone isn't the only way to attack him in the passing game.............in 2020 with a couple of seasons of tape on him.......QB's instead manipulated him out of the areas they wanted to attack and because he doesn't make plays on the football they started making more tight window throws right in his jurisdiction as well.

 

His 2020 was reminiscent of when QB's realized that the Bills brilliant CB Thomas Smith couldn't catch a football to save his life.   He went from a dominant CB who saw perhaps the least number of passes thrown at him in the entire AFC in one season.......to a guy that teams attacked with surprisingly good results the next.    That affected his confidence and compounded the issue. 

 

 If the worst result is the ball falling to the turf incomplete.......that will not deter teams from attacking you once they figure that out.

 

My guess is that Edmunds can catch the ball just fine........his father and brother were skill players.   He doesn't have the instincts of a skill player though.......he's not the mirror image of the opposing RB in run defense........he doesn't sense where the RB sense's the action will go so he's always left reacting instead of correctly anticipating.     And when the ball is in the air his clock shuts off the millisecond that he thinks the play is over........where a guy like Jordan Poyer is always ready to grab a stray deflection etc..    It's maddening watching a player with Edmunds physical skill leave SO MUCH on the table.

He Definitely was able to get moved out of his spot last year , 

 

But he did improve as the season went on , Especially as he recovered from the injury 

 

Will he ever be a downhill run stuffer like ray Lewis? No, but the NFL is evolving to fit his mold more and more 

 

And he cover alot of ground in zone where he can run downhill .. and he has the speed to make up for mistakes

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Last season was a ***** ton of fun... especially later in the year when they were blowing the doors off opponents, but their weaknesses were exposed in a couple of the playoff games(Edmunds certainly was one), IMO. Just an honest observation. 

 

The goal is the SB and I was slightly critical of their offseason approach(although I understand it)..... I didn’t think they were aggressive enough in the offseason to better themselves against the Chiefs in addressing the pass rush and I was hoping for another big time playmaker with speed on the offense..... perhaps their early round additions in Basham and Rousseau develop quickly and they have enough offensively to repeat what they did last season.  
 

 

When a team succeeds it rarely means everything is going right and when a team fails it rarely means everything is going wrong. I used the preach the latter on here in the drought years and I preach the former now. I was criticised for praising certain decisions the Bills made in the drought by fans who said "well they are still losing so it made no difference" and I get criticised today for criticising certain decisions by fans who say "they made the AFC Championship game!"

 

Being a successful sports team is much more nuanced and much less binary. The Bills had an excellent season last season - it does not mean the decision to sign Mario Addison to that contract was the correct one, or relying completely on Harrison Phillips off a gruesome injury and with little proven tape behind him to be their main 1 tech was a good call. The same as when the Bills were failing it didn't mean that letting Jairus Byrd walk or drafting Stephon Gilmore were mistakes. 

[eball]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When a team succeeds it rarely means everything is going right and when a team fails it rarely means everything is going wrong. I used the preach the latter on here in the drought years and I preach the former now. I was criticised for praising certain decisions the Bills made in the drought by fans who said "well they are still losing so it made no difference" and I get criticised today for criticising certain decisions by fans who say "they made the AFC Championship game!"

 

Being a successful sports team is much more nuanced and much less binary. The Bills had an excellent season last season - it does not mean the decision to sign Mario Addison to that contract was the correct one, or relying completely on Harrison Phillips off a gruesome injury and with little proven tape behind him to be their main 1 tech was a good call. The same as when the Bills were failing it didn't mean that letting Jairus Byrd walk or drafting Stephon Gilmore were mistakes. 

 

This is very well said.  I give you, in particular, much more leeway in your opinions because (a) you have proven over the years just how much you study the game, (b) you admit your misjudgments, and (c) you have no ulterior motives.  What I don’t like to see on this message board are the posters who act like they know everything when it’s clear they do not.  There are certain posters who shall remain nameless who have to this day never admitted they were wrong about a player/team/coach.

 

[YattaOkasan]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes.......bald faced lies.

 

Why are you linking Lavonte David when it clearly says "RILB".......right inside linebacker?

 

Are you reading the stat table upside down?    

 

I get it if people don't understand the nuances of certain positions.........but the way defense is played now you can be a RLB or LLB without being an outside player exclusively.    You totally ignored this point........and combined with some obvious laziness.......that's how you got here crying for a moderator to throw you a life preserver.

 

Darius Leonard is a prime example of what I'm talking about.   By his own description he is a left inside LB.........he's not viewed as a Milano comp he is a better version of the type of LB that Edmunds is........but he will show up simply as a right or left LB on the ledger.......just like Deion Jones, who for most of his career has ACTUALLY been listed as an inside or MLB.  

 

There are more 2 LB sets than not on the field now.......so in some systems they will switch the mike often.    The Bills don't really switch much........and one of the complaints about their defense is that it has become very predictable.     They did change responsibilities some when Klein filled in for Milano.....and when they did Klein started jamming the stat sheet with big plays.......hmmmmm. 🤔

 

You know there have been a lot of people on this board in the past who were very knowledgeable about the X's and O's of football..........but dealing with nonsense like I've seen in this thread is why they leave or stop sharing.     There are baselines that have to be accepted to advance a football conversation and you really can't get far when you got people like yourself arguing vehemently when they really don't even know what they are talking about.   

 

It's to be expected, it's a cheerleader site not a football site.    That's why the mod who played LB in college doesn't chime in on X's and O's.   He knows.  I'm stubborn and keep trying. 

 

Position is listed next to player picture.  It says OLB.  I see where you get RILB (scrolling to year by year).  I went with the headline number.  Not a lie and it doesnt seem that you tried to understand my position (definition of debating in bad faith).  last ill engage with someone who is just trying to provoke with inflammatory language.

Edited July 9, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Last season was a ***** ton of fun... especially later in the year when they were blowing the doors off opponents, but their weaknesses were exposed in a couple of the playoff games(Edmunds certainly was one), IMO. Just an honest observation. 

 

The goal is the SB and I was slightly critical of their offseason approach(although I understand it)..... I didn’t think they were aggressive enough in the offseason to better themselves against the Chiefs in addressing the pass rush and I was hoping for another big time playmaker with speed on the offense..... perhaps their early round additions in Basham and Rousseau develop quickly and they have enough offensively to repeat what they did last season.  
 

 

Then you should act like it was a ton of fun.  It doesn't because you look for something to be critical about and then let everyone on here know as much as you can.

Yes, my main concern was the pass rush.  I was hoping they did get a bigger name but they didn't.  I didn't get all bent out of shape and say they don't know what they're doing....that's your approach.

 

Beane's first impression with you was trading Watkins and it seems you still have animosity towards him for that....that's an honest observation.

53 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Position is listed next to player picture.  It says OLB.  I see where you get RILB (scrolling to position).  I went with the headline number.  Not a lie.  last ill engage with someone who is just trying to provoke with inflammatory language.

 

It's why I stopped engaging conversations with him.  If you disagree with him, he takes it personal and will take shots at you.  You can't have a mature conversation with him.  He believes talking tough to people on the internet makes him tough lol.