GunnerBill Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, JerseyBills said: Enough Said. 👇 I don't have the numbers for tackles for no gain readily accessible to me. In tackles for loss Devin White has as many in two seasons as Edmunds has in 3 and Edmunds lowest output was 4 in 2020 after a very impressive 10 in 2019. Roquan Smith his fellow 1st round linebacker from the same draft class had one fewer in 2020 than Edmunds has for a career. I am not an Edmunds hater, but he does still need to make more impact in the run game and generally his play in 2020 was not as good as 2019 when I genuinely felt he was on the cusp of that elite group of linebackers. I'm pretty confident he will bounce back in 2021 but with Edmunds the debate is so polarised and it is a classic case of the truth genuinely being somewhere in the middle. Edited June 30, 2021 by GunnerBill 3 4 1
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 17 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said: I get his point but would like to see where he stood for the 2020 season. I bet not top 2. Don’t get me wrong, I’m an Edmunds fan but hoping for a rebound. 17 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: Of course, the dude had a busted shoulder. Trying to shed blocks and tackle with that is less than ideal. And not having Star in front of him and Oliver played the first part of the season with a somewhat banged up leg.
machine gun kelly Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't have the numbers for tackles for no gain readily accessible to me. In tackles for loss Devin White has as many in two seasons as Edmunds has in 3 and Edmunds lowest output was 4 in 2020 after a very impressive 10 in 2019. Roquan Smith his fellow 1st round linebacker from the same draft class had one fewer in 2020 than Edmunds has for a career. I am not an Edmunds hater, but he does still need to make more impact in the run game and generally his play in 2020 was not as good as 2019 when I genuinely felt he was on the cusp of that elite group of linebackers. I'm pretty confident he will bounce back in 2021 but with Edmunds the debate is so polarised and it is a classic case of the truth genuinely being somewhere in the middle. GB as always provides a very pragmatic POV. He’s not the best and he’s not the worst or even average. He’s an above average LB that should do well this year.
DJB Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 I'm so glad we have an T Edmunds thread going. Its been a while since the last one.
eball Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I don't have the numbers for tackles for no gain readily accessible to me. In tackles for loss Devin White has as many in two seasons as Edmunds has in 3 and Edmunds lowest output was 4 in 2020 after a very impressive 10 in 2019. Roquan Smith his fellow 1st round linebacker from the same draft class had one fewer in 2020 than Edmunds has for a career. I am not an Edmunds hater, but he does still need to make more impact in the run game and generally his play in 2020 was not as good as 2019 when I genuinely felt he was on the cusp of that elite group of linebackers. I'm pretty confident he will bounce back in 2021 but with Edmunds the debate is so polarised and it is a classic case of the truth genuinely being somewhere in the middle. Leave it to @GunnerBill to bring rational arguments to the conversation. The jury is still out on Tremaine Edmunds but the potential is there, and anyone who claims to know he "has no instincts" and doesn't make impactful plays is just blowing a lot of smoke or has an agenda.
NewEra Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, eball said: Leave it to @GunnerBill to bring rational arguments to the conversation. The jury is still out on Tremaine Edmunds but the potential is there, and anyone who claims to know he "has no instincts" and doesn't make impactful plays is just blowing a lot of smoke or has an agenda. I don’t “claim to know that he has no instincts”, but it’s plain to see, imo, that his instincts are lacking when compared to other “pro bowl” linebackers. I love the guy. I just expect much more. I’ve said in the past that he’s been “ok”. I looked up synonyms to the adjective “ok” and this is what popped up: OK DEFINITIONS AND SYNONYMS ADJECTIVESPOKEN US/oʊˈkeɪ/ OTHER ENTRIES FOR THIS WORD + DEFINITIONS4 1 satisfactory. This word often shows that you think that something is not as good as it could or should be. That’s exactly how I view Edmunds. He’s satisfactory. An “ok” player. I just don’t see much more. The tools are there to be great, yet he’s not great. He wasn’t just “ok” in 2019. He was better than ok. I expected more improvement from him in 2020, but he regressed some. I agree that not having a legit 1T and being injured are legit reasons (not excuses) for this regression. I don’t think his age is a reason. Yes, he’s young. He’s not too young where he can’t be great. Plenty of athletes have achieved greatness by the age of 22 (his age last season). 3 years experience as a professional > being young. I expect this to be his make or break year with the bills. If he comes back around and his play improves on his 2019 season, I’ll be happy and will expect them to resign him long term. If he doesn’t reach the level of play he achieved in 2019 this season, I don’t think he’ll be worth resigning. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't have the numbers for tackles for no gain readily accessible to me. In tackles for loss Devin White has as many in two seasons as Edmunds has in 3 and Edmunds lowest output was 4 in 2020 after a very impressive 10 in 2019. Roquan Smith his fellow 1st round linebacker from the same draft class had one fewer in 2020 than Edmunds has for a career. I am not an Edmunds hater, but he does still need to make more impact in the run game and generally his play in 2020 was not as good as 2019 when I genuinely felt he was on the cusp of that elite group of linebackers. I'm pretty confident he will bounce back in 2021 but with Edmunds the debate is so polarised and it is a classic case of the truth genuinely being somewhere in the middle. It's polarized because he has such obvious physical talent......was assigned to a de-valued position and has made only a modest impact.......and so much was invested in him (and continues to be with the enormous fully guaranteed 5th year option the team was compelled to pick up). My contention from the start was that it was a gamble putting the top pass rushing prospect from that 2018 draft at MLB. The Bills thought they had re-invented the wheel with Edmunds..........but MLB's traditionally are a physical reflection of the RB position for a reason.........that's why you don't have guys with edge player physical profiles like Edmunds and Greg Rousseau playing MLB. It absolutely hasn't worked out as planned. In fact, I think they've been lucky that he's remained as healthy as he has in the middle. And, in the meantime, they haven't had a reliable pass rusher. Yes, Devin White and Roquan Smith had 18 TFL's last year..........they totally outclassed Edmunds and their more traditional physical stature and RB-like instincts are why.............but if Edmunds had been used as an edge all this time I suspect his profile would look like that of a MUCH more valuable player than White or Smith.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, NewEra said: I don’t “claim to know that he has no instincts”, but it’s plain to see, imo, that his instincts are lacking when compared to other “pro bowl” linebackers. I love the guy. I just expect much more. I’ve said in the past that he’s been “ok”. I looked up synonyms to the adjective “ok” and this is what popped up: OK DEFINITIONS AND SYNONYMS ADJECTIVESPOKEN US/oʊˈkeɪ/ OTHER ENTRIES FOR THIS WORD + DEFINITIONS4 1 satisfactory. This word often shows that you think that something is not as good as it could or should be. That’s exactly how I view Edmunds. He’s satisfactory. An “ok” player. I just don’t see much more. The tools are there to be great, yet he’s not great. He wasn’t just “ok” in 2019. He was better than ok. I expected more improvement from him in 2020, but he regressed some. I agree that not having a legit 1T and being injured are legit reasons (not excuses) for this regression. I don’t think his age is a reason. Yes, he’s young. He’s not too young where he can’t be great. Plenty of athletes have achieved greatness by the age of 22 (his age last season). 3 years experience as a professional > being young. I expect this to be his make or break year with the bills. If he comes back around and his play improves on his 2019 season, I’ll be happy and will expect them to resign him long term. If he doesn’t reach the level of play he achieved in 2019 this season, I don’t think he’ll be worth resigning. Well put. If he were a 6'1" tall 235# 4th round pick his performance would look a lot better by comparison. He's a lot more talented and invested-in than that. Maybe he puts it together in 2020 and starts looking like a difference maker..........or maybe the wear and tear of the middle continues the 2020 trajectory and takes him the other way.........we shall see. 1
PrimeTime101 Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: PT101, well written my friend. Edmunds has done a lot right, and made some mistakes and played through an injury I suspect was worse than he led on during the season. Not an excuse, he just didn’t look right from game 3-8. I wouldn’t say he’s as good as Devin White, but he is a solid LB and looked a lot better when Milano returned. I called into Polians radio show last week and this was his exact comment that the two compliment each other. What was Captain Obvious to many of us is our front four just wasn’t getting there. The closest to a successful season was Hughes as he was in the backfield quick forcing a number of early throws by opposing QB’s. I’m excited to see what this mew talent will do along with Star back to bring the front four to where it should’ve been last year. It was by far even more than the pedestrian running game our worst deficiency. I think what is not obvious to many is how much the defensive line play effects the play of the LBS. 7 minutes ago, NewEra said: I don’t “claim to know that he has no instincts”, but it’s plain to see, imo, that his instincts are lacking when compared to other “pro bowl” linebackers. I love the guy. I just expect much more. I’ve said in the past that he’s been “ok”. I looked up synonyms to the adjective “ok” and this is what popped up: OK DEFINITIONS AND SYNONYMS ADJECTIVESPOKEN US/oʊˈkeɪ/ OTHER ENTRIES FOR THIS WORD + DEFINITIONS4 1 satisfactory. This word often shows that you think that something is not as good as it could or should be. That’s exactly how I view Edmunds. He’s satisfactory. An “ok” player. I just don’t see much more. The tools are there to be great, yet he’s not great. He wasn’t just “ok” in 2019. He was better than ok. I expected more improvement from him in 2020, but he regressed some. I agree that not having a legit 1T and being injured are legit reasons (not excuses) for this regression. I don’t think his age is a reason. Yes, he’s young. He’s not too young where he can’t be great. Plenty of athletes have achieved greatness by the age of 22 (his age last season). 3 years experience as a professional > being young. I expect this to be his make or break year with the bills. If he comes back around and his play improves on his 2019 season, I’ll be happy and will expect them to resign him long term. If he doesn’t reach the level of play he achieved in 2019 this season, I don’t think he’ll be worth resigning. I don't think Edmunds regressed.. Read my comment earlier in this thread. Defensive lines should dictate where and how offensive lines block.. not the other way around. Our defensive line sucked last year.... the line had 0 gap control and offensive lines could pretty much do what they wanted with our line. you have to grasp onto 2 things. 1. our defensive line SUCKED and that 100% effects LB play. Now I am not saying you are clueless to this fact but many are 2. The guy was injured and played injured so much of that year last year. I think Edmunds is top 7-10 MLB in this league with so much potential to be better. If you think that makes Edmunds "just ok" then I don't know what to say. This short article says it all https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/leslie-frazier-says-tremaine-edmunds-story-isnt-written-yet-on-his-career/71-fdd1644e-f726-4eb0-a2af-6072ede7c720 If Frazier is confident that the story is not written on his career then that brings me confidents. There are so many things that was screwy about last year that put way to much pressure on ILB last year... Playing nickel defense so often, Horrid line play and his injuries all had a hand These are not excuses my friend... these are facts.
NewEra Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: I think what is not obvious to many is how much the defensive line play effects the play of the LBS. I don't think Edmunds regressed.. Read my comment earlier in this thread. Defensive lines should dictate where and how offensive lines block.. not the other way around. Our defensive line sucked last year.... the line had 0 gap control and offensive lines could pretty much do what they wanted with our line. you have to grasp onto 2 things. 1. our defensive line SUCKED and that 100% effects LB play. Now I am not saying you are clueless to this fact but many are 2. The guy was injured and played injured so much of that year last year. I think Edmunds is top 7-10 MLB in this league with so much potential to be better. If you think that makes Edmunds "just ok" then I don't know what to say. This short article says it all https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/leslie-frazier-says-tremaine-edmunds-story-isnt-written-yet-on-his-career/71-fdd1644e-f726-4eb0-a2af-6072ede7c720 If Frazier is confident that the story is not written on his career then that brings me confidents. There are so many things that was screwy about last year that put way to much pressure on ILB last year... Playing nickel defense so often, Horrid line play and his injuries all had a hand These are not excuses my friend... these are facts. I said exactly that…..lack of a 1T and his injury were REASONS, not excuses, why he wasn’t as good in 20 as he was in 19. He DID regress last year. He wasn’t as good as he was the previous year. The reasons he regressed have been stated. you regarding the bolded at the bottom…..I said DL and injuries were reasons……not excuses. You must have read it wrong. In short, you agree with everything that I said. The only difference that I see is that you think that his play didn’t actually regress, because the regression that we all saw, was caused by the DL and injuries. I think his play regressed, while DL and injuries played a major role in his regression….but that doesn’t mean he didn’t regress.
Jobot Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 Our defensive game plan over the past two years is as follows: "Don't get outsmarted" We haven't had the level of D-line talent to enforce our will. Career years coming up for many of our guys this season! 1
PrimeTime101 Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, NewEra said: I said exactly that…..lack of a 1T and his injury were REASONS, not excuses, why he wasn’t as good in 20 as he was in 19. He DID regress last year. He wasn’t as good as he was the previous year. The reasons he regressed have been stated. you regarding the bolded at the bottom…..I said DL and injuries were reasons……not excuses. You must have read it wrong. In short, you agree with everything that I said. The only difference that I see is that you think that his play didn’t actually regress, because the regression that we all saw, was caused by the DL and injuries. I think his play regressed, while DL and injuries played a major role in his regression….but that doesn’t mean he didn’t regress. your right I did read it wrong. To much V8 I guess my bad lol 1
JerseyBills Posted June 30, 2021 Author Posted June 30, 2021 18 hours ago, billybrew1 said: IDK? I'm pretty surprised by this. It goes against what my eyes are telling me.....I mean, I really watch. Im also a Tremaine fan, but I hope he gets better.... a lot better.... I have seen Tremaine wait for the RB to cross the LOS before engaging. Like he was coached to do that. He makes so many tackles downfield it's crazy. I call shenanigans on this stat. It's a legit stat. Bruce provides evidence in the thread. I thought in 2020 Edmunds was hampered by that injury until around week 8-9 and he started looking MUCH better. I don't think it's a coincidence that the defense as a whole also got MUCH better. He does have his bad moments but so does everyone playing in his position. He's extremely reliable, a physical freak,teammates love him and I believe is still a couple years from reaching his ceiling. Great 3 down Mike LBs are not easy to find and I do believe he will be a great 1..
NewEra Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I don't get the hate, I like him I like him too. The fact is, he hasn’t lived up to my expectations of him. He’s been an ok LB that was drafted 16th overall. Thoughts were, this guy can be a star. He hasn’t played like a star. He’s played pretty good at times and even very good in some games. I just expected more. He’s the guy that can transform this D if he can put it all together and dominate
Doc Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 I don't get the hate either. He's been played out-of-position. That's not his fault, and neither is where he was picked. It's not like he called them up and demanded he be selected there, much less played at MLB. 1
NewEra Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doc said: I don't get the hate either. He's been played out-of-position. That's not his fault, and neither is where he was picked. It's not like he called them up and demanded he be selected there, much less played at MLB. Are people really “hating” on him. I don’t think anyone is maliciously going after him. People are stating that he is has underperformed. I didn’t pay close attention to the replies in this thread, but what are some examples of the “hate” that is being spread? I’m not saying some aren’t, I just haven’t seen anything too harsh
Doc Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 1 minute ago, NewEra said: Are people really “hating” on him. I don’t think anyone is maliciously going after him. People are stating that he is has underperformed. I didn’t pay close attention to the replies in this thread, but what are some examples of the “hate” that is being spread? I’m not saying some aren’t, I just haven’t seen anything too harsh Not necessarily hate. It's just the term that's being thrown around.
PrimeTime101 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Doc said: Not necessarily hate. It's just the term that's being thrown around. I think to some that look ad Edmunds and thinks so highly of them then others think so much lower of him it feels like hate 45 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I don't get the hate, I like him I don't think its hate.. just feels that way because some of us are very optimistic and others.. meh 16 minutes ago, Doc said: I don't get the hate either. He's been played out-of-position. That's not his fault, and neither is where he was picked. It's not like he called them up and demanded he be selected there, much less played at MLB. to your bolded.. how do you feel Edmunds has been played out of positing? cause he is a 4-3 MLB and we play mostly nickel? or is it something else?
Doc Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: to your bolded.. how do you feel Edmunds has been played out of positing? cause he is a 4-3 MLB and we play mostly nickel? or is it something else? Outside linebacker and edge rusher.
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