CBS Sports Top 10 NFL HC's

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't understand what is so complex about Flores starting Tua. The Dolphins needed to evaluate him and get him game time for the future. 

And for all of you Tua sucks crowd, his passer rating was 87 with 11 TD and 5 INT. Josh Allen first year passer rating was 67 with 10TD and 12 INT. Tua doesn't have the physical tools Allen has but nobody on this board and probably not even Flores knows just yet how good or bad Tua will play.

Flores preferred Fitzpatrick when the game was on the line.  Does that not say something about Flores and/or Tua?

[Last Guy on the Bench]

21 hours ago, TBBills said:

12 wins above .500 is impressive TBH. Add to the facts he is first time HC.

Exactly. Very impressive actually. Not to mention playoffs 3 out of 4 years with a team that hadn't sniffed the playoffs since the Victorian era. And the one year he missed out, he was starting a rookie QB.

 

I was not a fan of the McD hire at all. Ecstatic to be so wrong. And though he still has his weaknesses, like any coach, I don't see how anyone can look at either his quantitative record or the qualitative vibe of this team and be anything other than deeply impressed.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Last Guy on the Bench

[billsfan89]

3 out of 4 years with a winning record and playoffs for a team that was coming off of a 17 season playoff drought is impressive. Toss in a pair of playoff wins and a division title and you have at the very least a resume for a top 10 coach currently in the league. 

[Captain Hindsight]

22 hours ago, chongli said:

Colin Cowherd was just discussing this list on his radio show. He said Brian Flores should have been rated much higher than 17 ("there are not 16 coaches better than him") and Matt LaFleur should have been much lower, as he inherited Aaron Rodgers and just tweaked the offense a little to make it more physical.

Flores is due for a huge regression. He has a QB he doesn't believe in and an overpaid secondary that got torched by Matt Barkley when they needed to win. Him yanking Tua in and out of games to beat the Raiders was stupid then and it remains stupid.

 

When Miami found out Fitz had covid, they packed it in. The team doesn't believe in Tua and knew without their relief pitcher they didn't have a chance. 

 

He is going to have a huge personal issue soon too with cutting guys 1 year into 4 year deals. When have a few playoff appearances and a couple super bowl rings, you can be ruthless, until then that will get old and guys will go elsewhere where their position is stable 

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Flores is due for a huge regression. He has a QB he doesn't believe in and an overpaid secondary that got torched by Matt Barkley when they needed to win. Him yanking Tua in and out of games to beat the Raiders was stupid then and it remains stupid.

 

When Miami found out Fitz had covid, they packed it in. The team doesn't believe in Tua and knew without their relief pitcher they didn't have a chance. 

 

He is going to have a huge personal issue soon too with cutting guys 1 year into 4 year deals. When have a few playoff appearances and a couple super bowl rings, you can be ruthless, until then that will get old and guys will go elsewhere where their position is stable 

They also benefited from a softer schedule getting to play the Jags and the Bengals compared to us (Titans and Steelers) and won a few games just on defensive and special team touchdowns which isn't sustainable.  

[YoloinOhio]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

They also benefited from a softer schedule getting to play the Jags and the Bengals compared to us (Titans and Steelers) and won a few games just on defensive and special team touchdowns which isn't sustainable.  

I did not see a single Miami game last year in which they played a complete game. Either their offense was trash, defense was trash, or both. Maybe I missed it, not saying I watched every ounce of their season. But it seemed like a turnover dependent defense which isn’t sustainable and an inconsistent offense. 

[Albany,n.y.]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:07 PM, TBBills said:

12 wins above .500 is impressive TBH. Add to the facts he is first time HC.

Sean McDermott is the only first time coach in Bills history with a winning record.  The most successful Bills coaches prior to McDermott all had prior pro football head coaching experience.  All the 1st time HCs failed.  I think the main reason is because Ralph did not believe in paying top dollar for an unproven coach and the hot assistants weren't about to take less money to come to Buffalo with an owner who liked to "make suggestions" to his head coach.  Instead we got coaches who got promoted within like Jim Ringo and Kay Stephenson, and when Ralph went outside the organization, he ended up with coaches like Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, & Doug Marrone.   

[Albany,n.y.]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't understand what is so complex about Flores starting Tua. The Dolphins needed to evaluate him and get him game time for the future. 

And for all of you Tua sucks crowd, his passer rating was 87 with 11 TD and 5 INT. Josh Allen first year passer rating was 67 with 10TD and 12 INT. Tua doesn't have the physical tools Allen has but nobody on this board and probably not even Flores knows just yet how good or bad Tua will play.

Every time I see someone using QB stats I'm reminded how meaningless they are-EVERY ONE of them.  QB rating 87 vs 67-I'd take Allen's rookie year over Tua's 10 times out of 10 because he looked so much better with the game on the line than Tua, whose coach never trusted him with the game on the line.  5 wins in 11 starts (The Houston loss was really on Peterman) was a virtual miracle with the 2018 roster.  11 TDs vs 10 TDs passing to nobody.  Tua total TDs produced when adding in rushing TDs by the QB 14, Josh 18.  Sometimes a QB with guts throws more INTs than someone playing it safe (see Johnson, Edwards & Taylor for examples of Bills QBs afraid to throw the ball).  It's worse when the minor leaguers he's throwing to can't run proper routes like the 2018 Bills WR corps(e).   

 

From the very start Josh Allen was, is & always will be miles ahead of Tua.  Tua sucks and always will.  There's a good chance the 2022 Dolphins QB is Deshaun Watson if he stays out of jail.  

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I did not see a single Miami game last year in which they played a complete game. Either their offense was trash, defense was trash, or both. Maybe I missed it, not saying I watched every ounce of their season. But it seemed like a turnover dependent defense which isn’t sustainable and an inconsistent offense. 

 

And now they don't have Fitz to bail them out.

 

21 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Sean McDermott is the only first time coach in Bills history with a winning record.  The most successful Bills coaches prior to McDermott all had prior pro football head coaching experience.  All the 1st time HCs failed.  I think the main reason is because Ralph did not believe in paying top dollar for an unproven coach and the hot assistants weren't about to take less money to come to Buffalo with an owner who liked to "make suggestions" to his head coach.  Instead we got coaches who got promoted within like Jim Ringo and Kay Stephenson, and when Ralph went outside the organization, he ended up with coaches like Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, & Doug Marrone.   

 

Williams, Mularkey and Marrone were all hot assistants.  They just ended up sucking.

 

2 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Every time I see someone using QB stats I'm reminded how meaningless they are-EVERY ONE of them.  QB rating 87 vs 67-I'd take Allen's rookie year over Tua's 10 times out of 10 because he looked so much better with the game on the line than Tua, whose coach never trusted him with the game on the line.  5 wins in 11 starts (The Houston loss was really on Peterman) was a virtual miracle with the 2018 roster.  11 TDs vs 10 TDs passing to nobody.  Tua total TDs produced when adding in rushing TDs by the QB 14, Josh 18.  Sometimes a QB with guts throws more INTs than someone playing it safe (see Johnson, Edwards & Taylor for examples of Bills QBs afraid to throw the ball).  It's worse when the minor leaguers he's throwing to can't run proper routes like the 2018 Bills WR corps(e).   

 

From the very start Josh Allen was, is & always will be miles ahead of Tua.  Tua sucks and always will.  There's a good chance the 2022 Dolphins QB is Deshaun Watson if he stays out of jail.  

 

Also compare the supporting casts of each player in their rookie years.  Tua had an infinitely better offense around him.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:29 PM, Greg S said:

Reid over Belichick. I don't think so given their respective NFL coaching resume's.

 

Reid didn't have to cheat...

 

Three times...

 

That we know of.......

 

[just1hugheser]

it depends on what strengths you prioritze in your head coach, some guys are better 'schemers' and some guys are better organizers/managers/leaders and the best are a blend of all that.

 

I would say McD is more of a bringer together of guys he knows are the best at what they do and hopefully with experience he himself can get better at the specifically head coach things.

 

Reid and Belichek were schemers first who learned how to be better organizers/leaders etc. imo

 

Flores is overrated right now, I think they have given him pretty good talent.

[machine gun kelly]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:35 PM, Doc said:

I'm curious to see where Belicheat stands after this season.

A couple of thoughts..

 

Belichik will not win more than 9 games this year as Cam or Mac are just not going to win you tough games.  He is a great coach, but you’re not going to do well with those QB’s.  Who realistically thinks either QB can lead that team over us twice, the Bucs, Titans, Colts, Saints, and even the Fins twice.  Maybe the Fins once, and maybe the Saints (Winston is roll of the dice as I watched him down here and he can score, but I don’t know if that eye surgery was really the catalyst to all of those pics).

 

Flores made mistakes with the back and forth with Tua.  Herbert had the same off season last year as Tua and look at the difference.  The Fins may have won more games, but that was due to a number of reasons.  First, last year the Fins had 11 draft picks, and second they spent $235.8 mil. in free agency.  If they wanted to develop Tua, and he really didn’t know the playbook that well, why didn’t they keep Fitz in as the starter until he started losing.  Excuses were made Tua’s hip wasn’t completely healed.  A head coach doesn’t know it.  A head coach can’t figure out Tua wasn’t executing on the playbook.

 

Im fine with McD being placed 5th.  That seems right and agree with the guys ahead of him.  This year will be exciting for the Bills.  We should win 13-14 at least if not more.  That record will look so much better after this year, and I don’t see us regressing at all for a long time.

[CNYfan]

7 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Sean McDermott is the only first time coach in Bills history with a winning record.  The most successful Bills coaches prior to McDermott all had prior pro football head coaching experience.  All the 1st time HCs failed.  I think the main reason is because Ralph did not believe in paying top dollar for an unproven coach and the hot assistants weren't about to take less money to come to Buffalo with an owner who liked to "make suggestions" to his head coach.  Instead we got coaches who got promoted within like Jim Ringo and Kay Stephenson, and when Ralph went outside the organization, he ended up with coaches like Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, & Doug Marrone.   

The difference in ownership attitude goes well beyond the HC.   The Pegulas have an elite FO and Scouting Department.  Beane's assistants are all top notch.  Dollars are not spared there.  Then there is the upgrade to the "facilities".   The OBD facilities were pathetic prior to Mr. Terry and that made it harder to attract talent.   Ralph wasn't just cheap at  HC and free agency,  but top to bottom systemically.   

[machine gun kelly]

Nailed It.

[Albany,n.y.]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Williams, Mularkey and Marrone were all hot assistants.  They just ended up sucking.

 

Maybe Marrone was, although technically he came from Syracuse University and most of his recent jobs were in college & at the time the criticism was when he was NO's OC Payton ran the offense.  

As far as Williams & Mularkey, there were much hotter assistants than either one of them.  When Gregg was hired it was only after Marvin Lewis basically said his wife wouldn't let him go anywhere near Buffalo.  Lewis was the top choice & the Bills settled for Williams.  When Mularkey was hired, pretty much on the cheap end compared to others out there, the talk was that Donahoe hired Mularkey rather than someone else because he wanted a coach that could not gain enough power to push him out like what happened to him in Pittsburgh.   

Edited July 1, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[BigAl2526]

The challenge in evaluating head coaches is in deciding how to weight different areas.  If you weight team performance over a period of time, a great coach who comes into a terrible situation is going to lose early on.  It will take a number of years to lift the team's  (and coach's) win/loss ratio to the lofty numbers to get him counted as a top coach.  David Culley could be an amazing head coach, and nobody's going to know it for years, except maybe some of the players.

 

John Harbaugh is a solid coach, but I have to wonder about one thing.  He went all in on Lamar Jackson, not just in drafting him, but in hiring an offensive coordinator whose pet scheme fits Jackson's unique skill set.  Smart decision?  Maybe.  But there is a possibility that Jackson's unique, but limited skill set is also going to create a ceiling for the Ravens that they can never break to win it all.  It may be that Harbaugh is good enough that Baltimore is never going to be in the position of being able to draft a true franchise QB who can lead his team to another Super Bowl win.  

[GunnerBill]

The 1, 2, 3 is Belichick, Reid and Harbaugh. No question. Payton at #4 is probably right too. McDermott is, I think, as good as any other coach in the league but then you get into how do you rate him above the other guys with rings? It's hard. That said Doug Pederson has a ring and I always said he was a glorified offensive coordinator who I'd never hire as a Head Coach so....

17 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And now they don't have Fitz to bail them out.

 

 

Williams, Mularkey and Marrone were all hot assistants.  They just ended up sucking.

 

 

Also compare the supporting casts of each player in their rookie years.  Tua had an infinitely better offense around him.

 

Marrone wasn't a hot assistant. He was a Head Coach of a middling college programme. He also was hired after Ralph had basically handed it over to Russ. I didn't mind Marrone, he was less objectionable than Rex put it that way. Agree on Williams and Mularkey though. They were hot assistants when the Bills hired them.