Bills rushing - yards before contact

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It was not that, he had no issue passing medical exam for Bengals.

 

Oh and I was misdiagnosed with plantar fasciitis and diagnosis was wrong.

Fortunately doctor realized it when he started treated me for it and I was almost crippled and had a MRI done.

Had a cyst size of a golf ball wrapped around ankle bones, sinews and blood vessels.

It took doctors 8 years to figure it out.

Doctors are artists not scientists. 

 

 

Yea but I actually have had plantar fasciitis. It is not pleasant. 

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree that's what you see and think, I've thought the same thing.   But see my long post.   I think they have a different vision.  I think their vision is that they will get the best football players they can get, every year, and the coaches will figure out how to maximize the returns on the talent they have.   They aren't looking for round pegs and round holes.   Beane is just dumping the best talent he can find on McDermott and saying, "here, you're the chef."

 

But they have changed plan at least once in mid stream that has left the scheme, blocking talent and back talent misaligned. There is no disputing that as far as I am concerned it is absolutely clear by their moves and their actions. 

[Big Turk]

On 6/29/2021 at 11:42 AM, BarleyNY said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

 

Rushing yards before contact is generally considered a good measure of how effective a team’s OL is in run blocking.  While the Bills OL seems to be built to pass block well, they do not seem to be doing a good job at all of run blocking.  The exception would be if RBs aren’t doing a good job of finding/hitting the holes opened for them.

 

The link above shows Singletary 3rd worst in the league with 1.5 yards before contact/attempt and Moss 9th worst at 1.8 ybc/a.  I think it is unlikely that both are that bad at finding and hitting holes so it looks like it on the OL.

 

Both backs seem to be excellent at getting yards after contact though.  Link  Singletary is 2nd with 2.9 and Moss is 13th with 2.4.  Looking at those numbers I can certainly see why the Bills didn’t draft a RB, but it makes me wonder why they didn’t try to upgrade the OL, especially the interior. 

 

Maybe they feel it was technique related and it can be fixed with a proper off-season and training camp?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:42 AM, BarleyNY said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

 

Rushing yards before contact is generally considered a good measure of how effective a team’s OL is in run blocking.  While the Bills OL seems to be built to pass block well, they do not seem to be doing a good job at all of run blocking.  The exception would be if RBs aren’t doing a good job of finding/hitting the holes opened for them.

 

The link above shows Singletary 3rd worst in the league with 1.5 yards before contact/attempt and Moss 9th worst at 1.8 ybc/a.  I think it is unlikely that both are that bad at finding and hitting holes so it looks like it on the OL.

 

Both backs seem to be excellent at getting yards after contact though.  Link  Singletary is 2nd with 2.9 and Moss is 13th with 2.4.  Looking at those numbers I can certainly see why the Bills didn’t draft a RB, but it makes me wonder why they didn’t try to upgrade the OL, especially the interior. 

 

Interview with Bobby Johnson in TBN:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bobby-johnson-on-in-person-workouts-continuity-and-improvement-of-the-bills-o-line/article_5e0accf4-c9f1-11eb-8187-13fd8c457532.html

 

Quote

Buffalo News: Just how much does it mean to have all of the starting offensive line return intact?

Bobby Johnson: From just a coach's standpoint, you love continuity, especially when you're coming off a good season, because there are fewer variables. But you're always looking to get better, you're always looking to improve. (....) It's obviously easier to start working on some of your issues when everybody's coming from the same reference point. That's the positive of having everybody back, but I do like having some newness. I like having the new rookies, I do like having some of the new free agents. Because you're always looking to get better and if any of those new pieces can make you better, that's what you're trying to do.

 

Quote

BN: To what extent did the offensive line factor into the struggles of the running game last season?

BJ: Inherently, as a line coach, your kind of calling card, if you will, is, "Well, how did you run the ball?" I'm an old soul, but I may not be thoroughly old school in that train of thought. At the end of the day, I want to block whatever's called how we want it to be blocked. But from the running game standpoint, we just need to get better at running the ball efficiently. I don't get caught up in the volume. I don't get caught up in how many times you call (a run play). You do whatever it takes to win.
 

Last year, full transparency, we had too many negative runs, and that falls directly on my shoulders, whether it be the players weren't put in the best position schematically from a run standpoint, or whether they just didn't get the job done and our technique was flawed. When we looked at it very critically, that was the issue: our effectiveness was impeded by the fact that we had too many negative runs. So, at the end of the day, the goal is to run the ball efficiently, and that's a matter of, when you do call it, eliminate the negative runs with a hat for a hat and gain positive yardage and stay ahead of the chains, if you will. That's what we're working on right now and that's going to be the goal moving forward. It's an efficient run game, not necessarily a volume run game.

 

I mean I don't expect the guy to sell out the playbook, but that last comes across to me as gobbletygook. 

 

For the first part, it sounds as though Johnson isn't locked in on the same OL as last year, which I think is a Good Thing

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Maybe they feel it was technique related and it can be fixed with a proper off-season and training camp?

 

That seems to be what Johnson is implying

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/29/2021 at 11:10 AM, DCofNC said:

I really think the blocking scheme needs to be looked at, this team is built for a Zone Scheme and try’s to play road grader, which just doesn’t cut it.  Morse is crazy athletic, and the Guards aren’t big enough to run over real interior players, they need to quit pretending they have the personnel for a smash mouth style run game.  More pulls etc would be great, instead the RBs are primarily trying to get back to the LoS at this point.  They are pretty good pass blockers, but I was pretty disappointed to see them not try to upgrade the O-line this offseason.

 

Watch the Cover1 Youtube piece on this.  Bills were primarily a zone-blocking run team last season.

 

 

 

 

In 2019 when we ran the ball better, we ran more gap

 

 

 

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Interview with Bobby Johnson in TBN:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bobby-johnson-on-in-person-workouts-continuity-and-improvement-of-the-bills-o-line/article_5e0accf4-c9f1-11eb-8187-13fd8c457532.html

 

 

 

I mean I don't expect the guy to sell out the playbook, but that last comes across to me as gobbletygook. 

 

For the first part, it sounds as though Johnson isn't locked in on the same OL as last year, which I think is a Good Thing

 

That seems to be what Johnson is implying

 

He didn't want to call out anyone and wanted to put the blame on himself.  Like any good coach will do in public.

 

But he wasn't just implying: he's actually saying if there is someone playing better than a guy currently pencilled-in as starter, he'll start him,

[GreggTX]

I wonder if we'd be having this conversation if that 2nd pick had been an OL. I hope Basham does OK, but I still think if there had been a solid OL prospect there in round 2, we'd be better off. Of course, we don't know what their board looked like so let's just hope they chose wisely.

[Captain Hindsight]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:24 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

On the contrary.

 

When you say "within a yard" you're missing the point. You could say they're all within a yard if some got 0.0001 yard and others got 0.9999 yards. Still a huge variance, though. Same with the figure here.

 

Within a yard is a very significant difference when the percentage of difference is so large.

 

If everyone was within a yard between, say 12 and 13 yards, yeah, it's insignificant. Now, that would be minisiscule variation, where the figures only vary around 8%.

 

If on the other hand you're looking at a list (as you are here) where the variation is between 2.0 and 3.0 yards, that's a 50% variation in productivity in that area. That's very significant difference indeed.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:56 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I mean I don't expect the guy to sell out the playbook, but that last comes across to me as gobbletygook. 

 

For the first part, it sounds as though Johnson isn't locked in on the same OL as last year, which I think is a Good Thing

I don’t see it that way at all. Why did we have so many negative running plays? Because we often didn’t have our best OL on the field for particular runs. Because our opponents know who is better at run vs pass and vise-versa, we have to be more creative in our play calling so as not to telegraph what the play is, given which OL are on the field. Our RBs are really very elusive -if we can get them through the LOS. To me, that’s where the focus needs to be this year. Morse may be weaker in run blocking than Mongo at Center, but creating ways for Mitch to aid a run play enough to give the RB a running start will result in better play, imo. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I don’t see it that way at all. Why did we have so many negative running plays? Because we often didn’t have our best OL on the field for particular runs. Because our opponents know who is better at run vs pass and vise-versa, we have to be more creative in our play calling so as not to telegraph what the play is, given which OL are on the field. Our RBs are really very elusive -if we can get them through the LOS. To me, that’s where the focus needs to be this year. Morse may be weaker in run blocking than Mongo at Center, but creating ways for Mitch to aid a run play enough to give the RB a running start will result in better play, imo. 

 

Question: why single out Morse as the problem with the OL run blocking?

 

I watched a lot of run plays after the season ended.  Now it's always hard to tell just what the assignment was, but in general when I watched last year's film, Morse was typically Doing His Job as a run blocker.  Ford while he was in there was pretty awful - he was on injury report for his lower limbs but at times it seemed he just couldn't move his arms correctly.  Boettger seemed better.  Feliciano was pretty bad, and I know his arms weren't at full strength but it often seemed to be his feet that weren't getting him into the correct position.  Williams was also not so good.

 

Knox got beaten like a drum in run blocking a lot.

 

Mongo needs to write out "Slow Feet Don't Eat" and tape it up over his bathroom mirror IMO.  Knox needs to get in the playbook more and know who his assignment was in time to get in their way.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

😳 Where did I mention Moss? 

 

Anyway, create LOS opportunities to spring the RBs . Leave the LBs & DBs to the RBs to beat.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

😳 Where did I mention Moss? 

 

Anyway, create LOS opportunities to spring the RBs . Leave the LBs & DBs to the RBs to beat.

 

If this is to me, I didn't see you mention Moss.  You mentioned Morse, Mitch Morse:

"Morse may be weaker in run blocking than Mongo at Center, but creating ways for Mitch to aid a run play enough to give the RB a running start will result in better play, imo. "

 

My question is why single out Morse as the problem with the OL run blocking?  The problems clearly went well beyond him and included Mongo and before he was IR'd, Ford.

 

Which brings up IMHO the question of whether it's really reasonable to expect an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Feliciano-Williams to be an improvement in next seasons' run game?  If one believes the guards were seriously hampered by injuries, Yes.  If one believes they're just not that good, or they're likely to suffer similar injuries again, we better have a Plan B.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I don’t see it that way at all. Why did we have so many negative running plays? Because we often didn’t have our best OL on the field for particular runs. Because our opponents know who is better at run vs pass and vise-versa, we have to be more creative in our play calling so as not to telegraph what the play is, given which OL are on the field. Our RBs are really very elusive -if we can get them through the LOS. To me, that’s where the focus needs to be this year. Morse may be weaker in run blocking than Mongo at Center, but creating ways for Mitch to aid a run play enough to give the RB a running start will result in better play, imo. 

 

This belongs in the "remembering" McCoy thread...

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My question is why single out Morse as the problem with the OL run blocking?  The problems clearly went well beyond him and included Mongo and before he was IR'd, Ford.

 

Because he’s significantly weaker vs the run than Mongo at Center by the eye test. Been so since ‘19.

 

Would you prefer a bio on all of them?

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This belongs in the "remembering" McCoy thread...

 

Does it?  He averaged over 100 YPG in total offense his 3 years in Buffalo when they had a decent OL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Because he’s significantly weaker vs the run than Mongo at Center by the eye test. Been so since ‘19.

 

Would you prefer a bio on all of them?

 

No, I'd like you to explain which games in 2019 demonstrated that Morse was "significantly weaker vs. the run than Mongo at Center" and how/why?

If your "eye test" tells you that, well and good, but you should be able to come up with a few descriptives.

 

My point is, we don't have Mongo playing center most of the time.  We have him playing RG.  What does your "eye test" tell you about his run blocking in 2020 at RG?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

I agree that Morse is not a strong run blocker but he was 2nd among centers in pass block win rate and the Bills offense was all about passing the ball. 

  None of the guards or tackles stood out (top 10) in run blocking or pass blocking.   

  The Bills line as a whole was ranked 29th in run blocking win rate, so I'm thinking there were multiple weak spots on the line in that regard. They were ranked 4th in pass blocking. 

 Just an improvement to league average in run blocking would make a huge difference adding balance and making the offense even harder to stop.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

 

I would also agree that Morse is not strong as an all-around run blocker.  He can be good if used appropriately for his skills.  He's not a power guy.

 

My point is that the problems with run blocking on the OL ran way beyond Morse and included guys who are being held up as better run blockers.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Does it?  He averaged over 100 YPG in total offense his 3 years in Buffalo when they had a decent OL.

Cool…but read the bolded I was responding to 

[Chandler#81]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, I'd like you to explain which games in 2019 demonstrated that Morse was "significantly weaker vs. the run than Mongo at Center" and how/why?

If your "eye test" tells you that, well and good, but you should be able to come up with a few descriptives.

 

My point is, we don't have Mongo playing center most of the time.  We have him playing RG.  What does your "eye test" tell you about his run blocking in 2020 at RG?

-and I’d like you to dance the Merengue wearing a big red clown nose. 🤪

Life is full of disappointment.

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cool…but read the bolded I was responding to 

Yeah, before I posted I tried searching for negative runs to see if Shady was a leader in them. I couldn’t find any data. Got a link?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Does 'north-south' yardage count?  If so, C.J. Spill'um should be getting a Canton gold blazer any day now. 😁