Bills rushing - yards before contact

[BarleyNY]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

 

Rushing yards before contact is generally considered a good measure of how effective a team’s OL is in run blocking.  While the Bills OL seems to be built to pass block well, they do not seem to be doing a good job at all of run blocking.  The exception would be if RBs aren’t doing a good job of finding/hitting the holes opened for them.

 

The link above shows Singletary 3rd worst in the league with 1.5 yards before contact/attempt and Moss 9th worst at 1.8 ybc/a.  I think it is unlikely that both are that bad at finding and hitting holes so it looks like it on the OL.

 

Both backs seem to be excellent at getting yards after contact though.  Link  Singletary is 2nd with 2.9 and Moss is 13th with 2.4.  Looking at those numbers I can certainly see why the Bills didn’t draft a RB, but it makes me wonder why they didn’t try to upgrade the OL, especially the interior. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I heard this on a segment/podcast not too long ago but didn't know where to look it up.  

I think they're going to change their run blocking philosophy since we are essentially going with the same everything.

[Matt_In_NH]

Just a thought, you also should  consider scheme, the Bills run more 10 and 11 personnel than any other team in the league so they have less big guys blocking.  Also the defense counters with 5-6 DB's so smaller guys might explain the run after contact being high.

Edited June 29, 2021 by mattynh

[DCofNC]

I really think the blocking scheme needs to be looked at, this team is built for a Zone Scheme and try’s to play road grader, which just doesn’t cut it.  Morse is crazy athletic, and the Guards aren’t big enough to run over real interior players, they need to quit pretending they have the personnel for a smash mouth style run game.  More pulls etc would be great, instead the RBs are primarily trying to get back to the LoS at this point.  They are pretty good pass blockers, but I was pretty disappointed to see them not try to upgrade the O-line this offseason.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Lack of speed in a small RB is a killer in the NFL.  I think much of the problem with Devins  very low yards before contact/attempt is his lack of speed.   And Zach Moss is no speed demon either.  I dont think the Bills current regime has done a good job at drafting RBs.  I think that is why they signed Matt Breida, we finally have some speed in the backfield.

[Chandler#81]

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I heard this on a segment/podcast not too long ago but didn't know where to look it up.  

I think they're going to change their run blocking philosophy since we are essentially going with the same everything.

imo, this is the fallout from a designed team concept of everybody being able to play every position along both lines. In the ‘daze of yore’, a team was either Zone Blocking or man on man Road Graders. We would get screwed with new coaches every couple years as each of them wanted the opposite of what we were trying to build and adding specific skill sets for on the OL. Couple this with Allen being an uncommon running entity and the rush game as a whole being an afterthought, I don’t see anything of note changing any time soon. 

Look at our OL. Feliciano and Ford are road graders who can be a liability in Passpro, while Morse and D. Williams are great at Passpro, not so much at run blocking. We don’t know who we are -and we don’t give a damn. We’ve got Josh Allen.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

They also need to do a better job of disguising their runs. The defenses always seemed to know it was coming and crashed the backfield. Adding a dynamic receiving TE would make it more possible to run and pass equally from a 2 TE set 

[Mr. WEO]

54 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

 

Rushing yards before contact is generally considered a good measure of how effective a team’s OL is in run blocking.  While the Bills OL seems to be built to pass block well, they do not seem to be doing a good job at all of run blocking.  The exception would be if RBs aren’t doing a good job of finding/hitting the holes opened for them.

 

The link above shows Singletary 3rd worst in the league with 1.5 yards before contact/attempt and Moss 9th worst at 1.8 ybc/a.  I think it is unlikely that both are that bad at finding and hitting holes so it looks like it on the OL.

 

Both backs seem to be excellent at getting yards after contact though.  Link  Singletary is 2nd with 2.9 and Moss is 13th with 2.4.  Looking at those numbers I can certainly see why the Bills didn’t draft a RB, but it makes me wonder why they didn’t try to upgrade the OL, especially the interior. 

 

These differences (1.8, 1.3 or 2.4, 2.9) is +/- a foot.  This pretty much renders differences between the values are pretty tiny when it's 10 yards for a 1st down. The vast majority of the RBs in the league have YBC/A between 1.5 and 2.7 yards.

 

These stats have little value, I think.

[MJS]

I thought this was all common knowledge, but with all the hate that Singletary gets, I guess not. We do not need a running back. We need better run blocking.

[LABILLBACKER]

38 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Lack of speed in a small RB is a killer in the NFL.  I think much of the problem with Devins  very low yards before contact/attempt is his lack of speed.   And Zach Moss is no speed demon either.  I dont think the Bills current regime has done a good job at drafting RBs.  I think that is why they signed Matt Breida, we finally have some speed in the backfield.

And that's his biggest flaw, besides stone hands. Without a reasonable burst, it won't matter if there was a hole/seam there or not. Personally I think this is Devin's last season in Buffalo. And then our eyes will focus on whether Moss pans out. It's imperative we improve our run game to win a SB. JA17 can't be expected to do it all.

[mushypeaches]

I really don't get the hate for Singletary.  He's an excellent pass-protector, and more than adequate receiver and rusher for the pass-heavy schemes that we run.  These are the most critical elements of his role on this team, and as noted, we have had a lot of turnover on the OL and again, the heavy emphasis on pass-blocking skills vs run-blocking.

 

He's just fine, and also comes cheap without a lot of tread on the tires.  Let's not be so hasty to run him out of town yet

[Rochesterfan]

 

Cover1 did a great video analysis of the running game and covered all this.

 

The offense switched up their blocking scheme to better merge with the pass blocking scheme and the switch to more 3-4 WRs and no full back.  This switch also moved the primary TE off the LOS more and into an H-Back role.  The final piece was this was designed with the original starting 5 OL last year (Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Feliciano, Ford/Williams) and those guys never played a snap together.  
 

Compounding the switch was the decrease in practice and preseason to get the timing working together - especially on double teams and combo blocks.  The blocking scheme adjustment also was very new for Singletary - who admitted he was more comfortable in a straight ahead man scheme rather than the combo blocking double team/zone style and he mis-read some holes and totally missed some runs.

 

I believe from listening to the coaches and the Cover1 guys that they felt the run game had some potential, but they needed to focus on it and last year the big focus was on Josh Allen and the passing attack.  They gave a much higher percentage of their practice time to getting timing and passing calls meshed together than putting in a running attack and that showed in the stats.

 

In the end - I believe they realize scoring comes from the passing game and they just need to do a little better in the running game when forcing teams into coverage - nickel and dime sets.  I think they will take a lesser running game if they can keep the explosive passing game, but I expect with increased preseason and practice - they will mesh a bit better than last year - I don’t expect them to lead the league or even run significantly more times than last year, but I think they will be more efficient and effective.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[CuseBill]

Another overlooked issue is how well wide receivers run block downfield.  I recently re-watched last season's game vs. LA Rams and it struck me how well LAR's wide receivers are designed to and actually block downfield on run plays.  Robert Woods especially is a good downfield run blocker who stays with his blocks.  I noticed how our WR's do not stay with blocks and DB's are immediately able to provide run support.  That must have an effect on yards after initial contact if a DB can just fly up and make a hit because they have not been engaged at all.  By the way, Bills had 101 rushing yards in that game and LAR had 167. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Cover1 did a great video analysis of the running game and covered all this.

 

The offense switched up their blocking scheme to better merge with the pass blocking scheme and the switch to more 3-4 WRs and no full back.  This switch also moved the primary TE off the LOS more and into an H-Back role.  The final piece was this was designed with the original starting 5 OL last year (Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Feliciano, Ford/Williams) and those guys never played a snap together.  
 

Compounding the switch was the decrease in practice and preseason to get the timing working together - especially on double teams and combo blocks.  The blocking scheme adjustment also was very new for Singletary - who admitted he was more comfortable in a straight ahead man scheme rather than the combo blocking double team/zone style and he mis-read some holes and totally missed some runs.

 

I believe from listening to the coaches and the Cover1 guys that they felt the run game had some potential, but they needed to focus on it and last year the big focus was on Josh Allen and the passing attack.  They gave a much higher percentage of their practice time to getting timing and passing calls meshed together than putting in a running attack and that showed in the stats.

 

In the end - I believe they realize scoring comes from the passing game and they just need to do a little better in the running game when forcing teams into coverage - nickel and dime sets.  I think they will take a lesser running game if they can keep the explosive passing game, but I expect with increased preseason and practice - they will mesh a bit better than last year - I don’t expect them to lead the league or even run significantly more times than last year, but I think they will be more efficient and effective.

 

 

 

All makes sense to me.  Tons of negative runs too.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

These differences (1.8, 1.3 or 2.4, 2.9) is +/- a foot.  This pretty much renders differences between the values are pretty tiny when it's 10 yards for a 1st down. The vast majority of the RBs in the league have YBC/A between 1.5 and 2.7 yards.

 

These stats have little value, I think.

 

His Yards after contact number is in pretty good company.  It's the yards before contact there that need the most improvement.  Be it oline, his ability to find holes, or playcalling (probably all 3).  

 

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

We don’t know who we are -and we don’t give a damn. We’ve got Josh Allen.

 

Well said Chand!  Well said.

[DJB]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

I really think the blocking scheme needs to be looked at, this team is built for a Zone Scheme and try’s to play road grader, which just doesn’t cut it.  Morse is crazy athletic, and the Guards aren’t big enough to run over real interior players, they need to quit pretending they have the personnel for a smash mouth style run game.  More pulls etc would be great, instead the RBs are primarily trying to get back to the LoS at this point.  They are pretty good pass blockers, but I was pretty disappointed to see them not try to upgrade the O-line this offseason.

 

Absolutely concur. And thankfully as Cover 1 explained, the running game on the back half of the season went to a more zone scheme and moved away from power. Moss thrives in zone and Singletary struggled. Whereas in power Devin was more productive and Moss struggled. 

 

We need to go with zone and run with Moss. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by DJB

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

These differences (1.8, 1.3 or 2.4, 2.9) is +/- a foot.  This pretty much renders differences between the values are pretty tiny when it's 10 yards for a 1st down. The vast majority of the RBs in the league have YBC/A between 1.5 and 2.7 yards.

 

These stats have little value, I think.

 

When things move that fast, every inch, every foot counts.  A foot is the difference on whether or not you need to continue on that path or immediately changing direction.  It doesn't just apply to football, pretty much any fast moving sport.  

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

These differences (1.8, 1.3 or 2.4, 2.9) is +/- a foot.  This pretty much renders differences between the values are pretty tiny when it's 10 yards for a 1st down. The vast majority of the RBs in the league have YBC/A between 1.5 and 2.7 yards.

 

These stats have little value, I think.

That the numbers for our two main RBs are close was part of my point.  It supports the issue being with the blocking and not with them.  Also both have very good yards after contact which supports them being good RBs. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by BarleyNY

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

Absolutely concur. And thankfully as Cover 1 explained, the running game on the back half of the season went to a more zone scheme and moved away from power. Moss thrives in zone and Singletary struggled. Whereas in power Devin was more productive and Moss struggled. 

 

We need to go with zone and run with Moss. 

I think DS would be able to adapt to a zone scheme, Moss pretty much is the perfect back for Zone, he’s very North/South and will break arm tackles all day.   DS is used to hiding behind his block and then bursting out, he’s just got to understand how that works in Zone, you ride the shoulder, not the rear and blast into the seam, not the open field.  It’s a different thing, but I don’t see why he couldn’t, he’s not really a dancer, he’s just got crazy quick moves, which could work.   Shady would never work because he had no discipline to hit the right hole and trust it to open, he ALWAYS looked outside and for the open field.  He sucked between the tackles for good reason, he wanted home runs not doubles, but when it was goal line, he could find the seam and slip through, that’s the whole zone scheme.  DS can do that and with his low center of gravity and suddenness, combined with the fact he’s a little bowling ball, I see no reason he couldn’t be VERY good at it.  Will he? That’s another question all together.

Edited June 29, 2021 by DCofNC