Honest discussion about racism (non political)

[SoCal Deek]

Here we all are on here having lengthy, rather intelligent discussions about racism and has one person come on and espoused any hate speech about blacks?  Not that I've read.  I offer up that most of this is like when you have a zit on your nose.  You think everyone is looking at your nose....but they aren't. People are worried about the zit on their own nose, not the one on yours. You're of course free to think that your neighbors, community, city and country are out to get you or to keep you down, but they aren't! People barely have time to promote themselves let alone spend time keeping you oppressed.  Get over yourself! 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Is this disparity for the same home, same level of up keep in the same neighborhood with same same schools and same access to amenities and same level of crime?  
 

So in other words there are two nearly identical home across my street, on poc owned, one white owned.
 

You are saying if both put their house on the market, simultaneously the market would assign a lower value to the poc home? 

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Proportionality is funny, it seems to be used only conveniently. 

 

thus are you suggesting the proportion of money distributed by race favors a certain demographic? 
 

the data in this link disputes that and says poc household many times more like to receive benefits.  

 

https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8

 

Yes, a higher percentage of black people have been in poverty than the percentage of white people, and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed. I simply believe those are lies they have been fed to stoke the narrative that white people are ripped off by welfare. 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes, a highwr percentage of black people have been in poverty and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed.

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Oh come on. Just last night you claimed blacks were ‘targeted’ during the mortgage crisis. You seem to be cherry picking now.

[Motorin']

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Oh come on. Just last night you claimed blacks were ‘targeted’ during the mortgage crisis. You seem to be cherry picking now.

 

Why do you choose abrasive language aimed at shutting me up rather than addressing the substance of my posts? 

 

Enough already.... Oh come on... Thanks for the lack of discussion...

 

You've already made up your mind that you are right and I am wrong and are using juvenile behavior to try to shut me down. 

 

Not appreciated.

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Were systematically denied.  WWII ended nearly 80 years or 3-4 generations ago.  

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Were systematically denied.  WWII ended nearly 80 years or 3-4 generations ago.  

 

My grandpa fought in WWII and used his zero down VA loan to buy a house for around 15k. He passed away in the 90's, but my grandma kept on trucking. When she passed away about 10 years ago, we sold the house for over 200k. Money in our pockets that my grandparents were able to leave us in the 2010's. 

 

As I've pointed out, the value of home equity that middle and working class white families were able to pass on to future generations that they bought with federally subsidized mortgages is over 1 trillion dollars in total.

 

Black families were systematically denied access to these programs that lasted over 40 years after WWII, and as a result were denied the ability to pass on equity to future generations. 

 

But the discrimination in housing policy and practice doesn't end in the 20th century. They continue to this very day. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

51 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

I did read them, but it smelled like an agenda piece. I’d love to see a larger study examining similar houses in same neighborhoods. It’s the only way to have legitimate comparative study and meaningful conclusion. 
 

Saying everything it a race thing then finding some examples isn’t scientific or conclusive. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes, a higher percentage of black people have been in poverty than the percentage of white people, and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed. I simply believe those are lies they have been fed to stoke the narrative that white people are ripped off by welfare. 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Maybe, I think the only people ripped off by welfare are those paying for it. Some people really need it, some don’t and are just abusing the systems.

 

You want to fix disadvantaged kids? Look no further then how many parents they have. That fact statically surpasses every other categorization you want to try. 
 

Why does that end up correlating to racial disparity??? Here is why. 
 

Quote

Broken down by race, however, the statistics show stark differences.  The percentage of White children under 18 who live with both parents almost doubles that of Black children, according to the data. While 74.3 percent of all White children below the age of 18 live with both parents, only 38.7 percent of African-American minors can say the same.

https://afro.com/census-bureau-higher-percentage-black-children-live-single-mothers/

 

 

Fix that and watch inequity vanish. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Big Blitz]

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issues by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

Edited June 28, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Unforgiven]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issued by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

It has zero to do with actual racism. If you can't see this clearly you're too stupid to deal with.

[unbillievable]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

 

Did you read the links you posted?

 

You're claiming that a home gets assessed lower, and higher at the same time. You do realize that they only do one assessment per year, right?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issued by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

 

She's representing the state of the country perfectly.

[Motorin']

13 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Did you read the links you posted?

 

You're claiming that a home gets assessed lower, and higher at the same time. You do realize that they only do one assessment per year, right?

 

 

 

You are not correct sir. County governments that levy property taxes vary greatly in how often they determine assessment value for the purpose of property taxes. Black  owned homes are over assessed for the purposes of property taxation by 15% nationwide.

 

Black homeowners who pay to have their home's market value commercially assessed when they are in the process of selling, refinancing or applying for a home equity loan have the value of their homes under valued by a much higher percentage. That's what the data and evidence in the articles I posted state.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

She's representing the state of the country perfectly.

 

Land of the free, no?

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[unbillievable]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

You are not correct sir. County governments that levy property taxes vary greatly in how often they determine assessment value for the purpose of property taxes. Black  owned homes are over assessed for the purposes of pretty taxes by 15% nationwide.

 

Black homeowners who have their home's market value assessed when they are in the process of selling, refinancing or applying for a home equity loan have the value of their homes under valued by a much higher percentage. That's what the data and evidence in the articles I posted state.

 

 

That is not what is in the articles you posted. That is what they use in the headlines.

 

Try reading the entire article. They're saying that two groups of people have different outcomes, so it must be racist; which is not evidence.

 

Evidence shows that it snows more on white people. Black people are affected more by floods. Weather is racist.

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

A simple check of facts; according  Motorin'

 

Houses in predominantly black neighborhoods are worth more than those in other neighborhoods because taxes are racist. Check zillow in your city and see if this is true.

20 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Land of the free, no?

 

Nothing says freedom like sending a represensative who hates  what they represent.

 

When the athletes walk around olympic stadium, at least 1/3 of the flags should be on fire.

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

A simple check of facts; according  Motorin'

 

Houses in predominantly black neighborhoods are worth more than those in other neighborhoods because taxes are racist. Check zillow in your city and see if this is true.

 

You could not have stated the facts more backwards if you tried. It's like you are trying be wrong. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-09/racial-inequality-broken-property-tax-system-blocks-black-wealth-building

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Maybe, I think the only people ripped off by welfare are those paying for it. Some people really need it, some don’t and are just abusing the systems.

 

You want to fix disadvantaged kids? Look no further then how many parents they have. That fact statically surpasses every other categorization you want to try. 
 

Why does that end up correlating to racial disparity??? Here is why. 
 

https://afro.com/census-bureau-higher-percentage-black-children-live-single-mothers/

 

 

Fix that and watch inequity vanish. 

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

[Frat-Train]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

I don’t agree with all of the points and content you’ve provided, but you have stated your points and provided plenty of supporting documents to help others see your point through a more objective lens. I sincerely thank you for that And please don’t take that as condescending.  I did read what you linked and have formed an opinion different than what you’ve formed.  We don’t have to agree, we just need to be better listeners and more respectful of different viewpoints.  Thank you for not just making baseless claims, and for entering into a discussion beyond rhetoric or partisan speaking points.  Also, thank you for the links!!!  🍻

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

Single parent households stand up statistically as a root cause of poverty way better than race. I know it deconstructs a liberal narrative, but it’s reality, and logically so. Break the cycle that incentivize single parent child bearing, drive home education that it’s an economically poor choice snd watch the inequity vanish. 

 

Quote

4. Single-parent families headed by women of color rank worse on the poverty scale.

(Single Mother Guide)

According to single-parent household statistics by race, approximately two out of five families headed by black females have been reported to live in poverty (37%), which is higher than that of white single-mother families (29%) and Asian single-mother families (29%). 

In general, single mothers are still more likely to be poor than married couples, for quite obvious reasons. According to 2017’s statistics, the poverty rate for single-mother families was 34%, significantly greater than the poverty rate for married couples (6%).

 

https://2date4love.com/single-mother-statistics/

[Motorin']

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Single parent households stand up statistically as a root cause of poverty way better than race. I know it deconstructs a liberal narrative, but it’s reality, and logically so. Break the cycle that incentivize single parent child bearing, drive home education that it’s an economically poor choice snd watch the inequity vanish. 

 

https://2date4love.com/single-mother-statistics/

 

It's not necessarily an either or situation. If we are strictly talking about breaking out of poverty, absolutely having a two parent household plays a huge role in most cases. 

 

There is big a difference between breaking out of poverty, and traversing the massive wealth gap created from hundreds of years of unpaid slavery, a hundred years of segregation and discrimination followed by 50 years of attempts to root out the remnants of discrimination.