Honest discussion about racism (non political)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

28 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

That does not come off as someone who wants to have an open discussion on the topic.

Seems like a pretty straightforward question about an assertion…. Take the opportunity to elaborate and educate! I’m interested in learning this too

[Motorin']

22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Seems like a pretty straightforward question about an assertion…. Take the opportunity to elaborate and educate! I’m interested in learning this too

 

There's multiple areas of systemic racism still at work, but I'll start with just one to keep matters concise. 

 

Black owned homes are appraised on average 200k less than comparable white owned homes at the time of sale and for home equity loan purposes, while black owned homes are over assessed for the purpose of property taxation compared to white owned homes.

 

https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/09/24/housing-racial-disparities-race-still-determines-home-values-America

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03/appraisers-acknowledge-bias-in-home-valuations

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/for-black-homeowners-a-common-conundrum-with-appraisals/2021/01/20/80fbfb50-543c-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

 

https://www.enterprisecommunity.org/blog/07/20/unpacking-racial-disparities-in-property-taxes

 

Middle class and working class black Americans were deprived access to federally subsidized home loans throughout much of the 20th century, were specifically targeted during the subprime / variable rate lending boondoggle that nearly collapsed our economy in the mid 2000's, and continue to pay more than their fair share in property taxes while having the value of their homes devalued by the assessment industry when they go to sell or obtain home equity loans.

 

The result of 20th deprivation and 21st century discrimination in property taxation and home valuation is the leading cause in the vast discrepancy in wealth between black and white families. 

 

White families have an average of 188k in wealth while black families have an average of 24k in wealth....

 

Next I'll do disparities in marijuana charges, where black Americans are charged with possession of pot nearly 400% more than white Americans dispite similar usage.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

53 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

That does not come off as someone who wants to have an open discussion on the topic.

Actually... it’s the most honest thing I’ve read on here so far. Someone please name me a racist law? 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Actually... it’s the most honest thing I’ve read on here so far. Someone please name me a racist law? 

 

Have a great night.

[SoCal Deek]

18 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Have a great night.

Likewise 

thanks for the lack of discussion 

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Likewise 

thanks for the lack of discussion 

 

I don't believe your participation is in good faith in this thread. I think  your demands are intended to end the conversation, not open it up. Hence your complete failure to acknowledge detailed post and 5 linked articles backing up my position. 

 

If you'd like to read and respond to the substance of my post, then I'll be happy to engage. But something tells me your mind is made up and you have little desire to make an effort to see if what I am presenting might have some truth to it.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I don't believe your participation is in good faith in this thread. I think  your demands are intended to end the conversation, not open it up. Hence your complete failure to acknowledge detailed post and 5 linked articles backing up my position. 

 

If you'd like to read and respond to the substance of my post, then I'll be happy to engage. But something tells me your mind is made up and you have little desire to make an effort to see if what I am presenting might have some truth to it.

I read it 

But while detailed, I didn’t see your examples as laws. They’re more just business practices. And as far as federal programs goes there are many that favor people of color... so there’s that.

Edited June 27, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I read it 

But while detailed, I didn’t see your examples as laws. They’re more just business practices. And as far as federal programs goes there are many that favor people of color... so there’s that.

 

That's my point, despite laws being put on the books that make those practices illegal, they are still wide spread and are the cause of hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth disparity. Today, in 2021.

 

What federal programs are you referring to?

 

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

That's my point, despite laws being put on the books that make those practices illegal, they are still wide spread and are the cause of hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth disparity. Today, in 2021.

 

What federal programs are you referring to?

 

The entire welfare state and numerous government contracting programs established to give advantage to MBEs (minority business enterprises)

Edited June 27, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Motorin']

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The entire welfare state

 

The welfare state has given way more money to white people than black people throughout it's existence. To this day there's more White people on welfare and receiving food stamps... There's no race test to get welfare, it's based on economic need. 

 

At the same time black people were excluded from the most important policy instituted by the welfare state, federally subsidized home ownership.

 

My grandparents bought a house that was federally backed in the late 50's for 10k. We sold it when my grandma passed away 10 years ago for over 200k. 

 

Generations of black families were deprived of the ability to build equity through federally subsidized home ownership while white families that accessed federally back mortgages passed down over 1 trillion in equity after Brown vs Board of Education. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

Motorin 

We aren’t going to agree on this I can see but it’s clear you’ve put a lot of thought into this so I would be very interested to read what you believe the solution is going forward.

[T master]

18 hours ago, TH3 said:

Nah....There are ALOT of white folk here in the red white and blue who think brown people are inferior.....ALOT 

 

You are correct and those folks are ignorant and should be the fuel to prove every one of them wrong and pass that motivation to the younger generation but in a positive form .

 

My path in life has been formed by my decisions good & bad some very stupid and the school of hard knox along with some common sense has showed me to be successful in the sense that i have learned from those mistakes and passed that knowledge on to my kids .

 

The first i had ever heard the N word was when listening to Richard Prior and i grew up with a man that worked for my grand dad that was from Ala. & was black and he was part of our family and i loved him and have the best of memories of him growing up but saw first hand his so called friends take total advantage of him and they were his own race which hurt my soul and taught me a great lesson .

 

There are those out there and it doesn't matter their race they just want to take advantage of any easy direction in life and it is easier to place the blame on some one else rather than man up and do what's right and take advantage of opportunities given to all if you have the motivation & are willing to work for what you want .

 

 I have never been given anything and have had to bust my A** for every thing i own and have given that same work ethic to my kids and grand kids and have told them to respect all others .

 

With that being said i have received racism and it's not a good feeling and would never allow anyone i am parenting to be that way in hopes of changing the future if only in a small way and it starts with church (which has been removed from so much today) in them knowing that we are all created in gods image and he sees all colors in love and that he loves us all equally with all of our faults !! 🙌

 

If that kind of love is taught to all the young people i believe the world would be a lot better place and there would be a lot less racism 🙏

 

 

[Chef Jim]

Personally it's who we are as a species.  We're tribal.  We root for people that look and think like us and sometimes vilify those that don't.  Look at religion.  The number of wars and the number of people killed in our history in the name of organized thought that often preaches love is a mind boggling.  

[Wacka]

If MLK started today, he would be called an Uncle Tom.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Black owned homes are appraised on average 200k less than comparable white owned homes at the time of sale and for home equity loan purposes, while black owned homes are over assessed for the purpose of property taxation compared to white owned homes.

 

 

Is this disparity for the same home, same level of up keep in the same neighborhood with same same schools and same access to amenities and same level of crime?  
 

So in other words there are two nearly identical home across my street, on poc owned, one white owned.
 

You are saying if both put their house on the market, simultaneously the market would assign a lower value to the poc home? 

[unbillievable]

9 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Black owned homes are appraised on average 200k less than comparable white owned homes at the time of sale and for home equity loan purposes, while black owned homes are over assessed for the purpose of property taxation compared to white owned homes.

 

That's a lot of explanation in those articles to come up with racism where non exist.

 

1) They compare prices between neighborhoods, not houses next to each other, to find "racism"
in those articles. Poor neighborhoods have cheaper houses... not racist.

 

2)A lot of twisting when they should just say that white people apply for more tax discounts (available to everyone), more than black people. Also not racist. Similar to the voter ID argument.

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Is this disparity for the same home, same level of up keep in the same neighborhood with same same schools and same access to amenities and same level of crime?  NOPE, different neighborhoods. It's the wage gap lie all over again.
 

So in other words there are two nearly identical home across my street, on poc owned, one white owned.
 

You are saying if both put their house on the market, simultaneously the market would assign a lower value to the poc home? 

 

54 minutes ago, Wacka said:

If MLK started today, he would be called an Uncle Tom.

Well, he was Republican.

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

The welfare state has given way more money to white people than black people throughout it's existence. To this day there's more White people on welfare and receiving food stamps... There's no race test to get welfare, it's based on economic need.

 

 

Not when you base it on %percentage rather than totals.

 

...and there are race based tests for welfare. POCs have a LOT more programs available to them than whites. Especially now.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

The welfare state has given way more money to white people than black people throughout it's existence. To this day there's more White people on welfare and receiving food stamps... There's no race test to get welfare, it's based on economic need. 

 

Proportionality is funny, it seems to be used only conveniently. 

 

thus are you suggesting the proportion of money distributed by race favors a certain demographic? 
 

the data in this link disputes that and says poc household many times more like to receive benefits.  

 

https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8

[unbillievable]

It's a lot easier to debunk "systematic racism" than it is to find it. The only argument towards it existing is the disparity in outcomes; Calling it "racist" is lazy thinking.

 

It makes a lot more sense to blame cultural differences, than pin the disparity on active racial targeting; especially when the bias disappears when immigrants are included in the statistics.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

It's a lot easier to debunk "systematic racism" than it is to find it. The only argument towards it existing is the disparity in outcomes; Calling it "racist" is lazy thinking.

 

It makes a lot more sense to blame cultural differences, than pin the disparity on active racial targeting; especially when the bias disappears when immigrants are included in the statistics.

 

And worse, it’s probably not going to actually help fix some of the very real disparities. 
 

It’s like claiming every time a poc is pulled over it’s racist. How often can an officer even see the driver when the decide?
 

I saw something the other day that said poc get in a higher rate of traffic accidents thus infrastructure is racist. 

 

it sort of reminds me of ancient tribes that were so ignorant of the world, every time something bad happened they defaulted to gods are angry.