Eric Wood interviews Joe Staley (trained Bills rookie Spencer Brown among others)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Also here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-91-dont-lose-before-you-start-with-joe-staley/id1454848755?i=1000526283349

 

Talk about Spencer Brown starts about 38 minutes in

 

There's also some stuff early on (about 4:30 in) on gaining and losing weight as an NFL player

 

Enjoy!

[ghostwriter]

I think Spencer Brown will be a good player, but probably not a guy you’ll see in the Pro Bowl. Good enough where if Daryl Williams goes down we won’t really lose much.

[Chandler#81]

NFL Radio had him on as well -with Jim & Pat. Basically said the same things.

he must be on a book tour..

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I think Spencer Brown will be a good player, but probably not a guy you’ll see in the Pro Bowl. Good enough where if Daryl Williams goes down we won’t really lose much.

 

He might become that, but I don't think he's there yet.

 

Here's another article on this training from The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/2626842/2021/06/02/he-was-my-guinea-pig-how-joe-staley-prepared-bills-spencer-brown-for-nfl/?article_source=search&search_query=spencer brown

Quote

“He was super raw,” Staley said. “And you just see that he got away with a lot with him just being bigger than the guy that he’s been going against. As much as you want to believe that’s gonna be the way it is, it’s not. The guys at the NFL level are way too good or just as much of a freak of athlete as he is. So you’ve got to learn how to put all those physical traits that he has together. What’s really exciting and why I love working with him is that every single day he got better. And every single day he had a better understanding of what we were trying to do. And he really worked hard at trying to figure it out. It’s easy to get frustrated when it doesn’t come right away but he understands it’s a process.”

 

One of the writers covering the Bills did some scouting of how Brown stacked up during OTAs, which I've just been hunting for and can't find, but it basically confirmed Staley's comments.  He showed some good stuff, but he also showed he had a ways to go in his technique

[just1hugheser]

I really liked our Oline picks, I think they will develop nicely.  Really we need a backup LT/someone to begin to develop behind Dion(in the next year or two) and someone that will takeover the RT spot, hopefully we will end up getting steals in Ford and Lamp with Feliciano backing up the interior or taking over at center for a year or two until we get a youngster to claim the C spot.  Continual investment in the OLine should always be mandatory but is more so now with JA.

Our starting line this year will not have taken a single snap together but will all have started at one point or another over the last two years, so im hoping people step up beast up and claim spots early so they can get that gel/communication going.

[AmishRifle]

5 hours ago, just1hugheser said:

I really liked our Oline picks, I think they will develop nicely.  Really we need a backup LT/someone to begin to develop behind Dion(in the next year or two) and someone that will takeover the RT spot, hopefully we will end up getting steals in Ford and Lamp with Feliciano backing up the interior or taking over at center for a year or two until we get a youngster to claim the C spot.  Continual investment in the OLine should always be mandatory but is more so now with JA.

Our starting line this year will not have taken a single snap together but will all have started at one point or another over the last two years, so im hoping people step up beast up and claim spots early so they can get that gel/communication going.

I agree with your sentiment.

 

Who do you see on the starting O-line?

[machine gun kelly]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

NFL Radio had him on as well -with Jim & Pat. Basically said the same things.

he must be on a book tour..

Yeah Chand, he mentioned as I heard it he was increasing his media presence so was vague.  You’re right.

[Saxum]

10 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

NFL Radio had him on as well -with Jim & Pat. Basically said the same things.

he must be on a book tour..

 

I think he has a potential broadcast deal in fall and he needs to increase his name recognition and visibility (is it visibility when it is only sound?).

[John from Riverside]

I always thought this talk of Spencer replacing Williams immediately was ridiculous Williams was one of the best right tackles in free agency and we got him to stay what it does is it give Spencer Brown time to work on his game and be there at the end of Williams contract

[BigAl2526]

It was quick, but Ii thought I heard Staley say that despite Brown being raw, he thought Brown could develop quickly.  I'm assuming that is because of his physical traits and his attitude.  In a sense, he's like the offensive tackle version of Josh Allen.

[Brand J]

Still don’t understand Brown over C Creed Humphrey. That guy also tested off the charts and plays a position that could strengthen the interior if the team moves on from Morse next year. At best we’re hoping Brown pans out as a swing tackle with potential to move into a starting position a few years from now.
Humphrey has supposedly taken all the starting snaps at center and shows no signs of relinquishing the job in KC.

[NewEra]

On 6/23/2021 at 7:21 PM, Victory Formation said:

I think Spencer Brown will be a good player, but probably not a guy you’ll see in the Pro Bowl. Good enough where if Daryl Williams goes down we won’t really lose much.

Sounds like Dion Dawkins on the right side.  

[Logic]

28 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Still don’t understand Brown over C Creed Humphrey. That guy also tested off the charts and plays a position that could strengthen the interior if the team moves on from Morse next year. At best we’re hoping Brown pans out as a swing tackle with potential to move into a starting position a few years from now.
Humphrey has supposedly taken all the starting snaps at center and shows no signs of relinquishing the job in KC.

I liked Humphrey, too. My only answer to why they picked Brown instead is: depth.

 

If Morse gets hurt or they decide to move on next year, they’ve got Feliciano and Bates and Boettger to step in. The first two guys have shown that they can be pretty effective at center.

 

Meanwhile, if Dawkins or Williams goes down or if Williams can’t keep up his high level of play, the Bills would have been counting on Bobby Hart. All it takes is one injury to an OT and we would’ve been counting on BOBBY HART to keep Josh Allen upright. That’s a terrifying thought.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Logic

[AKC]

We only had 8 RB rushing TDs in 2020. If he suits up on any game days this season he may very well get some playing time in short yardage packages.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:32 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He might become that, but I don't think he's there yet.

 

Here's another article on this training from The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/2626842/2021/06/02/he-was-my-guinea-pig-how-joe-staley-prepared-bills-spencer-brown-for-nfl/?article_source=search&search_query=spencer brown

 

One of the writers covering the Bills did some scouting of how Brown stacked up during OTAs, which I've just been hunting for and can't find, but it basically confirmed Staley's comments.  He showed some good stuff, but he also showed he had a ways to go in his technique

Thanks, good read.

 

Coming out of Northern Iowa and not having a 2020 football season at all of course Brown is going to be raw.  He appears to have the  physical tools and the right work ethic.  He has seemed to really adopt the Bills having celebrated jumping on a table.  Absent injuries we dont need him to start anytime soon wo sounds like a great potential risk reward.

 

I have to thin Spencer has a very high ceiling. 

[just1hugheser]

On 6/24/2021 at 7:54 AM, AmishRifle said:

I agree with your sentiment.

 

Who do you see on the starting O-line?

 

 

I was thinking about your question and was trying to see how much conflict there was in my head about who I think will be starting and who I hope will be starting, and I'm happy to say its mostly the same.  Dion, Morse, and Williams are pretty locked in barring injury so the fierce competition will be at the guard spots with Ford, Lamp, Feliciano as the favorites and everyone else just trying to develop.  Ford and Lamp are both 2nd round #38 picks a couple years apart, but I'll give the nod to a healthy Ford, I think Feliciano sticks at the other spot but if he becomes inconsistent or a liability I could see Lamp getting a try there are as well mostly because we know Bills Coaches are willing to give guys a shot but also I get the impression that the staff knows the weakness was the 3 interior spots and are not completely comfortable with Feliciano and Morse as guys they are sure they can rely upon especially in the playoffs.(neither am i, so Lamp I think gets a shot at some point to see if he can be a gamer if he outright loses the tc competition).

 

In the end meaning starting week 1 > Dion, Feliciano, Morse, Ford, Williams

[just1hugheser]

There are other things to consider; which guard spots to put Feliciano and Ford depending on training camp and preseason they each could end up on either side.

 

-Will the Bills continue to use more zone or power schemes-the interior 3 fare better in a power scheme while the tackles in a zone scheme- it would be better for a spread offense like ours to use more zone out of shotgun but is not a deal breaker by any stretch, I believe Breida is the bridge here as his speed allows outside zone to work while Motor and Moss have the power for inside power schemed plays.

 

-What do we have in Lamp?

 

-Can Brown be the swing tackle backup or push Williams or netiher?

 

-Can Morse stay healthy and is Feliciano is primary backup or a guy like Bates or Anderson?

 

https://thebuffalofanatics.com/2021-buffalo-bills-offensive-line/

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/buffalo-bills-depth-chart/

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Still don’t understand Brown over C Creed Humphrey. That guy also tested off the charts and plays a position that could strengthen the interior if the team moves on from Morse next year. At best we’re hoping Brown pans out as a swing tackle with potential to move into a starting position a few years from now.
Humphrey has supposedly taken all the starting snaps at center and shows no signs of relinquishing the job in KC.

 

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

-Can Brown be the swing tackle backup or push Williams or netiher?

 

I, too, wanted Creed Humphrey.  But if you look at Daryl Williams contract, it's essentially a $9.75M/yr contract for 1 year (top-6 for a RT), structured as a 3 yr deal.

I think the Beane-meister's thinking is: We used two draft picks as two "shots on goal" towards replacing Williams at RT at a lower cap hit.

We can either move on from Williams next year, if either Brown or Doyle look ready to "step up" and take over at RT for a manageable $3.6M dead cap hit which essentially, is a deferral of this season's salary cap.

 

Or, we have Williams locked down for 3 years if neither of them look "prime time" ready.

 

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

There are other things to consider; which guard spots to put Feliciano and Ford depending on training camp and preseason they each could end up on either side.

 

Feliciano can play on either side and at center without missing a beat.  He's not the greatest, but he's "rock steady"

 

Ford, IMHO, they need to decide where they think he slots and leave him there.

 

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

-Will the Bills continue to use more zone or power schemes-the interior 3 fare better in a power scheme

 

I'm by no means an expert, but I think this is conflating gap run blocking with power.  And I don't think that's quite right.  I think both blocking styles can involve power, but possibly zone more than gap since it's "block whoever comes into your orbit"  But I'd rather hang up and listen while someone with more "sauce" explains.  For example, Morse is no way a power guy, but was evaluated as a very effective Gap run blocker by the Cover1 guys last season.  

 

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

-Can Morse stay healthy and is Feliciano is primary backup or a guy like Bates or Anderson?

 

I think the Bills are pretty determined to have better run blocking however they get it.  Morse job is probably safe this year bar injury, but I don't think either Feliciano or Ford are sho-ins. 

 

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

-What do we have in Lamp?

 

In addition to Lamp (who started 16 games at LG for the Bolts last year and 2 the year before) and Boettger (started 7 games for us last season) as returning vets, don't forget Jamil Douglas.  Well, everyone else does, but don't you follow the crowd.  😆 He played >50% of the OL snaps for the Titans in 6 games of 2019 and 2 games of 2020 (5 starts).    In between being a 4th round draft pick for the Dolphins in 2015 (who got cut next season), he kicked around on the Patriots***, Falcons, and Colts, which argues that he showed enough potential that teams kept keeping him around.  And the Titans had a very good run blocking OL last season. 

 

Then there's Jordan Devey, who has actually started more games in the NFL than either Douglas or Lamp (21 starts, for NWE, SFO in '15, KC, and Oak)

 

Then there's the plethera of rookie interior lineman - not only Jack Anderson, but UDFA Steven Gonzales (Penn State) and Syrus Tuitele (Fresno).

 

Beane is clearly following the mantra "throw enough at the wall and something will stick" at OL as well as DL.

 

 

 

 

 

[just1hugheser]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I, too, wanted Creed Humphrey.  But if you look at Daryl Williams contract, it's essentially a $9.75M/yr contract for 1 year (top-6 for a RT), structured as a 3 yr deal.

I think the Beane-meister's thinking is: We used two draft picks as two "shots on goal" towards replacing Williams at RT at a lower cap hit.

We can either move on from Williams next year, if either Brown or Doyle look ready to "step up" and take over at RT for a manageable $3.6M dead cap hit which essentially, is a deferral of this season's salary cap.

 

Or, we have Williams locked down for 3 years if neither of them look "prime time" ready.

 

 

Feliciano can play on either side and at center without missing a beat.  He's not the greatest, but he's "rock steady"

 

Ford, IMHO, they need to decide where they think he slots and leave him there.

 

 

I'm by no means an expert, but I think this is conflating gap run blocking with power.  And I don't think that's quite right.  I think both blocking styles can involve power, but possibly zone more than gap since it's "block whoever comes into your orbit"  But I'd rather hang up and listen while someone with more "sauce" explains.  For example, Morse is no way a power guy, but was evaluated as a very effective Gap run blocker by the Cover1 guys last season.  

 

 

I think the Bills are pretty determined to have better run blocking however they get it.  Morse job is probably safe this year bar injury, but I don't think either Feliciano or Ford are sho-ins. 

 

 

In addition to Lamp (who started 16 games at LG for the Bolts last year and 2 the year before) and Boettger (started 7 games for us last season) as returning vets, don't forget Jamil Douglas.  Well, everyone else does, but don't you follow the crowd.  😆 He played >50% of the OL snaps for the Titans in 6 games of 2019 and 2 games of 2020 (5 starts).    In between being a 4th round draft pick for the Dolphins in 2015 (who got cut next season), he kicked around on the Patriots***, Falcons, and Colts, which argues that he showed enough potential that teams kept keeping him around.  And the Titans had a very good run blocking OL last season. 

 

Then there's Jordan Devey, who has actually started more games in the NFL than either Douglas or Lamp (21 starts, for NWE, SFO in '15, KC, and Oak)

 

Then there's the plethera of rookie interior lineman - not only Jack Anderson, but UDFA Steven Gonzales (Penn State) and Syrus Tuitele (Fresno).

 

Beane is clearly following the mantra "throw enough at the wall and something will stick" at OL as well as DL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too was/is a Creed fan but thought Logic's post in repsonse pretty well covered what I think.

 

 

As for the sleepers;

 

Jamil Douglas(ja-mil doug-las)>  I didnt necessarily forget about him its just that he hasnt shown much in some 49 career games and 11 starts.

https://alchetron.com/Jamil-Douglas

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441027-jamil-douglas-nfl-draft-2015-scouting-report-grade-for-dolphins-rookie

 

Jordan Devey> see above

 

Jack Anderson(no idea)> not much info, got called soft by one, and a potential inline mauler on the inside by another.

 

Tommy Doyle(tom-my doy-le)>Same as Syrus needs to put in a ton of technique work and the Bills might not have enough roster spots.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tommy-Doyle-OL-Miami(OH)

https://walterfootball.com/draft2021OT.php

 

Spencer Brown(spence-r brow-n)>  I think he'll surprise a bit being a consistent backup his first year to contending reliable starter in years 2-3.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2021OT.php

 

Syrus Tuitele(prounouced sy-rus tu-i-tele)>Practice Squad, will have to put in hours and hours drilling footwork and technique but if he does that he could be a steal, but he does need a lot of work.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Syrus-Tuitele-OL-FresnoState (check out the right side prosepect #10)

https://walterfootball.com/draft2021OT.php

https://mwwire.com/2021/04/27/2021-nfl-draft-profile-fresno-state-ol-syrus-tuitele/

 

 

If I remember correctly Ford is more comfortable at the LG spot and Feliciano the RG spot so I thinnk if Ford wins the competition thats where he ends up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, just1hugheser said:

As for the sleepers;

 

Jamil Douglas(ja-mil doug-las)>  I didnt necessarily forget about him its just that he hasnt shown much in some 49 career games and 11 starts.

https://alchetron.com/Jamil-Douglas

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441027-jamil-douglas-nfl-draft-2015-scouting-report-grade-for-dolphins-rookie

 

Jordan Devey> see above

 

Lots of good info in your post, Thanks for all that!

 

Just going to hone in one one point - for the rookies, it's entirely appropriate to hone in on their draft reports and  college film.

 

But for a guy who's been around the league going on 7 years, my guess is it's not too illuminating.  Douglas washed out in his second year on the Dolphins, his draft team.  That's a pretty strong argument that he wasn't ready then. 

 

But when a guy manages to stick around the league on the practice squads of good teams - NE won the Superbowl in 2016, Falcons were a 10-6 playoff team in 2017, Titans were a solid team in 2018, and a top rushing team in 2019 and 2020 - it's probably a good bet that he's "shown something".

 

I'm not even sure what one means when one says "hasn't shown much".  Hasn't won himself a starting role, certainly, but he's been fighting his way into some starting time the last couple years.  In general, playing guard in the NFL seems to me a position where "no news is good news" and people have to either love OL play or love the team to do a deep dive.