Beast Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 What about players, coaches, employees of the team, etc., that have already contracted Covid that don't want to be vaccinated? The latest Cleveland Clinic study..... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-determines-people-whove-had-covid-19-dont-need-to-get-vaccinated 1 minute ago, BuffaloBob said: At least he SAYS he is. I'll believe it when I see it. Does he seem fake to you?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said: This is factually incorrect. The vaccines are not 100% effective against an infection. But they are 100% effective in preventing death. The two RNA vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are like 94-95% effective against infection, with the two shots taken. And that is nearly twice as effective as the typical flu vaccine. This was demonstrated by the initial trials and has been confirmed in the field as they continue to study people who have received the vaccine, and tracking of breakthrough infections. The Johnson and Johnson is 72% effective at preventing breakthrough infections and also 100% effective in preventing hospitalization and death, but it's advantage was a single dose and not having to store it at extremely low temps. Hi. Just a little note that the above reflect experience with the initial variants circulating. For the Delta variant currently causing >90% of infections in UK (and likely to predominate in US in a few), data suggest 79% protective against infection and 88% protective against severe disease for the mRNA vaccines. No data on J&J; AZ (similar technology but 2 doses) 67%. One dose of AZ was 30%. Still very effective at preventing severe disease and death. 1
QCity Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Beast said: Correct. And Beasley is OK with that. Yeah, right. If he got cut he would be crying on Twitter for weeks. 2
HardyBoy Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said: Any players can be cut for any reason. I'm a Beasley fan so I think that someone should hold an intervention. He's trashing his brand howling into the wind. People can believe what they want to believe but being so out spoken isn't helping anyone. It's becoming harder for him to strike a compromise with the team/league. Trashing his brand with who?
RiotAct Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said: At least he SAYS he is. I'll believe it when I see it. who will blink first?!? The suspense is killing me.
H2o Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said: And just out of curiosity, exactly what factual basis informs your belief that vaccines don't help or protect? I ask this because all of the data, both in trials and empirical data collected in the field, say exactly the opposite. Overwhelmingly the opposite. We've had every other vaccine. The ones that have been around with years of data behind them. I'm not completely "anti-vax" as people try to label. But we never get flu shots and we're not getting this. The possible heart issues, the possible blood clots, the sickness you get from it, as well as other things I have seen. We're healthy and have been through all of this. The shot is unnecessary to me/us. Not doing it. 1 2
pennstate10 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 33 minutes ago, H2o said: I actually don't believe it helps or protects, but on the contrary I don't want to take the chance of self inflicted harm that could come from it. Either be that to me or at my hands to my children. The question is posed for those who believes it does make them "safe" from the effects. I'd rather take my chances with me and my children having remained healthy through this entire ordeal. Serious question. Why dont you believe it helps or protects? Is your belief based upon scientific studies, with publicly available data? Or is your belief based upon Facebook groups?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, Beast said: What about players, coaches, employees of the team, etc., that have already contracted Covid that don't want to be vaccinated? The latest Cleveland Clinic study..... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-determines-people-whove-had-covid-19-dont-need-to-get-vaccinated This is a good study and a good article about it. A note of caution that the number of relevant people (prevously infected, unvaccinated) they followed was small: 1,359 out of 52,238 people. That's less than 3% of the study population, which is always a "caution" flag to making conclusions. The study also ended in May 2021. As it notes, Quote Scientists are still exploring whether there are benefits to vaccinating people who’ve already had the infection. They’re also examining how natural immunity compares to immunity from vaccination. [Monica] Gandhi [UCSF Infectious Disease specialist] said that she’s often asked whether previously ill people should get vaccinated. She said that the truth is, there isn’t enough data, and we don’t yet know how long natural immunity lasts. The other point is that in UK, they had a policy of "1 shot per cot" to extend vaccine supplies, but are now finding 1 shot doesn't give the desired protection against their current predominant variant (Delta) - but 2 shots do. That would be an argument for people who have been infected following Gandhi's suggestion: Quote Her solution: Just get the first dose. Even if it’s unnecessary, that single dose can act as an immune booster. Still, there is some evidence backing the idea that if J&J recipients are considered vaccinated, players and coaches who can provide evidence of a positive covid-19 PCR test should also be treated as vaccinated. At a very minimum, I think it would be reasonable for these folks to point the NFL/NFLPA medical advisors/committee at the evidence and ask why this isn't considered. 1
Motorin' Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, Capco said: Cole illustrated the problem perfectly with this tweet: Opioid addiction is no joke. If Cole's outburst has anything to do with emotional swings from substances, I hope he gets help. I know from personal experience how hard they are to kick after serious injury, and how bad the emotional swings are. I can't help but wonder...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 5 hours ago, SCBills said: I’ve certainly let myself get condescending at times in this thread, and will try to do better in defense of my position (and therefore Cole’s) - but it’s pretty clear that one side views themselves as morally superior on this issue and thus any pushback, at all, is worthy of personal insults. I understand that perception differs, but I see all the posts we hide. I think it's pretty clear the "moral superiority" viewpoint rolls both ways, as do the insults. 1
Doc Brown Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 I wonder if the league reached out to Beane after Beasley's twitter rant. They don't want another Kaepernick type situation which could happen if the Bills cut him and nobody else signs him. He'd have a case for collusion and the NFL doesn't want to shell out more money on a settlement like they did in Kaepernick's case.
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Motorin' said: Opioid addiction is no joke. If Cole's outburst has anything to do with emotional swings from substances, I hope he gets help. I know from personal experience how hard they are to kick after serious injury, and how bad the emotional swings are. I can't help but wonder... Where did you get opioid addiction from? Fwiw, the reason why I posted that was to exemplify the sad state of affairs with regards to some people refusing to trust the information, experts, and institutions that allow society to exist in the first place.
H2o Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, pennstate10 said: Serious question. Why dont you believe it helps or protects? Is your belief based upon scientific studies, with publicly available data? Or is your belief based upon Facebook groups? I have seen people I know who have gotten the vax get sick as a dog, some for weeks on end. I've seen the news reports about perfectly healthy kids ending up with heart issues or blood clots after getting the shot. I have also been in close contact with people who've had Covid, while they've had it, and didn't get it. Most of the people I've known to get it have recovered from it. There have only been a couple who passed and they also had other serious health issues. I also see where people getting vaccinated are still getting Covid. Three people I work with got the vax and still got Covid. Since that's the case I don't see where we need it at all, having been healthy through this whole situation, so I won't take that chance.
ChasBB Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Capco said: Where did you get opioid addiction from? Fwiw, the reason why I posted that was to exemplify the sad state of affairs with regards to some people refusing to trust the information, experts, and institutions that allow society to exist in the first place. That could be because the information may not be trustworthy or is at minimum at least challengeable. Sometimes, our institutions fail us - wouldn't be the 1st time and won't be the last. As citizens in a free society, we have the right (really, a duty) to demand proof and to challenge claims. Do your own research.
stevewin Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: 57 pages????? Really????? Must be a bunch of independently wealthy MoFos on this here site, got nothin better to do😜 I read this thread during high level meetings 1 3
QCity Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, H2o said: I have seen people I know who have gotten the vax get sick as a dog, some for weeks on end. I've seen the news reports about perfectly healthy kids ending up with heart issues or blood clots after getting the shot. I have also been in close contact with people who've had Covid, while they've had it, and didn't get it. Most of the people I've known to get it have recovered from it. There have only been a couple who passed and they also had other serious health issues. I also see where people getting vaccinated are still getting Covid. Three people I work with got the vax and still got Covid. Since that's the case I don't see where we need it at all, having been healthy through this whole situation, so I won't take that chance. It would probably been better if the vaccine was never developed, huh?
Motorin' Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Capco said: Where did you get opioid addiction from? Fwiw, the reason why I posted that was to exemplify the sad state of affairs with regards to some people refusing to trust the information, experts, and institutions that allow society to exist in the first place. That is a valid point you bring up. It just occurred to me that the guy played on a broken leg, and probably took lots of pain meds to get through. Then he shows up to mini-camp touting a broken tooth and takes to Twitter with emotionally charged posts. I'm not trying to attack the content of his comments by suggesting he's high. Rather I'm expressing concern for the guy's well being. I hope he's not addicted to anything, but if that has anything to do with his behavior I hope he gets help... Edited June 19, 2021 by Motorin' 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, H2o said: We've had every other vaccine. The ones that have been around with years of data behind them. I'm not completely "anti-vax" as people try to label. But we never get flu shots and we're not getting this. The possible heart issues, the possible blood clots, the sickness you get from it, as well as other things I have seen. We're healthy and have been through all of this. The shot is unnecessary to me/us. Not doing it. Vaccines with years of data behind them were once new vaccines. Many of them wouldn't have had the desired public health impact, if the relevant populations hadn't been willing to take them as soon as they were available - not years later. How many years do you need, when millions of doses have been administered? Question: what are the heart issue and blood clot risks from Covid-19 disease? How do they compare to those risks from the vaccine? Here's a study from a group at Oxford showing that the risks of blood clots is significantly higher from covid-19 disease than from the vaccine, including in people who were not ill enough to be hospitalized and 30% under 30 years old: https://osf.io/a9jdq/ Here's a recent JAMA study of college athletes (young healthy studs) in which 2.3% (2,300 per 100,000) showed evidence of cardiomyopathies on MRI. Symptom-based evidence was 0.3% (300 per 100,000). The CDC is currently concerned about reports of 475 vaccine recipients under 30 with possible myocarditis or pericarditis. I can't find the number of vaccine recipients under 30, but per CDC there are 3.4M vaccine recipients under age 18. Therefore the upper bound of people under 18 with possible vaccine-related cardiomyopathies is 14 per 100,000. This would be based on symptoms, so the comparator number would be 300 per 100,000 or roughly 21x more from disease. Your decision, obviously, but if it's to be considered a rational and logical one, it has to factor in the risks on both sides, not show 'recency bias' by considering vaccine risks that have been widely talked about recently, while disease risks to healthy <30s have gotten far less Airplay. Current data are saying that even with the risk of vaccine side effects, the risk to young healthy people from the disease is objectively greater. 1 10 2
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, ChasBB said: Do your own research. I've just had an epiphany. People today wouldn't be so quick to condemn the expertise of others with decades of experience in their fields if they actually had to go to the library and check out a book. Easy access to information via the internet is a double-edged sword.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: Never addressed the efficacy of social media. But many a celebrity sure seem to use it. They sure do. I'm just unclear on when and where it has proven itself as a positive strategy to achieve change. 1
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