plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-receiver-cole-beasley-says-hes-spoken-with-nflpa-regarding-new-covid-19-protocols/article_1b37a5a0-cfd2-11eb-aca8-8fc42a64e7ad.amp.html "everybody is so all in on science now more than I have ever seen. What happen (sic) to God's will?" A follower pointed out that vaccinations are a choice, but asked if Beasley would let a doctor repair an injury were he to get hurt. For example, the receiver underwent core-muscle surgery in 2019. "Depends on the injury," Beasley responded. "When I get sick, I naturally get better. If I don't, then it was my time. Nobody is gonna be here forever." Jesus... I'm sorry I started reading some of what he’s been saying. hmm, a surgery that is proven to work..vs a an mRNA vaccine that has never been used in any situation...yep...good comparison. I mean WTH, thalidomide was a good choice too! https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation "Now, drug approval can take between eight and twelve years, involving animal testing and tightly regulated human clinical trials" Edited June 19, 2021 by plenzmd1 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: so do tell...what is the difference? I am a pro vaxer, always have been . Seems to me reasonable people can have differing opinions on things the FDA does, and van have differing opinions on what the settled " science" infers. See the lab leak theory , and the Alzheimer drug controversy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/17/fda-aducanumab-alzheimers-drug-approval-erodes-confidence/ But damn, bury Cole , and put away any questions of the efficacy and honesty of our FDA... EUA for these vaccines: Full preclinical safety studies. Full clinical trial data - 3 phases of clinical trials including a 30,000 or 45,000 person phase III trial. Detailed protocols to be followed in the trials, and specific data collected, piles of reports in specific formats to make sure everything was there easy to find. Identity, characterization, stability, and impurity tests for the vaccine developed and validated to prove they're repeatable and do what they say they do. All the companies involved got it done by 1) not fiddling much with the vaccine or its formulation to try to make good great 2) throwing tons of manpower at the problem. What wasn't there for the EUA was duration of clinical followup data (usually 6 months), duration of stability studies (usually 6 months to 2 years - a non issue when the vaccine is used within a short time of manufacture), and some manufacturing consistency data. Very few drug candidates have trouble with the manufacturing consistency data, those issues get sorted much earlier. If the objection to the vaccine is it's "only approved for emergency use", then it's relevant to have some understanding of just how close to a full approval package it was. If the objection is "I question the efficacy and honesty of the FDA" then "it's only approved for emergency use" is a Stalking Horse - a seemingly reasonable point that's really cover for a deeper, more conspiracy-minded argument. You know this is a football forum, and issues will be discussed in TSW in the tight context of football relevance. Alzheimer's drug approval and Covid origin debates may be discussed elsewhere, along with general discussion of the efficacy and honesty of our FDA. 1 3 1
KennyDavisEyes Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Taking one against the team. If you can't play because of a political decision to break league rules, that's not acting in the team's best interests. It's prioritizing your own. He won’t miss a game.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: hmm, a surgery that is proven to work..vs a an mRNA vaccine that has never been used in any situation...yep...good comparison. I mean WTH, thalidomide was a good choice too! https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation That'll do. (And yes, mRNA vaccines have been used in other situations) 3 1
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, HalftimeAdjustment said: And the first polio vaccine sometimes gave you polio. All vaccines have that risk. But people took that very, very minor risk willingly because they knew what it meant for the whole country. The benefits to the whole far outweighed the risk to the individual, and they didn't have second thoughts about doing something like that. It was automatic. Something changed in the last 40 years. People somehow became more selfish and less trusting, more tribal and less accepting. 2 2
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: That'll do. (And yes, mRNA vaccines have been used in other situations) please do expound?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, KennyDavisEyes said: He won’t miss a game. If he's a close contact of someone who tests positive, or he himself tests positive, it's not his choice.
HalftimeAdjustment Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Capco said: All vaccines have that risk. But people took that very, very minor risk willingly because they knew what it meant for the whole country. The benefits to the whole far outweighed the risk to the individual, and they didn't have second thoughts about doing something like that. It was automatic. Something changed in the last 40 years. People somehow became more selfish and less trusting, more tribal and less accepting. Actually many newer vaccines don't really have that risk due to not using live or weakened virus of the targeted illness.
Pabstblueribbon Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 I'm with Cole on this. The guy has been an absolute warrior and will likely live out the rest of his days in chronic pain as a consequence of making the conscious decision to play a violent game. To me this is no different. At this point the vaccine is so prevalent that anyone who's at risk and doesn't have it has made the decision and is willing to risk the consequences. At this stage, the whole "You're not allowed to leave your room" thing is insanity. 1
Hebert19 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Capco said: I genuinely don't understand sentiments like this. When you were a child, did your parents make a fuss about getting your vaccinations? Was it such a big matter of "choice" then? Do you have children of your own? If so, have you gotten them vaccinated? The only people being entitled and self-important are those who chose not to get vaccinated, since getting vaccinated isn't just for themselves but also for the sake of the community. Can you imagine the Greatest Generation putting up a big stink about getting the polio vaccine for their kids in the 50s? I just can't wrap my mind around it. I'm vaccinated and so are my kids. I get the flu shot every year. But for those that don't...that's their choice. Free country unless you disagree with someone's choice I guess. 2
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: EUA for these vaccines: Full preclinical safety studies. Full clinical trial data - 3 phases of clinical trials including a 30,000 or 45,000 person phase III trial. Detailed protocols to be followed in the trials, and specific data collected, piles of reports in specific formats to make sure everything was there easy to find. Identity, characterization, stability, and impurity tests for the vaccine developed and validated to prove they're repeatable and do what they say they do. All the companies involved got it done by 1) not fiddling much with the vaccine or its formulation to try to make good great 2) throwing tons of manpower at the problem. What wasn't there for the EUA was duration of clinical followup data (usually 6 months), duration of stability studies (usually 6 months to 2 years - a non issue when the vaccine is used within a short time of manufacture), and some manufacturing consistency data. Very few drug candidates have trouble with the manufacturing consistency data, those issues get sorted much earlier. If the objection to the vaccine is it's "only approved for emergency use", then it's relevant to have some understanding of just how close to a full approval package it was. If the objection is "I question the efficacy and honesty of the FDA" then "it's only approved for emergency use" is a Stalking Horse - a seemingly reasonable point that's really cover for a deeper, more conspiracy-minded argument. You know this is a football forum, and issues will be discussed in TSW in the tight context of football relevance. Alzheimer's drug approval and Covid origin debates may be discussed elsewhere, along with general discussion of the efficacy and honesty of our FDA. if we want to discuss why Cole may have objections to the vaccine, these discussion points are relevant. if the point of the thread is strictly " Cole Beasley is an Idiot" and we accept that as fact, you are correct, his reasons for vaccine hesitancy are irrelevant. So i will gladly leave the discussion if the answer is " Cole Beasley is an Idiot"
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, plenzmd1 said: please do expound? It's beyond the scope, but I won't say "google". https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=mRNA vaccines have been studied,into an mRNA vaccine. mRNA Vaccines Are New, But Not Unknown Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. Interest has grown in these vaccines because they can be developed in a laboratory using readily available materials. This means the process can be standardized and scaled up, making vaccine development faster than traditional methods of making vaccines. mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). As soon as the necessary information about the virus that causes COVID-19 was available, scientists began designing the mRNA instructions for cells to build the unique spike protein into an mRNA vaccine. Future mRNA vaccine technology may allow for one vaccine to provide protection for multiple diseases, thus decreasing the number of shots needed for protection against common vaccine-preventable diseases. Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells. https://biontech.de/science/pipeline 8 or 9 drug candidates in clinical trials for various cancers. 2 3 1
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said: Actually many newer vaccines don't really have that risk due to not using live or weakened virus of the targeted illness. Like the Pfizer and Moderna RNA vaccines? Edited June 19, 2021 by Capco 1
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's beyond the scope, but I won't say "google". https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=mRNA vaccines have been studied,into an mRNA vaccine. mRNA Vaccines Are New, But Not Unknown Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. Interest has grown in these vaccines because they can be developed in a laboratory using readily available materials. This means the process can be standardized and scaled up, making vaccine development faster than traditional methods of making vaccines. mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). As soon as the necessary information about the virus that causes COVID-19 was available, scientists began designing the mRNA instructions for cells to build the unique spike protein into an mRNA vaccine. Future mRNA vaccine technology may allow for one vaccine to provide protection for multiple diseases, thus decreasing the number of shots needed for protection against common vaccine-preventable diseases. Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells. https://biontech.de/science/pipeline 8 or 9 drug candidates in clinical trials for various cancers. so..if i may parapharse...never been approved for human use before? 1
Figster Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Capco said: All vaccines have that risk. But people took that very, very minor risk willingly because they knew what it meant for the whole country. The benefits to the whole far outweighed the risk to the individual, and they didn't have second thoughts about doing something like that. It was automatic. Something changed in the last 40 years. People somehow became more selfish and less trusting, more tribal and less accepting. Or less like a herd of sheep perhaps? I'm just saying... 1 2
Bferra13 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Hebert19 said: I'm vaccinated and so are my kids. I get the flu shot every year. But for those that don't...that's their choice. Free country unless you disagree with someone's choice I guess. Agreed. You laid it out well. Im not anti vax. But I was forcibly shot up with every vax under the sun while I was in the Marines. 6 doses of anthrax vax and I see that there's a lot of va claims for long term effects from that. I was forced once. This time I'll pass on something I dont feel is a big risk to myself 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: I'm vaccinated and so are my kids. I get the flu shot every year. But for those that don't...that's their choice. Free country unless you disagree with someone's choice I guess. Except that it's not their choice, if their kids go to daycare or most schools, unless they apply for religious or medical exemption. https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.html 2
Mike in Horseheads Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Except that it's not their choice, if their kids go to daycare or most schools, unless they apply for religious or medical exemption. https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.html So hard for some to understand! 1
GoBills808 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Figster said: Or less like a herd of sheep perhaps? I'm just saying... Pretty brave saying that behind your keyboard. 1
Hebert19 Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Bferra13 said: Agreed. You laid it out well. Im not anti vax. But I was forcibly shot up with every vax under the sun while I was in the Marines. 6 doses of anthrax vax and I see that there's a lot of va claims for long term effects from that. I was forced once. This time I'll pass on something I dont feel is a big risk to myself Well put and thanks for the service. And what's the risk. As shooter mcgavin said...you know what would really draw a crowd...a golfer with an arm growing out of his ass. That may be all of us who were vaccinated in 10 years...ha. you have a choice and I can't say yours was wrong at all. 1
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