BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Limeaid said: A good deal of the money will come from county via fees and taxes. Buffalo has not been contributing to stadium. What makes you think they will pick up costs now? We have politicians in the DC saying same thing - and they expect suburb dwellers to pay this when they are complaining about cross suburb community transportation. Some of those universities studies are paid for by those who believe that - that is why they provide funding. It is not cut and dry. Macroeconomics is a very fuzzy math system. Same systems declare inflation is low while the opposite is occurring. 1) Tax payers in Erie County (including those in the City of Buffalo) and the state (meaning, ever ny state tax payer) will foot the public portion of the bill. May as well use that money that will have the BIGGEST impact on the region. 2) I've said it before - we have to tap into the New York Power Authority - the ginormous cash cow that sends all of its money to Albany. The revenue generated from OUR natural resource in OUR own backyard should go to investments in OUR region. Edited August 5, 2021 by BillStime
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Limeaid said: A good deal of the money will come from county via fees and taxes. Buffalo has not been contributing to stadium. What makes you think they will pick up costs now? We have politicians in the DC saying same thing - and they expect suburb dwellers to pay this when they are complaining about cross suburb community transportation. Some of those universities studies are paid for by those who believe that - that is why they provide funding. It is not cut and dry. Macroeconomics is a very fuzzy math system. Same systems declare inflation is low while the opposite is occurring. Some of these studies were paid for by people that wanted to prove that they have a good economic impact And they couldn't prove it.. the economic impact NEVER outweighs the cost of the stadium We're here to watch a football game.. that's what it should be about at the end of the day 8 minutes ago, BillStime said: You have to take a holistic perspective of the opportunity... very few benefit from having the stadium in OP. But if you build it in the city - improve transportation infrastructure and make Buffalo the hub - a LOT of people benefit. The city doesn't have money... There's been roads that have been needed to be paved for 15 years Unfortunately there's going to be no infrastructure improvement, transportation improvement, or anything like it And downtown Buffalo is absolutely gorgeous. I have no complaints with downtown Buffalo... Places like the lower East side need work.. and a bills stadium downtown is not helping them Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: We're here to watch a football game.. that's what it should be about at the end of the day Then why does it matter if it ends up in the City? 1
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: There is some but let's say you are right. It's more about the "Downtown Buffalo Experience" is shows to the rest of the country. OP does not do anything like that. Businessmen and women experience downtown Buffalo coming to the city for away games is a potential showcase for the city. I do challenge some Buffalonians to Google map the South Park/Louisiana/Ohio St triangle. Zoom in closely at it. Tell me a wasteland like that wouldn't be improved with a shiny new stadium? A shiny new stadium in a part of the town like that makes no sense It literally would stick out like a sore thumb That's almost like right in the first ward.. they're not building a football stadium there
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Some of these studies were paid for by people that wanted to prove that they have a good economic impact And they couldn't prove it.. the economic impact NEVER outweighs the cost of the stadium We're here to watch a football game.. that's what it should be about at the end of the day I agree with a lot you have to say BUT the NFL is not just interested in WE (Buffalo fans). The whole clubhouse and suites is for wealthy fans not from Buffalo too. Having them get a hotel room in Cheektowaga by the airport and going to OP doesn't showcase what Buffalo is doing today. Every year (sometimes more) I come back to Buffalo I am impressed with the downtown improvements. I got a lot of friends who travel to Buffalo often for business. They are impressed with what they see. Sometimes I think that full time residents don't see what others do. IMHO.
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: Then why does it matter if it ends up in the City? I'm not going to cry if it's built down.. I'm just giving my opinion based on facts that I know The Buffalo Bills fan base, is a passionate, football educated, hardcore , Blue collar fan base... This goes back to the rock pile... Where they used to bring full kegs into the stadium It's always been a SEC atmosphere, and a gritty Blue collar fan base To me.. all of that screams the exact opposite, of a billion dollar domed Palace in downtown Buffalo If you built a perfect stadium for the people of Buffalo... Based on their characteristics I would say open air , and room for tailgating is a must... We have people who tailgate for two or three days before games... You can't take that away, because that is Buffalo culture
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: A shiny new stadium in a part of the town like that makes no sense It literally would stick out like a sore thumb That's almost like right in the first ward.. they're not building a football stadium there You taxpayers will have to determine all of that. Sorry to say but living away from Buffalo in 3 other cities for that last 40 years I see things differently. The First Ward is prime playground land and maybe that's more important than a few 125 year old row houses and an antiquated urban housing project. It's a question locals have to debate.
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I agree with a lot you have to say BUT the NFL is not just interested in WE (Buffalo fans). The whole clubhouse and suites is for wealthy fans not from Buffalo too. Having them get a hotel room in Cheektowaga by the airport and going to OP doesn't showcase what Buffalo is doing today. Every year (sometimes more) I come back to Buffalo I am impressed with the downtown improvements. I got a lot of friends who travel to Buffalo often for business. They are impressed with what they see. Sometimes I think that full time residents don't see what others do. IMHO. The grand thing about Buffalo unlike a lot of American cities, is that the suburbs are extremely accessible If you're coming to Buffalo for a few days to watch a game and you're staying in cheektowaga.. there's literally no reason why you can't go 6 minutes into the city and explore Nobody says you have to stay in the suburbs or orchard Park.. the city's extremely accessible.. you can get from downtown Buffalo to every single suburb within 20 minutes . And yes Buffalo is a beautiful city Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 1 1
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I'm not going to cry if it's built down.. I'm just giving my opinion based on facts that I know The Buffalo Bills fan base, is a passionate, football educated, hardcore , Blue collar fan base... This goes back to the rock pile... Where they used to bring full kegs into the stadium It's always been a SEC atmosphere, and a gritty Blue collar fan base To me.. all of that screams the exact opposite, of a billion dollar domed Palace in downtown Buffalo If you built a perfect stadium for the people of Buffalo... Based on their characteristics I would say open air , and room for tailgating is a must... We have people who tailgate for two or three days before games... You can't take that away, because that is Buffalo culture I wouldn't quantify Pittsburgh as being any different... they don't have a palace... they have a blue collar fan base... and their stadium is in the city. 4
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: The grand thing about Buffalo unlike a lot of American cities, is that the suburbs are extremely accessible If you're coming to Buffalo for a few days to watch a game and you're staying in cheektowaga.. there's literally no reason why you can't go 6 minutes into the city and explore Nobody says you have to stay in the suburbs or orchard Park.. the city's extremely accessible.. you can get from downtown Buffalo to every single suburb within 20 minutes . And yes Buffalo is a beautiful city Yes it is beautiful and I have plane tickets to come back in September and was just back in May. I have traveled with the Colorado Buffalo Bills Booster Club to away games in a number of cities. One of the prime things we did when deciding where to go was having an experience downtown and attending the game without having to rent a car. It saved so much money better spent on partying! 2
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BillStime said: I wouldn't quantify Pittsburgh as being any different... they don't have a palace... they have a blue collar fan base... and their stadium is in the city. Just because two cities are rust belt Blue collar cities doesn't mean they're identical Of course buffalo and Pittsburgh are not the same The entire existence of the Buffalo Bills fan base has been built around world class tailgates.. this goes back to 1960.. Pittsburgh is not a sec atmosphere... Buffalo is Pittsburgh didn't use to bring kegs into the stands.. Buffalo did.. The Buffalo Bills and pregame partying have gone on since the existence.. and it has nothing to do with drunken debauchery either... It has to do with family ties, and generations of people sharing their love for the bills And you need the space to share that love.. this is not some 2000 era drought thing that sprouted up... This goes back to our existence 10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Yes it is beautiful and I have plane tickets to come back in September and was just back in May. I have traveled with the Colorado Buffalo Bills Booster Club to away games in a number of cities. One of the prime things we did when deciding where to go was having an experience downtown and attending the game without having to rent a car. It saved so much money better spent on partying! But Buffalonians party different than the rest of the NFL world .. Our tailgates and antics go back to our existence.. we will never become bar crawlers before games.. it's about family and food and love and the bills... Tradition If it went downtown and they stopped tailgating.. people would drink themselves into Oblivion before the game for free at their house or crush a 6 pack in the parking lot.. they wouldn't be bar hopping around the city The Bills game day experience is around family, friends, loved ones, food and fun... And tailgating is not expensive compared to bar hopping .. and buffalo tailgates know how to cook You can get a 12 pack for the cost of one drink downtown Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 1 1
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: But Buffalonians party different than the rest of the NFL world .. Our tailgates and antics go back to our existence.. we will never become bar crawlers before games.. it's about family and food and love and the bills... Tradition If it went downtown and they stopped tailgating.. people would drink themselves into Oblivion before the game for free at their house or crush a 6 pack in the parking lot.. they wouldn't be bar hopping around the city The Bills game day experience is around family, friends, loved ones, food and fun... And tailgating is not expensive compared to bar hopping .. and buffalo tailgates know how to cook You can get a 12 pack for the cost of one drink downtown You don't need to tell me all that I experienced it too. I was going to games in the rockpile. I keep saying the residents of Erie County will have to decide what they want. BUT having a cheap ticket and buying a 12 pack is exactly what the other owners do not want. Tailgating is still part of the NFL experience in most NFL cities but it's not to the extent of OP. Good Luck with the new stadium and I hope it works out for the majority of residents of Erie County and surrounding areas! Go Bills! 1
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: You don't need to tell me all that I experienced it too. I was going to games in the rockpile. I keep saying the residents of Erie County will have to decide what they want. BUT having a cheap ticket and buying a 12 pack is exactly what the other owners do not want. Tailgating is still part of the NFL experience in most NFL cities but it's not to the extent of OP. Good Luck with the new stadium and I hope it works out for the majority of residents of Erie County and surrounding areas! Go Bills! At the end of the day it doesn't matter what other owners want Erie county and New York state is going to pay for the most of the bill, so they're going to put it where they want wherever that is Time to build, cost, land, everything just seems quicker and cheaper in orchard Park If it goes downtown.. I'll be the first one posting here how it's a great day to be a Bills fan because the bills are the only thing that matter Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 1
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, BillStime said: I wouldn't quantify Pittsburgh as being any different... they don't have a palace... they have a blue collar fan base... and their stadium is in the city. https://datausa.io/profile/geo/buffalo-ny/?compare=pittsburgh-pa The difference between city of Pittsburgh and residents outside of city are not very different. Been there many times. The 5 largest ethnic groups in Pittsburgh, PA are White (Non-Hispanic) (63.7%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (23.5%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (5.66%), Two+ (Non-Hispanic) (2.92%), White (Hispanic) (2.49%). The 5 largest ethnic groups in Buffalo, NY are White (Non-Hispanic) (40.7%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (35.5%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (6.97%), Other (Hispanic) (6.83%), and White (Hispanic) (4.23%). Other data: population of 255k people (114,902 and trending down) median age of 32.7 median household income of $40,843. The difference between city of Buffalo and residents outside of city in Erie County are very different. White (Non-Hispanic) (74.9%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (13.1%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (3.81%), White (Hispanic) (2.34%), Other (Hispanic) (2.31%). Other data: population of 919k people (459,590 employed and trending up) a median age of 40.3 a median household income of $60,652. Erie County executive is not going to contribute to a new stadium in city of Buffalo. They may need to eat cost of clean up of old stadium. Buffalo is not going to pay their share of stadium; new mayor will guarantee that. If Pegulas wanted to pay for their stadium themselves they could put it basically anywhere they wanted asking just for infrastructure costs. If there are enough businesses in Buffalo that they wanted to support stadium there they could help support it but not have economic base. The suburbs will not want to pay for a stadium downtown. The cost of the stadium will be paid for by NYS, Erie Country, Taxes/Fees and Pegulas with possible loan from NFL’s stadium finance program with NONE from Buffalo.
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Limeaid said: https://datausa.io/profile/geo/buffalo-ny/?compare=pittsburgh-pa The difference between city of Pittsburgh and residents outside of city are not very different. Been there many times. The 5 largest ethnic groups in Pittsburgh, PA are White (Non-Hispanic) (63.7%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (23.5%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (5.66%), Two+ (Non-Hispanic) (2.92%), White (Hispanic) (2.49%). The 5 largest ethnic groups in Buffalo, NY are White (Non-Hispanic) (40.7%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (35.5%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (6.97%), Other (Hispanic) (6.83%), and White (Hispanic) (4.23%). Other data: population of 255k people (114,902 and trending down) median age of 32.7 median household income of $40,843. The difference between city of Buffalo and residents outside of city in Erie County are very different. White (Non-Hispanic) (74.9%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (13.1%), Asian (Non-Hispanic) (3.81%), White (Hispanic) (2.34%), Other (Hispanic) (2.31%). Other data: population of 919k people (459,590 employed and trending up) a median age of 40.3 a median household income of $60,652. Erie County executive is not going to contribute to a new stadium in city of Buffalo. They may need to eat cost of clean up of old stadium. Buffalo is not going to pay their share of stadium; new mayor will guarantee that. If Pegulas wanted to pay for their stadium themselves they could put it basically anywhere they wanted asking just for infrastructure costs. If there are enough businesses in Buffalo that they wanted to support stadium there they could help support it but not have economic base. The suburbs will not want to pay for a stadium downtown. The cost of the stadium will be paid for by NYS, Erie Country, Taxes/Fees and Pegulas with possible loan from NFL’s stadium finance program with NONE from Buffalo. Never said the city would donate a dime
JohnNord Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) I’ve been of the mind that the Pegula’s aren’t going to sell the team and I feel that the ridiculous public funding was an attempt to aim high at the start of negotiations - though one that was somewhat tone deaf. In the Tim Graham show linked below, Timmy and Matt Fairburn share some pros and cons about whether Terry and Kim would actually move the team. Why them might move the team - Terry is best friends with Stan The Man Kroenke who essentially gave the middle finger to St. Louis and moved the team after they bent over backward for him. If he’s taking direction from Stan, it might not bode well. - The price of oil has gone down and the Pegulas are not as valuable as they once were years ago. - The poor handling of the Sabres and downsizing has fostered some ill will toward PSE and Buffalo. Kim and the children are very aware of the negative perception. If they are on the fence could this be a deciding factor. - MONEY. PSE can make a lot more money relocating to a bigger market. Greedy NFL owners and perhaps the league itself would welcome one of the smallest market teams in the NFL moving to a larger one Why them might NOT move the team - The Pegulas still have a substantial investment in the Sabres and downtown Buffalo. It probably wouldn’t make sense to get rid of the Bills with the other properties. - Terry and Kim have relished the role of “savior” of the Bills fans and have made numerous commitments to keeping the team in Buffalo. It doesn’t seem like they have the interest of the stomach to be the villain. - New York State and Erie County seems to understand the value that the Bills bring to the area. This could influence their openness to providing more public funding than they would have in the past. - The Bills have disputed the $1.1 million dollar figure which was reported by BN. Overall an interesting discussion. Fairburn also shares why Austin has become the new “boogeyman” and the reasons why the Bills need a new stadium in OP Edited August 6, 2021 by JohnNord 1
scuba guy Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 Stop digging a hole that does not need to be dug. 2
JohnNord Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, scuba guy said: Stop digging a hole that does not need to be dug. I’m not digging any hole….just reporting the comments from 2 journalists who are plugged in. As I said, I don’t see them selling
scuba guy Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 The hole Austin thing was a joke. And the reporters are just digging for hits or the junk that they report. 1
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