EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

another one:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/austin-emerges-as-possible-relocation-spot-for-bills-amid-new-orchard-park-stadium-negotiations-per-report/

News media is running with smaller staffs and no real reporting. They will literally run any story you feed them. Legends, which is owned by Jerry Jones, is the marketing firm the Pegulas hired. I'm sure this Austin BS came from them. 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

There are new stadiums in Minnesota, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas just to name a few and NONE of those teams ‘earned’ them by winning a Super Bowl. With all due respect, your criteria is ridiculous. 

Of course a SB is ridiculous criteria, but so is the Austin threat. 

Debate downtown, OP, Rochester, Clarence, parking garages, no tailgating or open lots. But once the threat of moving starts...frig Terry. 

I lived through all the Ralph, "I love Buffalo but I am leaving if you don't kiss my ring, ". I refuse to be pawn in the press between the pols and Terry. 

Of course the pols will spend the money, it is not theirs and Joe just created a trillion to draw from. Of course Terry does not want to move. Of course I do not want them to move. 

But I will not be used by them, either one of them. So Terry, just win a SB and keep the rest of the crap at the bargaining table.

[Saxum]

29 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So Ralph polluted even more! Raped the earth more:

😆

😏

 

You are obviously unpatriotic!   🎌

The interstate road system was supported by Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower to protect our country. 

Can you see missiles being transported on barges?

😶

 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

No, that math was just taking the $1.5B ask and dividing it by the 20M residents equally in the state. The bad math is if you divide the ask by the 900k residents in Erie County. That comes to about $1700 per person. 

$1.5B ÷ 20MM people ÷ 30 years = $2.50 a year 

[Saxum]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

News media is running with smaller staffs and no real reporting. They will literally run any story you feed them. Legends, which is owned by Jerry Jones, is the marketing firm the Pegulas hired. I'm sure this Austin BS came from them. 

 

And firm which should be replaced.   Jerry Jones' firm is causing bad publicity for team and is pushing an agenda closer to what Jerry Jones has wanted for stadium.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I'm annoyed about any veiled threat to move the team, even though it seems clear as day that it is simply a leverage play, but for the life of me I do not understand why so many of you are upset about them asking for public financing.

 

We get it... he's rich...  We wouldn't have a team in Buffalo if Terry & Kim weren't loaded.  

 

It's a negotiation, but y'all are going to have to fund, at least, some of the stadium... I mean, you do know that, correct?

 

I don't live in Buffalo but I would gladly have some of my taxes go to a stadium, even if our owner was Scrooge McDuck.   Like it or not, y'all pay taxes that enrich a lot of wealthy people that don't provide a football team to WNY.  Who cares if you help line the pockets of someone who does.  

 

This anti-rich sentiment is tiring.  

 

If it was more profitable - or is more profitable sometime in the future - for the Pegulas to move the team out of Buffalo, they would have done it.  To view their purchase of the team as altruistic is horribly naive.  Buying an NFL franchise is q very sound investment and once the new TV deal is made, the owners will be printing money.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

You are obviously unpatriotic!   🎌

The interstate road system was supported by Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower to protect our country. 

Can you see missiles being transported on barges?

😶

 

Actually yes. It's why one of  reasons why the canals are still federally funded.   Unless you want to close roads to traffic... The horizontal controlling width is no narrower than 110'... Many navy projects come through manufactured that can't fit on roads with out closing the road down.  I'd tell you what they are, but loose lips sink ships. 😉😜  Bridges, overpasses on roads are also too low vertical controlling height, air draft on water much higher. 

 

But I digress off topic... 😉

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

I'm going to wait a while to see how this develops before I potentially go absolutely nuclear on the Pegulas.  However to all of those vilifying Jerry Jones (and don't get me wrong, he sucks a LOT), I will remind you how much of his own money he paid for his new stadium.

 

Not as much as you think. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Stadium#Timeline

Though some of it is considered loans. The real genius is AT&T stadium hosts massive events year round. It pays for itself. 

 

Ironically AT&T stadium cost $1.15B in 2009. The Pegulas want the same amount to build an open air stadium. A billion ain't what it used to be.

 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

If it was more profitable - or is more profitable sometime in the future - for the Pegulas to move the team out of Buffalo, they would have done it.  To view their purchase of the team as altruistic is horribly naive.  Buying an NFL franchise is q very sound investment and once the new TV deal is made, the owners will be printing money.

 

I don't care if their motives were 100% sinister. Fact remains, we have our team in WNY because of them. 

 

Y'all pay taxes everyday that help line the pockets of all sorts of wealthy politicians and corporate execs.  The only difference with the Pegula's is that this isn't "out of sight, out of mind".  

 

The only naivety I see here is people thinking it makes a bit of difference to you if the Pegula's get a large handout to build a stadium.  It just comes off as resentment of the rich.  

 

Their ask for 100% financing is ridiculous, but it's a negotiation.  The only issue I have is with them taking a veiled shot across the bow that other cities (Austin) would pay... dirty, but expected.   

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by SCBills

[Saxum]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I don't care if their motives were 100% sinister. Fact remains, we have our team in WNY because of them. 

 

Y'all pay taxes everyday that help line the pockets of all sorts of wealthy politicians and corporate execs.  The only difference with the Pegula's is that this isn't "out of sight, out of mind".  

 

The only naivety I see here is people think it makes a bit of difference to you if the Pegula's get a large handout to build a stadium.  It just comes off as resentment of the rich.  

 

Their ask for 100% financing is ridiculous, but it's a negotiation.  The only issue I have is with them taking a veiled shot across the bow that other cities (Austin) would pay... dirty, but expected.   

 

 

It is not they taking shot - it is Legends which suckles on Jerry Jones' teat.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I don't care if their motives were 100% sinister. Fact remains, we have our team in WNY because of them. 

 

Y'all pay taxes everyday that help line the pockets of all sorts of wealthy politicians and corporate execs.  The only difference with the Pegula's is that this isn't "out of sight, out of mind".  

 

The only naivety I see here is people think it makes a bit of difference to you if the Pegula's get a large handout to build a stadium.  It just comes off as resentment of the rich.  

 

Their ask for 100% financing is ridiculous, but it's a negotiation.  The only issue I have is with them taking a veiled shot across the bow that other cities (Austin) would pay... dirty, but expected.   

 

 

I hate that our taxes subsidize socialism for the wealthy and that's pretty much exactly my point.  Buffalo is one of the poorest communities in the country so a freaking stadium is pretty low on my list of priorities for the area.

[Rockpile233]

I’m going to try to avoid this as much as possible. Anchoring unreasonable demands and threatening a viable substitute is negotiating basics. I don’t believe they will move the team, but it will be frustrating theater to watch.
 

 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

I hate that our taxes subsidize socialism for the wealthy and that's pretty much exactly my point.  Buffalo is one of the poorest communities in the country so a freaking stadium is pretty low on my list of priorities for the area.

 

I get that, but the Buffalo Bills are also WNY's identity.  The hope, happiness, sense of community that they provide isn't something you can quantifiably measure, but you'll sure notice it if you ever lose it. 

 

Regarding the economic status of the community, a state/local subsidy of a stadium is not going to change anything one way or the other.  

 

People have every right to be frustrated by how the extremely wealthy in this country are able to operate, but to have this as a hill to die on is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.  

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

 

I know this frustrates a ton of people, but in some way or another all stadiums are publicly financed.  
 

Those stadiums built by mostly private money tend to have higher PSLs so the individuals that purchase the seats are paying for the stadium.  Those with splits of financing have taxes (fees) added to seats and parking to pay along with things like hotel taxes or other bonds that get paid out of tax money.

 

My assumption based upon what we have read about all of the studies done by the Pegula’s is that the fans do not want PSLs and want to stay in OP for the tailgating.  If we accept those 2 factors as what the studies have shown - then I can fully believe this is going to be a mostly public financed project.

 

Why would the Pegula’s fund a stadium in OP and not have large PSLs like most new stadiums?  The answer would be because they are not funding it themselves.  If they were funding it themselves based upon what would be best for them - the stadium would be downtown near their other projects and then they would charge healthy PSLs for seats and eliminate tailgating because it is more profitable to force people to eat and drink in the stadium.

 

I think in a nod to the fans - the Pegula’s are giving up what is in their best interest and allowing a stadium to be built in OP, but because fans also do not want PSLs - my guess would be it is going to be a 80%-70% public to 20%-30 private funding because without the PSLs to offset the cost - the county and state will have to make up the difference.  
 

For every percentage above 0% that is privately financed the PSLs go up and there are added fees to the tickets and the parking.  You will pay either way - it is just is it spread out across the area or mostly on the fan base.

 

The fact that Terry put public ownership of the stadium on the table is encouraging. A combination of State and county funds could pay for 100% of a 500M new stadium and then charge the Bills 25M per year on a 25 year lease and recoup their expenses. 

[US Egg]

Erie County was willing to spend $50 million for a dome stadium planned in 1970 but ended up spending $23 million for the cement pond stadium. (and $10 million to settle a lawsuit) Didn't cost Ralph a penny.

 

Ralph didn't want the dome because it have less seats and he'd lose control over it to those seeking to build it.

 

Two County legislators went to prison for dome support bribery. 

 

My point: Speculation is futile at this stage. 

 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I get that, but the Buffalo Bills are also WNY's identity.  The hope, happiness, sense of community that they provide isn't something you can quantifiably measure, but you'll sure notice it if you ever lose it. 

 

Regarding the economic status of the community, a state/local subsidy of a stadium is not going to change anything one way or the other.  

 

People have every right to be frustrated by how the extremely wealthy in this country are able to operate, but to have this as a hill to die on is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.  

 

Fundamentally I think you & I probably agree on quite a bit and I do agree that a lot of the WNY identity is the Bills.  I only hope that the Pegulas do not exploit that for their benefit.  If they do ultimately come out & ask for a 100% funded stadium then go ahead and move the team...we can find a new identity without them.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I get that, but the Buffalo Bills are also WNY's identity.  The hope, happiness, sense of community that they provide isn't something you can quantifiably measure, but you'll sure notice it if you ever lose it. 

 

Regarding the economic status of the community, a state/local subsidy of a stadium is not going to change anything one way or the other.  

 

People have every right to be frustrated by how the extremely wealthy in this country are able to operate, but to have this as a hill to die on is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.  

 

I get where you are coming from. It makes total sense. But some (myself included) don't think any local government, just give any single private company anywhere $1B in tax payer subsidy.  I am not dying on the hill of don't give them any money, even though I don't think we should. I get you aren't speaking to me directly either.

 

To your point, it is part of our identity as WNY'ers. If the Pegulas build a $700M stadium with $300M. I don't love public money for private profit. But that falls within some reasonability. 

I think people are just largely offended by Pegula in regards to the ask. Had they asked in 2019 when the world was much less upside down, there would be a much less commotion. But people are struggling and we get this is the opening bid. But we are just so far away from reasonability. 

I really believe this was PSE/Jerruh's company trying to take the temperature of Bills fans as to whether or not they could use the community to rally against the state to get funding. It backfired terribly. 

[Motorin']

Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

it would seem since I read somewhere it would be state wide that it would be what, out of millions of new yorkers, a few bucks a year? 10 bucks? or maybe they can raise the tax rate to 9%. what is it now 8%? I just don't see it being an extravagant amount?

 

Would it necessarily raise taxes if the stadium was publicly owned? Why can't the construction costs incurred by a state / county partnership turn a profit? Not just leasing it the the Bills, but concerts and events?

[teef]

7 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

it would seem since I read somewhere it would be state wide that it would be what, out of millions of new yorkers, a few bucks a year? 10 bucks? or maybe they can raise the tax rate to 9%. what is it now 8%? I just don't see it being an extravagant amount?

i suppose that was my question.  is there an amount that the public would be comfortable with?  i understand the idea of not wanting to allow the use of tax money when it comes to an incredibly wealthy owner, but if it's 30-40 bucks a year...meh.

[Royale with Cheese]

How much money could be raised for a GoFundMe page on the new Bills stadium?

 

Could Bills Mafia raise $500 million?  I'll put in my $10 right now.