EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, red hots said:

Theres minimal need for parking lots. Theres around 20k parking spaces in Downtown Buffalo, of which when games largely take place on sundays, these lie otherwise empty, in an area with significantly stronger public transit than Orchard Park does or ever will have. Just because the field is only guaranteed use 10 times per year doesn't mean the building itself is empty. Lambeau Field is in use every single day of the year except Christmas day. Browns stadium 150 days a year outside of gamedays at last check in 2017/18. Theres 15 hotels in Downtown Buffalo which makes a stadium in that area much more strategically placed to hold private and corporate events. Bills Stadium has the Red Carpet Inn.

OK…I’m going to speak like an Architect here, because I am one. One of the major goals of any design is to make the most of its setting. The selection of either a downtown or suburban stadium site in the hands of a talented architectural design team would result in very different venues. Each would play up the amenities that the site brings to the design. One thing that’s really unique to the Bills game experience is the tailgating tradition and that can be encouraged and enhanced in OP. While on the other hand a downtown location will certainly spawn new traditions. There is no ‘right’ solution when it comes to design….but the one thing that all of us on this Message Board cannot bring to the table is money! I’m going to guess the site decision will be made based on budget and then the design team will be charged with making it the best, and most WNY appropriate, design solution they can within that budget and location. Make sense?

[red hots]

Those that would want to continue tailgating in a Downtown area would still pretty much be guaranteed to be able to do that. Theres a bigger picture however, the vibrancy and economic condition of Buffalo versus a personal desire to drink cans of beer and eat hot dogs out of the trunk of your car in a lot in a parking lot in Orchard Park because thats what we've always done and what I personally like to do. A stadium alone won't revive a city, but combined with things I've mentioned in earlier posts they all contribute to the overall health and perception of the city. Of course in the end money will be the biggest factor in what gets done and where. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Parking lots that would need to be built downtown. The roads out there are wider for the most part can change the lane directions as needed. Can't really do that with a narrow one way. If you think the traffic is bad in OP(it's not) go to a sabres game downtown with a quarter of the people. An empty stadium 350 days of the year isn't going to revitalize much. Yeah it may look nice but it's a waste. The billions it would cost on top of the stadium isn't worth putting it downtown. 

 

How do other larger cities manage to have a stadium downtown without tying themselves into knots?

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, red hots said:

It makes me laugh when people talk about OP having superior infrastructure. All it has is a sea of parking lots. It has non existent public transit, it has minimal bars, hotels, restaurants. Theres still huge traffic jams around games. Its an open air stadium slap bang in the middle of the snow belt. 

 

If Buffalo is serious about urban revitalization then this is every bit the same important piece that major developments like Canalside, the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus, Harborcenter and Seneca One redevelopment are. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, red hots said:

Theres minimal need for parking lots. Theres around 20k parking spaces in Downtown Buffalo, of which when games largely take place on sundays, these lie otherwise empty, in an area with significantly stronger public transit than Orchard Park does or ever will have. Just because the field is only guaranteed use 10 times per year doesn't mean the building itself is empty. Lambeau Field is in use every single day of the year except Christmas day. Browns stadium 150 days a year outside of gamedays at last check in 2017/18. Theres 15 hotels in Downtown Buffalo which makes a stadium in that area much more strategically placed to hold private and corporate events. Bills Stadium has the Red Carpet Inn.

 

28 minutes ago, red hots said:

Those that would want to continue tailgating in a Downtown area would still pretty much be guaranteed to be able to do that. Theres a bigger picture however, the vibrancy and economic condition of Buffalo versus a personal desire to drink cans of beer and eat hot dogs out of the trunk of your car in a lot in a parking lot in Orchard Park because thats what we've always done and what I personally like to do. A stadium alone won't revive a city, but combined with things I've mentioned in earlier posts they all contribute to the overall health and perception of the city. Of course in the end money will be the biggest factor in what gets done and where. 

 

If Pegula's wants to pay for a downtown stadium, great.  If Buffalo, Erie County and /or NYS are "serious about urban revitalization", they won't pay to build the stadium.

 

Stadiums don't that.  

 

Lambeau is open year round as a gift shop and museum.   It draws under 500 visitors a day.  That's a moderately sized hotel's worth of rooms per day.  FirstEnergy Field lists an upcoming event of Motley Crue July 14th...2022.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[red hots]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

If Pegula's wants to pay for a downtown stadium, great.  If Buffalo, Erie County and /or NYS are "serious about urban revitalization", they won't pay to build the stadium.

 

Stadiums don't that.  

 

Lambeau is open year round as a gift shop and museum.   It draws under 500 visitors a day.  That's a moderately sized hotel's worth of rooms per day.  FirstEnergy Field lists an upcoming event of Motley Crue July 14th...2022.

The direct article about First Energy Stadium in Cleveland I was referring to has this paragraph which states "Browns Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Dave Jenkins says the Stadium is actually used quite frequently for non-Browns events, up to 150 times a year if you count high-school proms, business meetings, charity fundraisers and similar events.".

 

Have a look at this article on Lambeau Field. It might surprise you how often it actually is utilised, it surprised me. Not just gift shops and museums. Probably the best stadium tour I've ever done as well. 

 

https://biztimes.com/sports-venues-home-run-corporate-events-2/

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How do other larger cities manage to have a stadium downtown without tying themselves into knots?

Atlanta has a subway system called Marta.

 

Driving to the stadium and parking is discouraged as it is expensive. 

 

You drive to a Marta station 30 or so minutes away from the stadium and park your car there. The train drops you off in front of the stadium. 

 

It's pretty convenient 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

If Pegula's wants to pay for a downtown stadium, great.  If Buffalo, Erie County and /or NYS are "serious about urban revitalization", they won't pay to build the stadium.

 

Stadiums don't that.  

 

Lambeau is open year round as a gift shop and museum.   It draws under 500 visitors a day.  That's a moderately sized hotel's worth of rooms per day.  FirstEnergy Field lists an upcoming event of Motley Crue July 14th...2022.

Is that true about being open year round and the visitor count?   That’s really interesting.  It’s not exactly a tourist destination.  Well, not one more than I would expect Buffalo to be unless you’re a fan of the team.  And yes, I know they have cheese.  
 

This is why a stadium closer to Niagara would make sense to me, even though I never want them to leave Orchard Park. The surrounding community is just as responsible for the fans tailgating experience as anything else.  Moving to city kills that in my opinion.  There’s just something about tailgating on grass vs parking lots.  
 

Now, if they were able to build it somewhere that has nothing restaurants AND preserve a lot of land for grass parking and tailgating, I’d be interested.   
 

I’m overall just scared of losing the personality and atmosphere that is already pretty much perfect.  Other stadiums are lame AF

[Beerball]

2 hours ago, red hots said:

Those that would want to continue tailgating in a Downtown area would still pretty much be guaranteed to be able to do that. Theres a bigger picture however, the vibrancy and economic condition of Buffalo versus a personal desire to drink cans of beer and eat hot dogs out of the trunk of your car in a lot in a parking lot in Orchard Park because thats what we've always done and what I personally like to do. A stadium alone won't revive a city, but combined with things I've mentioned in earlier posts they all contribute to the overall health and perception of the city. Of course in the end money will be the biggest factor in what gets done and where. 

How many games/year do you typically attend?

[Chandler#81]

57 minutes ago, Beerball said:

How many games/year do you typically attend?

I saw him at the Giants Home game in ‘87 with the scabs, if that counts. Lawerence Taylor vs Todd Schopy. 

[SirAndrew]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How do other larger cities manage to have a stadium downtown without tying themselves into knots?

I completely agree. Everyone always says, “wait until you see how bad the traffic is in downtown Buffalo, Sabres games are awful”. I don’t see any legitimate proof that it’d be a train wreck other than Sabres game anecdotes. I’m probably just being thickheaded because I’m in favor of a downtown stadium, but I don’t understand why the traffic would be much worse than OP. I’m open to an explanation, as I don’t understand much about this. 

[Buffalo716]

8 hours ago, red hots said:

It makes me laugh when people talk about OP having superior infrastructure. All it has is a sea of parking lots. It has non existent public transit, it has minimal bars, hotels, restaurants. Theres still huge traffic jams around games. Its an open air stadium slap bang in the middle of the snow belt. 

 

If Buffalo is serious about urban revitalization then this is every bit the same important piece that major developments like Canalside, the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus, Harborcenter and Seneca One redevelopment are. 

 

 

There are dozens of studies that show downtown stadiums do nothing to help a city's economy

 

A stadium downtown will not revitalize the economy 

 

And you can get from downtown Buffalo to orchard Park or any suburb in 20 minutes.. easily

 

It's fine in orchard Park. And if you think traffic jams are bad in op, you couldn't imagine 100,000 people downtown... That's why it's not going there 

 

Orchard Park is the easiest venue to build it around

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Doc]

Am in Rochester for the weekend so we decided to go to Niagara Falls and stop by the stadium today. Been a while since I was last there. 

[Buffalo716]

37 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I completely agree. Everyone always says, “wait until you see how bad the traffic is in downtown Buffalo, Sabres games are awful”. I don’t see any legitimate proof that it’d be a train wreck other than Sabres game anecdotes. I’m probably just being thickheaded because I’m in favor of a downtown stadium, but I don’t understand why the traffic would be much worse than OP. I’m open to an explanation, as I don’t understand much about this. 

Because the grid pattern in downtown Buffalo is wonky

 

It has one way streets and it's not meant for 90000 people .. 

 

At least orchard Park has more area, and road access

 

Sabers games draw 20,000 people downtown.. that's minuscule to the 85-90000 that show up to orchard Park to tailgate and watch the game

 

90,000 people in downtown Buffalo would be a mob scene, you would never get out.. especially with the one ways and such 

 

Downtown Buffalo is just not meant to hold that many people at once .. it's a big small City.. but downtown gets cramped with 20 or 30,000 people... Let alone 90k

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, Virgil said:

Is that true about being open year round and the visitor count?   That’s really interesting.  It’s not exactly a tourist destination.  Well, not one more than I would expect Buffalo to be unless you’re a fan of the team.  And yes, I know they have cheese.  
 

This is why a stadium closer to Niagara would make sense to me, even though I never want them to leave Orchard Park. The surrounding community is just as responsible for the fans tailgating experience as anything else.  Moving to city kills that in my opinion.  There’s just something about tailgating on grass vs parking lots.  
 

Now, if they were able to build it somewhere that has nothing restaurants AND preserve a lot of land for grass parking and tailgating, I’d be interested.   
 

I’m overall just scared of losing the personality and atmosphere that is already pretty much perfect.  Other stadiums are lame AF

Progress shouldn’t stop because people are used to a certain thing.  This mentality can keep people and cities stuck.   There’s nothing wrong with loving tailgating but if the decision is made to build downtown you’ll find something else to like about the game day experience if you choose to.  Ultimately, the Bills are playing.  What’s not to like?

 

 

[purple haze]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because the grid pattern in downtown Buffalo is wonky

 

It has one way streets and it's not meant for 90000 people 

 

At least orchard Park has more area, and road access

 

Sabers games draw 20,000 people downtown.. that's minuscule to the 85-90000 that show up to orchard Park to tailgate and watch the game

 

90,000 people in downtown Buffalo would be a mob scene, you would never get out.. especially with the one ways and such 

 

Downtown Buffalo is just not meant to hold that many people at once .. it's a big small City.. but downtown gets cramped with 20 or 30,000 people... Let alone 90k

I prefer downtown because downtown - if done right - is not just an open air stadium.  It’s an open air stadium that comes with massive public transportation, rail and infrastructure construction.  Those are investments that will benefit the city/region everyday going forward.   It’s time for Buffalo to think big and effin’ execute the plan.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I prefer downtown because downtown - if done right - is not just an open air stadium.  It’s an open air stadium that comes with massive public transportation, rail and infrastructure construction.  Those are investments that will benefit the city/region everyday going forward.   It’s time for Buffalo to think big and effin’ execute the plan.

I posted plenty of times. There is no data that shows that building new stadiums downtown help a cities economy.. plenty of studies have shown that

 

I live here in the city and we don't need it downtown. I wouldn't be mad but we don't need it .. I never walked downtown and said the bills need to be here.. it's just the hip thing to say

 

And it doesn't help the economy, it's been shown many times

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

The fact they are choosing OP, primarily for the tailgating is absurd. Honestly, grow up and graduate to a legitimate NFL franchise.

 

The Patriots play in a suburb and they've won more super bowls than anybody in the last 20 years.. 

 

There's no economic boost for a downtown stadium , and we have 40 years of tradition and history in OP

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How do other larger cities manage to have a stadium downtown without tying themselves into knots?

 

I am most familiar with Atlanta, Cincinnati and Nashville in terms of attending games in “city stadiums”. I’ve also been in Denver on game day but didn’t attend. I get why people worry about the traffic because it seems like it would be a problem. From my actual experience that’s not the case at all. It seems with so many roads to chose from you can find an option to get some distance between you and the stadium then it was clear sailing. 

 

Green Bay is unique in my experience. Not in the city, but in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Similar in terms of being surrounded by a grid of streets allowing for many options. Again, smooth getting in and out. 

 

It seems to me that more remote stadiums with HUGE parking lots have built-in bottlenecks getting in and out of the lots (and fewer surface roads to choose from). THAT is the worst part as I recall. I remember being so happy as a kid for the post games shows on the radio….because we weren’t going anywhere any time soon! I’ve never had that problem to the same degree in smaller city lots.

 

I’m not advocating for anything in particular, even if it may sound that way. I’m just happy they are still in WNY and I’ll come to support them when I can regardless of where the stadium is. 

[purple haze]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I posted plenty of times. There is no data that shows that building new stadiums downtown help a cities economy.. plenty of studies have shown that

 

I live here in the city and we don't need it downtown. I wouldn't be mad but we don't need it 

 

And it doesn't help the economy, it's been shown many times

 

 

I’m not arguing the stadium helps the economy.  I’m arguing that a downtown stadium be built with the items I listed as part of it being there.  New roads.  A more expansive subway system.  Rail access from downtown to other parts of the region.   Those are things that could benefit the city on a daily basis.   I’m thinking of a downtown stadium as an impetus for changes not an end unto itself. 
 

If a downtown stadium is not part of a serious infrastructure/transportation revitalization then just leave it in OP.  
 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by purple haze

[purple haze]

14 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

The fact they are choosing OP, primarily for the tailgating is absurd. Honestly, grow up and graduate to a legitimate NFL franchise.

 

I doubt that’s the case.  They’ll wind up building it where it’s most cost effective, i.e. where the county and state will contribute the most.   if it makes tailgating fans happy, they’ll say it was a factor, but that’s window dressing.