EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Man with No Name]

33 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Whenever the weather thing comes up I think it tends to get overblown.  The Bills played two playoff games last jan in OP and the Colts game was 30 and sunny with little wind and the Ravens came was a bit more breezy but the weather wasnt a factor.  I didnt pick up a snow shovel last year until the day after Christmas and i really dont remember WNY getting much snow in Jan either.  There is always a chance for horrible weather in WNY in late fall/winter but.... those instances seem like they are getting really few and far between.  I dont know if you look back over the past 10 years very few home games have been impacted by the weather imo.

this is not true. our passing game never had a chance to get started with that "breeze."

 if we are going to stay open air in OP, shouldn't we just renovate and save the tax payers several hundred millions of dollars?

[Greg S]

36 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Whenever the weather thing comes up I think it tends to get overblown.  The Bills played two playoff games last jan in OP and the Colts game was 30 and sunny with little wind and the Ravens came was a bit more breezy but the weather wasnt a factor.  I didnt pick up a snow shovel last year until the day after Christmas and i really dont remember WNY getting much snow in Jan either.  There is always a chance for horrible weather in WNY in late fall/winter but.... those instances seem like they are getting really few and far between.  I dont know if you look back over the past 10 years very few home games have been impacted by the weather imo.

 

The snow game against the Colts from a few years ago and the major snow storm that moved the Bills "home game" vs the Jets to Detroit were the only bad weather games/situations in recent memory that I can think of.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

if we are going to stay open air in OP, shouldn't we just renovate and save the tax payers several hundred millions of dollars?

 

That's a really big "no."  Rich/The Ralph/New Era/Highmark is unbelievably outdated.  Recent renovations are the definition of slapping lipstick on a pig.

 

Sightlines from every seat are awesome, but in this day and age people are doing more than just going to the stadium to watch the game.

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree about the impact of weather. Expect the influence of weather to grow as the league adds games to the schedule. We have two regular season home games in January this year. That’s huge with potential playoff implications. There seems to be a big difference with WNY weather before Christmas and after Christmas. These January games have the chance of being brutal. 

 

Biggest storms have been before Christmas than after Christmas because the lake effect.

When the lake freezes winds do not carry as much moisture.

[Man with No Name]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's a really big "no."  Rich/The Ralph/New Era/Highmark is unbelievably outdated.  Recent renovations are the definition of slapping lipstick on a pig.

 

Sightlines from every seat are awesome, but in this day and age people are doing more than just going to the stadium to watch the game.

Those were not full scale renovations like the ones done in Green Bay, KC, and Chicago. 

[WhoTom]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Biggest storms have been before Christmas than after Christmas because the lake effect.

When the lake freezes winds do not carry as much moisture.

 

True, but Lake Erie hasn't been freezing over lately.

 

https://greatlakes.guide/ideas/do-the-great-lakes-freeze-over

Quote

Since the early 1970s the annual average ice coverage on the great lakes has decreased by an astonishing 71%. Due to climate change, snow and ice depth have decreased on both the lakes and on land. This reduction in ice leaves the lakes uncovered and free to evaporate. And if you have read our article all about snow, you will know that when the lakes are warmer and water evaporates, the cold wind sweeps in and results in dense lake-effect precipitation. In other words, less ice coverage could mean heavier snow dumpings on land.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Agreed, but domes/enclosed facilities have come a long way since the Superdome was built.  Indy, Minnesota, Atlanta have amazing enclosed stadiums.

 

Indy and Minn should be the examples we are shooting for, imo.

 

Lucas Oil in Indy did a good job blending into the industrial area. And Minn's new stadium is gorgeous from the inside, and with that wall of windows almost feels like it's more of an open-air build.

[Saxum]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Indy and Minn should be the examples we are shooting for, imo.

 

Lucas Oil in Indy did a good job blending into the industrial area. And Minn's new stadium is gorgeous from the inside, and with that wall of windows almost feels like it's more of an open-air build.

 

I think Minnesota's stadium is what they should aim for and Bills should make a pairing with Tesla to add solar panels to facility to provide energy for stadium.

No retractable roof however.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

I think Minnesota's stadium is what they should aim for and Bills should make a pairing with Tesla to add solar panels to facility to provide energy for stadium.

No retractable roof however.

 

Agreed on no retractable roof. It's a nice thought, but it's more fantasy.

 

A retractable roof adds a ton of cost (likely another 30-40%), they NEVER work well, and it absolutely would not be used like most Bills fans hope. They wouldnt be able to open it for snow. Only on totally calm, clear, sunny days. So what's the point?

[LabattBlue]

26 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Indy and Minn should be the examples we are shooting for, imo.

 

Lucas Oil in Indy did a good job blending into the industrial area. And Minn's new stadium is gorgeous from the inside, and with that wall of windows almost feels like it's more of an open-air build.

This!  Anything else will be a major mistake. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

People talk about the wind and weather as factors, whether (no pun) it be for playing the games or for fan enjoyment.

 

However, when I think of a domed stadium I just think it is more attractive for players (WRs, for example) deciding upon whether they want to play here or not.  Sure, a great QB plays a large part, too, but with a dome or retractable dome, we instantly become a warm weather city.

 

No insult to anyone intended, but you are honestly fooling yourself if you don't think that matters to a player and especially his career...almost regardless of good team or bad.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by dollars 2 donuts

[TheFunPolice]

Buffalo's weather during the football season is no worse than New England, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, NJ Jets/Giants, Baltimore, or any other northern city. The rare big snow events are just what everyone remembers. It's just as likely to be 35-40 degrees for a January game as a blizzard. 

 

The KC/NE AFC Title game a couple years ago was forecast to be around 0 but by the time it came around it was in the mid 20's. Still every bit as cold as it could be here at that time of year. And that's in Kansas City. 

 

I'm of the opinion that football is an outdoor game. The weather is part of the game, and makes different places unique. Every dome to me is like playing in an airplane hangar, except Minnesota and LA, which would likely cost as much as 3 of these proposed Bills stadiums. 

 

I get that not everyone agrees, and that's fine. I just think that domes ruin the sport. 

Also, cold weather doesn't really affect the passing game. 

 

Peyton Manning had his best seasons ever in Denver, Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre put up all-time type stats in Green Bay (the Frozen Tundra) and Brady did OK in New England. 

 

If you're good, you're good. Did the weather stop Josh Allen last season from breaking all sorts of franchise passing records? 

[May Day 10]

From a fan's perspective, weather becomes another interesting, defining characteristic for the game.  

 

People say "the Colts game" and everyone recalls it and can remember a number of plays and the result.  Without the weather in a Ford Field environment, that game is very forgettable.

 

 

Im in favor of situating the stadium to reduce wind on the playing field and protect fans from it, as well as some sort of roof covering (for noise as well).  That is enough here.  We will get the unique weather cataclysm, but its all part of the show and what makes the league and this team interesting

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Whenever the weather thing comes up I think it tends to get overblown.  The Bills played two playoff games last jan in OP and the Colts game was 30 and sunny with little wind and the Ravens came was a bit more breezy but the weather wasnt a factor.  I didnt pick up a snow shovel last year until the day after Christmas and i really dont remember WNY getting much snow in Jan either.  There is always a chance for horrible weather in WNY in late fall/winter but.... those instances seem like they are getting really few and far between.  I dont know if you look back over the past 10 years very few home games have been impacted by the weather imo.

The thing is, it’s not just snow that impacts the game. Freezing temps and nasty winds have a huge impact on the game as well. I was always against a dome, because I’m not a fan of the atmosphere. I’ve come around to the idea because this league has become QB vs QB, and we have our QB. You might as well improve the on field product if you’re building a new stadium, and I genuinely believe playing indoors makes this offense better. 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Biggest storms have been before Christmas than after Christmas because the lake effect.

When the lake freezes winds do not carry as much moisture.

That’s fair, I guess for me it’s just a preference. There’s nothing about buying tickets to January regular season games that appeals to me. I can deal with snow on a 30 degree day, but when I think of January I have visions of 20 degree days with blazing wind. 

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

As an architect I’m fascinated by the impressions of the rendering. It looks like something designed specifically for Buffalo. I don’t think it’s a stock rendering with a label stuck on the side. But they’re going to need plenty of volunteers to shovel that outdoor end zone patio during the playoffs.  

 

I don’t think it’s stock, either.  But the stadium is not going in at the Perry projects (which is the setting of the rendering).  It’s going in OP.  Book it. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Here's a list I found. Not sure of the accuracy. 

 

Quote

NFL TEAMS WITH OPEN-AIR STADIUMS RANKED BY AVERAGE WIND SPEEDS (windiest to least windy) Buffalo/Orchard Park, New York 16.1 New England/Foxborough, Massachusetts 14.5 New York Giants/East Rutherford, New Jersey 10.1 New York Jets/East Rutherford, New Jersey 10.1 Kansas City, Missouri 10.6 San Francisco/Santa Clara, California 10.6 Cleveland, Ohio 10.5 Minneapolis, Minnesota 10.5 Chicago, Illinois 10.3 Green Bay, Wisconsin 10.0 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 9.5 Washington/Landover, Maryland 9.4 Miami Gardens, Florida 9.2 Cincinnati, Ohio 9.0 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 9.0 Oakland, California 8.8 Seattle, Washington 8.8 Baltimore, Maryland 8.7 Denver, Colorado 8.7 Tampa, Florida 8.3 Nashville, Tennessee 8.0 Jacksonville, Florida 7.8 Charlotte, North Carolina 7.4 San Diego, California 7.0

https://247sports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/Article/Kickers-Nightmare-The-Windiest-NFL-Stadiums-105213973/

[nucci]

The wind is the only really important weather factor. It's what affects the game more than anything else.

Edited June 23, 2021 by nucci

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here's a list I found. Not sure of the accuracy. 

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/Article/Kickers-Nightmare-The-Windiest-NFL-Stadiums-105213973/

 

Probably fairly accurate.  

 

If you look up weather averages of metropolitan areas - Buffalo is #2 of the top 51 US cities for snowfall behind only Rochester.  It is also the #2 windiest metropolitan city during the winter months ahead of all the other northern cities and right in line with Boston.

 

Therefore - although many other cities in the Northeast - NE, Chicago, GB, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and NY/NJ - none of them combine both the snow and the wind of Buffalo.  It is especially bad because Orchard Park gets even more snow than Buffalo because of the Lake.

 

Places like GB, Chicago and Pittsburgh get the freezing cold temps, but teams can play in cold temps with little impact.  The large amounts of snow and the wind both have the ability to impact games and they also lessen significantly the crowd noise and size - thereby reducing our home field advantage.  
 

Therefore as we have seen in recent years - the number of games impacted by weather is Buffalo (especially wind) is already higher than most places and then we built the stadium in a spot that is even more impacted by weather as OP gets both more wind and more snow than downtown.

 

We saw what happened when the team was good in the 90 and had deep playoff runs - we had many late season games - including playoff games - that did not sell out and had empty seats.  Then through the drought it was worse.  Now we are extending the season later into the more snowy months of January and playoff games into potentially February- it is likely to become even more of a factor.  
 

I get that people want weather to be a part of things, but for me - I prefer to see the game played at a higher level and really don’t want to see games negatively impacted because of wind gusts or snow that covers the field.  Buffalo I one of the only NFL cites that gets the double whammy of Snow and wind.  Even Cleveland with its location on the lake provides protection of the stadium from snow. 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Probably fairly accurate.  

 

If you look up weather averages of metropolitan areas - Buffalo is #2 of the top 51 US cities for snowfall behind only Rochester.  It is also the #2 windiest metropolitan city during the winter months ahead of all the other northern cities and right in line with Boston.

 

Therefore - although many other cities in the Northeast - NE, Chicago, GB, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and NY/NJ - none of them combine both the snow and the wind of Buffalo.  It is especially bad because Orchard Park gets even more snow than Buffalo because of the Lake.

 

Places like GB, Chicago and Pittsburgh get the freezing cold temps, but teams can play in cold temps with little impact.  The large amounts of snow and the wind both have the ability to impact games and they also lessen significantly the crowd noise and size - thereby reducing our home field advantage.  
 

Therefore as we have seen in recent years - the number of games impacted by weather is Buffalo (especially wind) is already higher than most places and then we built the stadium in a spot that is even more impacted by weather as OP gets both more wind and more snow than downtown.

 

We saw what happened when the team was good in the 90 and had deep playoff runs - we had many late season games - including playoff games - that did not sell out and had empty seats.  Then through the drought it was worse.  Now we are extending the season later into the more snowy months of January and playoff games into potentially February- it is likely to become even more of a factor.  
 

I get that people want weather to be a part of things, but for me - I prefer to see the game played at a higher level and really don’t want to see games negatively impacted because of wind gusts or snow that covers the field.  Buffalo I one of the only NFL cites that gets the double whammy of Snow and wind.  Even Cleveland with its location on the lake provides protection of the stadium from snow. 

Weather like wind, heavy downpour, snow, even high heat - typically helps to level out the talent gap so to speak. It almost never helps the better team. The better team is at an advantage in optimal conditions especially when it comes to team speed.