DrDawkinstein Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, nucci said: Agreed, No way Bills are moving away for a couple of seasons while stadium is being built This is why the Pegulas waited until the team was winning to start all of this. "Threatening" that the team will have to move works far better when we're a perennial playoff contender than in year 20 of a drought. Heck, some of us may have welcomed the break from the team had this occurred in the 2010s!
LabattBlue Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Nothing is decided yet. Not even close. IMO, this is all negotiating through the media with the city. "We'll just stay in OP, AND move the team away for a year or two. Unless we can get a deal done downtown..." I hope so. 🤞
May Day 10 Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 The Bills dont negotiate with the 'city'. Its an EC and NYS thing. I dont get how floating the idea of a Stadium in Orchard Park would be a threat to anybody. Nor does the promise of a more economical option of an outdoor stadium. 1
YoloinOhio Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: The Bills dont negotiate with the 'city'. Its an EC and NYS thing. I dont get how floating the idea of a Stadium in Orchard Park would be a threat to anybody. Nor does the promise of a more economical option of an outdoor stadium. I think if there is a “message” sent it is to Erie county which owns the ECC land that they are rumored to want to build on, which would allow the bills to continue to play at the current stadium until it’s done. Also, if I’m not mistaken the current stadium is being leased to them by Erie county and they will need them to agree to extend the lease past 2023. So I think “threat” is a big strong but it might be a not so subtle message Edited June 21, 2021 by YoloinOhio
May Day 10 Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think if there is a “message” sent it is to Erie county which owns the ECC land that they are rumored to want to build on, which would allow the bills to continue to play at the current stadium until it’s done. Also, if I’m not mistaken the current stadium is being leased to them by Erie county and they will need them to agree to extend the lease past 2023. So I think “threat” is a big strong but it might be a not so subtle message That I can buy and it is plausible. But to think this is all a ploy to strong-arm Byron Brown and the City of Buffalo into building a covered stadium downtown is fantasy If they wanted a covered stadium downtown, they would be floating that option, insisting its the only way the Bills can remain economically viable, and leaning hard on the County and the State for that. Also remember there would likely be many hundreds of millions in infrastructure to accompany the stadium... It would be a very pricey thing (and why I have predicted all along we are likely looking at Orchard Park for this when all the $s are calculated). So if they did pull the switcheroo and introduced this much more expensive option down-town, Im sure the State and County would point to the original 'plan' in Orchard Park Edited June 21, 2021 by May Day 10
Preds Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, RiotAct said: really? I didn’t know that. I enjoyed both when I went in 2018 and 2019 respectively. (Only had drinks at the latter, though) Yes really.
DrDawkinstein Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: That I can buy and it is plausible. But to think this is all a ploy to strong-arm Byron Brown and the City of Buffalo into building a covered stadium downtown is fantasy You can think that. I get my info from someone who works at the Project Management company which has overseen stadium builds in Atlanta, DC, and Seattle, and who was personally in the preliminary meetings up in Buffalo which Byron Brown and other city reps were also part of. The city is just another layer. State, County, City. All need to be on-board. State and County get theirs no matter which site they choose. Might be easier at the OP site since most of that is county-owned land. But the downtown site has plenty of parts under the city's jurisdiction. I know for a fact there were things the city reps brought up which threw a monkey wrench into the process very early on. Wouldn't be surprised if that was still occurring. Edited June 21, 2021 by DrDawkinstein
YoloinOhio Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: That I can buy and it is plausible. But to think this is all a ploy to strong-arm Byron Brown and the City of Buffalo into building a covered stadium downtown is fantasy If they wanted a covered stadium downtown, they would be floating that option, insisting its the only way the Bills can remain economically viable, and leaning hard on the County and the State for that. Also remember there would likely be many hundreds of millions in infrastructure to accompany the stadium... It would be a very pricey thing (and why I have predicted all along we are likely looking at Orchard Park for this when all the $s are calculated). So if they did pull the switcheroo and introduced this much more expensive option down-town, Im sure the State and County would point to the original 'plan' in Orchard Park No I didn’t get that from it at all.
runner68 Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 55 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: You can think that. I get my info from someone who works at the Project Management company which has overseen stadium builds in Atlanta, DC, and Seattle, and who was personally in the preliminary meetings up in Buffalo which Byron Brown and other city reps were also part of. The city is just another layer. State, County, City. All need to be on-board. State and County get theirs no matter which site they choose. Might be easier at the OP site since most of that is county-owned land. But the downtown site has plenty of parts under the city's jurisdiction. I know for a fact there were things the city reps brought up which threw a monkey wrench into the process very early on. Wouldn't be surprised if that was still occurring. Any chance you know that the issues are that the city brought up? Is this all just subterfuge to get the city to straighten itself out? sounds to me like the city isn’t as “out” as everyone has assumed.
Saxum Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 On 6/19/2021 at 7:42 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said: They could have built the new stadium when the team was bad. Now that they are finally good, we might have to be displaced from our home/home field advantage during construction! Go figure. Last year would have been a good time to build the stadium since fans could not attend other than playoffs but it would probably affect costs of contract since workers would need to take precautions. 1
May Day 10 Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 It's simple. They want to establish that after 2023 it's not a foregone conclusion they rubber stamp a lease extension But eventually, in the interest of cooperation, they will agree to extend the lease through that bridge time period in exchange for more funding from the state and county. And there is no doubt there were meetings with buffalo. Downtown was one of the final and most likely options and the organization did all due diligence. I'm sure buffalo threw up roadblocks because that's what they do, and that probably went into the decision to remain in orchard park, along with many other factors. 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 Why make another open air stadium, if thats the case then leave it as it is. Unless your building a multipurpose dome downtown then dont bother. Although i would like higher stacked seating so one can be closer to the field. 1 1
SectionC3 Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 4 hours ago, May Day 10 said: The Bills dont negotiate with the 'city'. Its an EC and NYS thing. I dont get how floating the idea of a Stadium in Orchard Park would be a threat to anybody. Nor does the promise of a more economical option of an outdoor stadium. The truth is they cut the deal with the Governor and nobody else. My suspicions on this run far deeper than this post, but I wonder if the Skyway issue forced the Bills’ hand a bit and they leaked their plans to make sure a major component of Canadian access to a new stadium isn’t destroyed. The point about playing elsewhere for two years was intentional. Not sure the purpose, but I’m starting to wonder if the Bills leveraged Poloncarz a bit on the vax issue to tamp that down and keep him in line. 4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: You can think that. I get my info from someone who works at the Project Management company which has overseen stadium builds in Atlanta, DC, and Seattle, and who was personally in the preliminary meetings up in Buffalo which Byron Brown and other city reps were also part of. The city is just another layer. State, County, City. All need to be on-board. State and County get theirs no matter which site they choose. Might be easier at the OP site since most of that is county-owned land. But the downtown site has plenty of parts under the city's jurisdiction. I know for a fact there were things the city reps brought up which threw a monkey wrench into the process very early on. Wouldn't be surprised if that was still occurring. I’m gonna guess eminent domain and the general … dopeiness of Byron Brown. They probably looked across the table from him and corporation counsel (smart guy, and a decent, kind person, but dour personality), looked at each other, and wondered why they were dealing with these guys. Byron in particular is a rinky dink player.
BillnutinHouston Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 Interesting that Kim hasn't held any media availabilities about this. I think that signals they're in negotiation mode and keeping things close to the vest.
Beast Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Why make another open air stadium, if thats the case then leave it as it is. Unless your building a multipurpose dome downtown then dont bother. Although i would like higher stacked seating so one can be closer to the field. The same reason they moved from the open air Rockpile to the open air Rich Stadium. They need a new stadium. And for those that think there are some games being played so the Bills can get a downtown stadium…..why would the Pegula’s have sunk the money they have into the Bills training facility to make it the best in the league? The Bills are staying in Orchard Park while construction takes place and the stadium will be right next to the current one. The Bills will reduce capacity by 10-15 thousand during the two years the stadium is being built for parking purposes. You heard it here first. Edited June 22, 2021 by Beast 1
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Beast said: The same reason they moved from the open air Rockpile to the open air Rich Stadium. They need a new stadium. And for those that think there are some games being played so the Bills can get a downtown stadium…..why would the Pegula’s have sunk the money they have into the Bills training facility to make it the best in the league? The Bills are staying in Orchard Park while construction takes place and the stadium will be right next to the current one. The Bills will reduce capacity by 10-15 thousand during the two years the stadium is being built for parking purposes. Agree with the post except the last line. Not hard to arrange buses from remote lots for fans. Also, the off-premises lots would increase as a result of increased demand, fans just have to walk farther in some cases. No way they reduce attendance to due to parking.
LeGOATski Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Why make another open air stadium, if thats the case then leave it as it is. Unless your building a multipurpose dome downtown then dont bother. Although i would like higher stacked seating so one can be closer to the field. 1. A hard-core crowd like Buffalo's is best served by an open stadium. It maximizes the noise. 2. A lot of winning teams play in open stadiums (Pats, Packers, Niners, Steelers, Seahawks, Chiefs...). It really has no bearing on a team's success or stats. 3. Football is supposed to be played in the elements. Period. 4. Domes are obviously more expensive and I bet the increase in profits from the apparent versatility is marginal. During the winter months, it's all football. And in a place with a mild summer like Buffalo, an open stadium still works. Keep the cost down as much as possible; keep ticket prices down as much as possible; but you still have a state of the art upgrade that the league is pushing for. 1
Locomark Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Well I'm no architect but I have to imagine a lot hinges on the stadium footprint. One of the big reasons the original Rich Stadium only cost $23MM to build in 1973 was most of the stadium was built in the ground. The result was a wide bowl. Great for fan views but not good if you want to put a roof on. If they did want to put a roof on later they would have to limit the footprint. It would have to be a taller, narrower structure with stacked decks, like Foxboro, which was built totally above ground. One of the big drivers of building in OP again could be, again, the cost of a stadium partially built into the ground. If they replicate that Rich Stadium template, they'll save money upfront but will make it that much more difficult to cover it later. Actually I heard the reason the cost of SoFi was so much greater than other stadiums was the fact it had to be engineered 100 feet into the ground to avoid the LAX flight pattern. If that is true, they won’t be digging it in because they will be trying to save costs. Let’s just hope this isn’t some bargain basement stadium like the hockey rink was. Do it right so it lasts for a long time and isn’t a joke in a decade.
SoCal Deek Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Locomark said: Actually I heard the reason the cost of SoFi was so much greater than other stadiums was the fact it had to be engineered 100 feet into the ground to avoid the LAX flight pattern. If that is true, they won’t be digging it in because they will be trying to save costs. Let’s just hope this isn’t some bargain basement stadium like the hockey rink was. Do it right so it lasts for a long time and isn’t a joke in a decade. Not really. That’s not why SoFi was so expensive. Putting it into the ground can actually save money when it’s done wisely like was done with Rich Stadium, but that’s not what they did in Los Angeles. There they actually dug a hole, built a huge retaining wall around the perimeter (like a moat) and built a conventional stadium at the bottom of the hole. So there’s actually an entire floor level down at field level. That’s not true in Orchard Park where the lower seating bowl’s concrete was poured right on the dirt. Hope that makes sense and helps. Edited June 22, 2021 by SoCal Deek 3
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