Doc Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Peter said: The most important quote from Poloncarz: "I want the public to understand there's been no gun put to the head of Erie County and New York state stating, 'If you do not do this, we are moving,'" he said. "I want people to understand negotiations are a long process. ... A negotiation takes time. It takes compromise on both sides." The Buffalo News and PFT/Florio have a lot of egg on their face. Makes the "the Pegulas want the taxpayers to pay for the entire stadium" to be the BS it looked like from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Most times there's 15 to 30,000 people downtown maximum.. not 80 to 100,000 people Downtown Buffalo is known for radical Street design.. designed around the Olmsted Park system.. made for walking and riding bikes, not cars... It's full of one way street and not a lot of outlets It's really not made for heavy congestion It was designed around the park system back in the day.. it's more of a European Street grid.. technically designed for bicycles and walking Buffalo - the best designed city in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Most times there's 15 to 30,000 people downtown maximum.. not 80 to 100,000 people Downtown Buffalo is known for radical Street design.. designed around the Olmsted Park system.. made for walking and riding bikes, not cars... It's full of one way street and not a lot of outlets It's really not made for heavy congestion It was designed around the park system back in the day.. it's more of a European Street grid.. technically designed for bicycles and walking Exactly. It’s fine in normal weekday rush hour traffic (even when people get back ti the office full-time… well, if that ever happens). But a 60,000 person sporting event with everyone leaving at once? Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, RiotAct said: Exactly. It’s fine in normal weekday rush hour traffic (even when people get back ti the office full-time… well, if that ever happens). But a 60,000 person sporting event with everyone leaving at once? Yikes. Just like Orchard Park? Everyone leaves at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, BillStime said: Just like Orchard Park? Everyone leaves at once. I never understood this. It takes forever to get out of the lots now. It would be virtually no different than it is. People would be more spread out with parking too, not to mention people wouldnt auto run to their cars to get out ASAP people would out after the game, which you cant really do now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: Just like Orchard Park? Everyone leaves at once. True. I guess if they could somehow finagle a system where there are multiple outlet roads directly adjacent to the stadium site that they could make one-way after the game (if they’re not already), feeding onto the 33 and the 190, -and- ensure that the traffic lights for the cross streets of said roads are all flashing red, it wouldn’t be TOO bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BillStime said: Buffalo - the best designed city in America. Yeah because you can walk to everything in the city .. that's why it's the best design City Not because of it's driving.. in fact the suburbs being so accessible makes it easier to keep in OP Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Yeah because you can walk to everything in the city Or take a bus, metro, bike, uber... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Downtown Buffalo has more one-way streets than most cities in America because that grid design Obviously the streets have been adapted for cars but the layout is the same Went to UB and took some electives related to L’Enfant’s plan for Washington. Buffalo's design was very similar to his plan for Washington with circles and one way streets to create traffic flows. This plan in Washington was implemented by surveyor Benjamin Ellicott and his brother Joseph. Joseph Ellicott then based Buffalo's design on those designs. Point is system was in place before Olmsted so it was not around the Olmsted Park system. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112106620468&view=1up&seq=31 https://view.publitas.com/bopc/olmstedparkmap/page/4-5 https://archplan.buffalo.edu/research/research_insights.host.html/content/shared/ap/students-faculty-alumni/perspectives/buffalo-is-still-the-best-planned-city-in-america.detail.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, BillStime said: Or take a bus, metro, bike, uber... Why would you honestly take a bus when you could take a bike downtown for free. Get a bit of exercise and enjoy the beautiful city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Doc said: Makes the "the Pegulas want the taxpayers to pay for the entire stadium" to be the BS it looked like from the beginning. It was from someone with a political agenda. Likely some of posters too based on some of the comments they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 I have to just say 2 things about a some of the downtown traffic issues. 1. I come back to Buffalo all the time and go to Sabres games. We normally park in the Sabres lots on Mississippi or Baltimore streets. It's a piece of cake getting into them but look at what drivers have to do to get back onto the 190 going either direction. Every time I look at my brother and say "we just got to go there, 200 yards away to get back on the 190". Instead you have to go through 5 or 6 intersections to get back on. It just needs a new entrance/exit ramp. 2. If the new domed stadium is over 65-67k seats it's too big. A whole bunch of stadiums in bigger cities have only that many seats. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Went to UB and took some electives related to L’Enfant’s plan for Washington. Buffalo's design was very similar to his plan for Washington with circles and one way streets to create traffic flows. This plan in Washington was implemented by surveyor Benjamin Ellicott and his brother Joseph. Joseph Ellicott then based Buffalo's design on those designs. Point is system was in place before Olmsted so it was not around the Olmsted Park system. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112106620468&view=1up&seq=31 https://view.publitas.com/bopc/olmstedparkmap/page/4-5 https://archplan.buffalo.edu/research/research_insights.host.html/content/shared/ap/students-faculty-alumni/perspectives/buffalo-is-still-the-best-planned-city-in-america.detail.html Technically you're right But the city wasn't connected in 1804 Buffalo was far from finished in the 1860s when Olmsted started building the park system and connecting Buffalo Elicott did start the grid before Olmsted, but olmstead finished by connecting the city like never before.. the park system is absolutely the most major component of the city Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Technically you're right But you couldn't get from one part of the city to the other easily Buffalo was far from finished in the 1860s when Olmsted started building the park system and connecting Buffalo Elicott did start the grid before Olmsted, but olmstead finished by connecting the city like never before And post development messed up a great deal of what was done like separating the East side where some of my relatives live. Olmsted aided in those walking in a city which was getting much more crowded. Its primary purpose was to add urban parks for city users like Central Park in NYC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Why would you honestly take a bus when you could take a bike downtown for free. Get a bit of exercise and enjoy the beautiful city Point is - there are far more options to disperse people in Buffalo v. Orchard Park. I get it - you love OP and the whole tailgating/game day experience - it's fantastic... I just think its absolutely pathetic to spend $1.1 BILLION dollars in an area that will never achieve multiple forms of transportation and little economic benefit. The people in Seattle, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Baltimore, Indy all have AMAZING game day experiences; it is just different and if it happens here fans WILL adapt. You have to maximize and leverage these transformative opportunities and invest and improve infrastructure to/from the CORE of the region... Airport... UB North... Niagara Falls... Burbs... connect them to the CORE. The City already has the bones - it just has to be maximized. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 I did one set of transparent plates for a class showing different things as Buffalo grew. Professor said "I was not aware you were an Urban Architecture major" I said "I am not, I find this fun. I do this for my AD&D gaming group." His response "Interesting....". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BillStime said: Point is - there are far more options to disperse people in Buffalo v. Orchard Park. I get it - you love OP and the whole tailgating/game day experience - it's fantastic... I just think its absolutely pathetic to spend $1.1 BILLION dollars in an area that will never achieve multiple forms of transportation and little economic benefit. The people in Seattle, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Baltimore, Indy all have AMAZING game day experiences; it is just different and if it happens here fans WILL adapt. You have to maximize and leverage these transformative opportunities and invest and improve infrastructure to/from the CORE of the region... Airport... UB North... Niagara Falls... Burbs... connect them to the CORE. The City already has the bones - it just has to be maximized. Major universities have done studies that show that new downtown stadiums do nothing for an economy There's going to be no economic impact whether in Buffalo or OP The same amount of money produced on Sundays now, is going to be produced when there's a new stadium.. it's not bringing in any new money or new business Edited August 5, 2021 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, BillStime said: Point is - there are far more options to disperse people in Buffalo v. Orchard Park. I get it - you love OP and the whole tailgating/game day experience - it's fantastic... I just think its absolutely pathetic to spend $1.1 BILLION dollars in an area that will never achieve multiple forms of transportation and little economic benefit. The people in Seattle, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Baltimore, Indy all have AMAZING game day experiences; it is just different and if it happens here fans WILL adapt. You have to maximize and leverage these transformative opportunities and invest and improve infrastructure to/from the CORE of the region... Airport... UB North... Niagara Falls... Burbs... connect them to the CORE. The City already has the bones - it just has to be maximized. A good deal of the money will come from county via fees and taxes. Buffalo has not been contributing to stadium. What makes you think they will pick up costs now? We have politicians in the DC saying same thing - and they expect suburb dwellers to pay this when they are complaining about cross suburb community transportation. 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Major universities have done studies that show that new downtown stadiums do nothing for an economy There's going to be no economic impact whether in Buffalo or OP The same amount of money produced on Sundays now, is going to be produced when there's a new stadium.. it's not bringing in any new money Some of those universities studies are paid for by those who believe that - that is why they provide funding. It is not cut and dry. Macroeconomics is a very fuzzy math system. Same systems declare inflation is low while the opposite is occurring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Major universities have done studies that show that new downtown stadiums do nothing for an economy There's going to be no economic impact whether in Buffalo or OP The same amount of money produced on Sundays now, is going to be produced when there's a new stadium.. it's not bringing in any new money You have to take a holistic perspective of the opportunity... very few benefit from having the stadium in OP. But if you build it in the city - improve transportation infrastructure and make Buffalo the hub - a LOT of people benefit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Major universities have done studies that show that new downtown stadiums do nothing for an economy There's going to be no economic impact whether in Buffalo or OP The same amount of money produced on Sundays now, is going to be produced when there's a new stadium.. it's not bringing in any new money There is some but let's say you are right. It's more about the "Downtown Buffalo Experience" is shows to the rest of the country. OP does not do anything like that. Businessmen and women experience downtown Buffalo coming to the city for away games is a potential showcase for the city. I do challenge some Buffalonians to Google map the South Park/Louisiana/Ohio St triangle. Zoom in closely at it. Tell me a wasteland like that wouldn't be improved with a shiny new stadium? Edited August 5, 2021 by ColoradoBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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