Niagara Bill Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: you act like he was the QB of the team.. HE wasn't he was a HB. This is a QB driven league but teams need decent HB's also. Teams with Elite QB's and HB's become very special to watch. You also act like its all on McCoy and McCoy was the reason that we did not make it to the SB. That's just nonsense. and you even said it right here.... McCoy was not in a winning system with a winning QB. Put McCoy and that kind of run threat on this team? yea... huge. Sorry, but either he was a messiah or not. Now we are on the QB league stuff. Just accept east west runners are fun, exciting but do not win and will disappoint you at the biggest of moments when they Must gain those yards. This all started when I suggested he could have never got us to the SB so why keep him. Many other backs in history in a Bills uni were his equal.
BADOLBILZ Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 7 hours ago, prissythecat said: Shady was traded for Kiko by Chip Kelly because he had a hard on for any former Oregon player regardless of NFL ability. Had nothing to do with Shady's perceived limitations. There is a reason why Chip Kelly is now out of NFL... Kelly traded McCoy because he wouldn't do what the coaching staff in Philly was asking him to do...........which was to be a more straight ahead runner and take the abundantly available yards inside. Shady had a habit of dancing in the backfield and then trying to bounce the play outside..........Kelly explained that in post trade comments that inflamed McCoy and made him pull the race card. (Kelly subsequently replaced McCoy with two other veteran RB's.......neither of them not black) His tendency to try to end every run on the sideline lead to inconsistency for the Eagles offense in Kelly's opinion...........and it lead to McCoy having the fewest yards per touch of any qualifying player in the NFL in 2014 (6.3) because LB's were getting smaller and faster and he was losing some speed. The stubborn McCoy then came to Buffalo and in 2015 he refused to take the inside runs that the Roman offense was giving him.........same as he had done in 2014 in Philly. After a brutal 2015 season he admitted that he was leaving too many yards on the field and needed to run the plays as they were drawn up(as the other, less talented RB's in Buffalo had been doing). That's how his big 2016 season happened. But no, he wasn't traded just so that Kelly could get Alonso........McCoy was put on the block by Kelly because he wasn't being coachable.
Patrick Duffy Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Kelly traded McCoy because he wouldn't do what the coaching staff in Philly was asking him to do...........which was to be a more straight ahead runner and take the abundantly available yards inside. Shady had a habit of dancing in the backfield and then trying to bounce the play outside..........Kelly explained that in post trade comments that inflamed McCoy and made him pull the race card. (Kelly subsequently replaced McCoy with two other veteran RB's.......neither of them not black) His tendency to try to end every run on the sideline lead to inconsistency for the Eagles offense in Kelly's opinion...........and it lead to McCoy having the fewest yards per touch of any qualifying player in the NFL in 2014 (6.3) because LB's were getting smaller and faster and he was losing some speed. The stubborn McCoy then came to Buffalo and in 2015 he refused to take the inside runs that the Roman offense was giving him.........same as he had done in 2014 in Philly. After a brutal 2015 season he admitted that he was leaving too many yards on the field and needed to run the plays as they were drawn up(as the other, less talented RB's in Buffalo had been doing). That's how his big 2016 season happened. But no, he wasn't traded just so that Kelly could get Alonso........McCoy was put on the block by Kelly because he wasn't being coachable. Yup, I recall the "falling out" with Kelly and McCoy. Kelly had the good couple of seasons and then it went to his head. He got ahead of himself and got power to make GM type decisions. Then it went down hill very fast.... 1
BADOLBILZ Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Yup, I recall the "falling out" with Kelly and McCoy. Kelly had the good couple of seasons and then it went to his head. He got ahead of himself and got power to make GM type decisions. Then it went down hill very fast.... Kelly wasn't wrong about McCoy.........they ran the ball very well without him in 2015 and made Shady eat crow when they shut him down in Philly by designing a gameplan to encourage Shady to bounce everything outside. Which he, of course did. An inexcusable loss to a fast fading Eagles team. But Kelly found out that it's hard to succeed running a dictatorship in the NFL..........especially if you don't have any rings like Belichick to prove what you are doing is going to work. Time and again in the NFL you see disciplinarian coaches run their course when players get frustrated with the demands..........and then players coaches stepping in and reaping the benefits of a well conditioned, hard nosed and then suddenly happy team. That's basically how the Eagles won the SB. They even ran chips RPO stuff in the playoffs/SB that had made Foles into a 26 TD 2 INT QB in one season under Chip. They got fat and happy quickly under Peterson though........his lack of attention to detail was the exact opposite of Kelly......and that's how it goes sometimes. Fortunately for us, Sean McDermott seems to be a more sustainable brand of HC. A detail oriented coach who demands hard work but has a lot of emotional intelligence to help keep the team in both good condition physically and mentally. 2
Doc Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 No single player is going to make you win. If that's your standard...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 On 6/28/2021 at 6:23 PM, YoloinOhio said: 😆 Kiko got the last laugh that day. Eagles 23 Bills 20..........Chip Kelly's floundering Eagles managed one last win on the year(and his NFL career).........at Shady's expense.........all but dashing the Bills playoff hopes. Shady 20 carries for 74 yards and then he didn't fly home with the team so he could drown his sorrow and embarrassment in Philly that night. 1
PrimeTime101 Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: Sorry, but either he was a messiah or not. Now we are on the QB league stuff. Just accept east west runners are fun, exciting but do not win and will disappoint you at the biggest of moments when they Must gain those yards. This all started when I suggested he could have never got us to the SB so why keep him. Many other backs in history in a Bills uni were his equal. someone please explain to this guy why a McCoy at 26 years old would be so good on this team. he don't get it 48 minutes ago, Doc said: No single player is going to make you win. If that's your standard... apparently that is a few peoples standards 1
prissythecat Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Kelly traded McCoy because he wouldn't do what the coaching staff in Philly was asking him to do...........which was to be a more straight ahead runner and take the abundantly available yards inside. Shady had a habit of dancing in the backfield and then trying to bounce the play outside..........Kelly explained that in post trade comments that inflamed McCoy and made him pull the race card. (Kelly subsequently replaced McCoy with two other veteran RB's.......neither of them not black) His tendency to try to end every run on the sideline lead to inconsistency for the Eagles offense in Kelly's opinion...........and it lead to McCoy having the fewest yards per touch of any qualifying player in the NFL in 2014 (6.3) because LB's were getting smaller and faster and he was losing some speed. The stubborn McCoy then came to Buffalo and in 2015 he refused to take the inside runs that the Roman offense was giving him.........same as he had done in 2014 in Philly. After a brutal 2015 season he admitted that he was leaving too many yards on the field and needed to run the plays as they were drawn up(as the other, less talented RB's in Buffalo had been doing). That's how his big 2016 season happened. But no, he wasn't traded just so that Kelly could get Alonso........McCoy was put on the block by Kelly because he wasn't being coachable. Link or is this something you pulled out of your a$$ like so many of your posts ?
BADOLBILZ Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Link or is this something you pulled out of your a$$ like so many of your posts ? Peter King reported it....... owner Jeff Lurie confirmed it https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/6/1/8701371/chip-kelly-lesean-mccoy-demarco-murray-quote-oregon-ducks-running-backs-physical-one-cut What do I get for doing 10 seconds worth of search for you? People who ask for links for things that are so easy to search themselves are just being argumentative for the sake of it. I don't mind the banter at all but have some self respect.
Niagara Bill Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: someone please explain to this guy why a McCoy at 26 years old would be so good on this team. he don't get it apparently that is a few peoples standards Ok, let face facts, you are an idiot, I have tried to explain my idea of shady, not that he was a bad person or rb, but that as an east west back he does not win. He would not help this team. A Lynch may. A North South rb would. Emitt Smith would help. GAYLE Sayers would help. Thurman would help, . You also need a back who has the ability and guts to block. Shady couldn't block his shadow. So I know you love him, I am happy fir you and your relationship, but to win a SB...never, not in his best days. Prime, have a good day! 1 1
PrimeTime101 Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Ok, let face facts, you are an idiot, I have tried to explain my idea of shady, not that he was a bad person or rb, but that as an east west back he does not win. He would not help this team. A Lynch may. A North South rb would. Emitt Smith would help. GAYLE Sayers would help. Thurman would help, . You also need a back who has the ability and guts to block. Shady couldn't block his shadow. So I know you love him, I am happy fir you and your relationship, but to win a SB...never, not in his best days. Prime, have a good day! the second you have to insult a person on these forums is the second you lost your case. good day! 1
Fan in Chicago Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 Ignoring the last several messages in this thread, I must say I liked McCoy. He's put his head down, played hard and was a team player. He had limitations but he put in the effort. Good to see his post with a shout out to his ex team mates. Class act
prissythecat Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Peter King reported it....... owner Jeff Lurie confirmed it https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/6/1/8701371/chip-kelly-lesean-mccoy-demarco-murray-quote-oregon-ducks-running-backs-physical-one-cut What do I get for doing 10 seconds worth of search for you? People who ask for links for things that are so easy to search themselves are just being argumentative for the sake of it. I don't mind the banter at all but have some self respect. I drilled into your article link. Here is the actual quote from Lurie: LeSean McCoy is a great running back - all time franchise leader," Lurie said, via NJ.com."Great guy in every way. (But to) maximize his power spread offense, (Kelly has) always admired the one-cut runners." There is no direct quote anywhere from Kelly about a mismatch in running style vs scheme . So in effect , Peter King is reading a bit into Lurie’s statement when he tweets that he heard that McCoy is too much east-west. Interestingly there is also no mention about McCoy refusing to hit the hole immediately and take those “abundant yards’” you speak of . Incidentally, what was the running output when Philly plugged in those new one cut runners? Was there output abundant? Edited July 3, 2021 by prissythecat Grammar
Niagara Bill Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 10 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: the second you have to insult a person on these forums is the second you lost your case. good day! You are correct, I apologize for the comment. Just frustration over took me. I never said he was a bad person, only tried to point out he could never win fir the team. That us why Philly was willing to give him away. Too many cuts, too many runs for negative yards, and no blocking.
PrimeTime101 Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: You are correct, I apologize for the comment. Just frustration over took me. I never said he was a bad person, only tried to point out he could never win fir the team. That us why Philly was willing to give him away. Too many cuts, too many runs for negative yards, and no blocking. Put a third Down HB out there for blocking. as for runs for negative yards? heck that is happening right now. never win for the team is different then what you were saying... I get that now.. I would still disagree. McCoy was a 1000 yard rusher. McCoy alone with garbage passing won us many games and when you run as much as we did because we did not have the passing game, there would be more stuffs for a loss.. that happens with running teams.. Baltimore is a good example of that happening lots. When you talk about East West runners you are talking about players with speed.. McCoy was faster then Singletary. Moss is faster then McCoy and I would consider him to be a East-West runner without the moves McCoy had. On top of all of that.. McCoy new how to run decent routs and in open field made the first one miss gaining lots of YAC. Our screen game was amazing with McCoy.. you count on him. He is my point. Any 1000 yard runner in their prime would get this team over the hump and into the SB. That should not be debatable. I would argue with you that McCoy on this team with Josh Allen, his average would go way up.. Teams could not just sit in nickel or dime all day.. We would force teams to worry about the run game.. The Threat of being about to run it down a teams throat does not mean we run it down their throats... It just means it is a threat, the screen would be more of a threat making this offense way more dynamic. McCoy's last year with the bills had -50 total yards from tackles behind the line. Before that it was in the 30's. He more then made up for it on the plays he made moves to get extra yards. The debate we have now is.. Do we have that 1000 yard rusher? that is extremely debatable.
Niagara Bill Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 7 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: Put a third Down HB out there for blocking. as for runs for negative yards? heck that is happening right now. never win for the team is different then what you were saying... I get that now.. I would still disagree. McCoy was a 1000 yard rusher. McCoy alone with garbage passing won us many games and when you run as much as we did because we did not have the passing game, there would be more stuffs for a loss.. that happens with running teams.. Baltimore is a good example of that happening lots. When you talk about East West runners you are talking about players with speed.. McCoy was faster then Singletary. Moss is faster then McCoy and I would consider him to be a East-West runner without the moves McCoy had. On top of all of that.. McCoy new how to run decent routs and in open field made the first one miss gaining lots of YAC. Our screen game was amazing with McCoy.. you count on him. He is my point. Any 1000 yard runner in their prime would get this team over the hump and into the SB. That should not be debatable. I would argue with you that McCoy on this team with Josh Allen, his average would go way up.. Teams could not just sit in nickel or dime all day.. We would force teams to worry about the run game.. The Threat of being about to run it down a teams throat does not mean we run it down their throats... It just means it is a threat, the screen would be more of a threat making this offense way more dynamic. McCoy's last year with the bills had -50 total yards from tackles behind the line. Before that it was in the 30's. He more then made up for it on the plays he made moves to get extra yards. The debate we have now is.. Do we have that 1000 yard rusher? that is extremely debatable. We shall disagree on Shady. East west never wins, just excite and disappoint. He was brought here to placate the fans. So many GMs wanted to give hope not win. We now have admin that wants to win a SB. They would trade Jish to win. Shady was a cover good, not great team. A waste of our time. We traded for Keith Lincoln to try and win. We traded for Shady for tickets sales.🥳. We got James Lofton to go to a SB. We got T.O. for tickets and fans. After 55 years we need to win. If that is not our goal bring back Lebeau and Donahoe. We can agree to disagree.
PrimeTime101 Posted July 3, 2021 Posted July 3, 2021 30 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: We shall disagree on Shady. East west never wins, just excite and disappoint. He was brought here to placate the fans. So many GMs wanted to give hope not win. We now have admin that wants to win a SB. They would trade Jish to win. Shady was a cover good, not great team. A waste of our time. We traded for Keith Lincoln to try and win. We traded for Shady for tickets sales.🥳. We got James Lofton to go to a SB. We got T.O. for tickets and fans. After 55 years we need to win. If that is not our goal bring back Lebeau and Donahoe. We can agree to disagree. They would trade Josh to win? LOL... your right.. with statements like this we wont agree to much
Man with No Name Posted July 4, 2021 Posted July 4, 2021 McCoy was part of a huge transition here and if he really was a problem in Philly, as written up, it shows a lot that he came to Buffalo and GREW UP. Something most people don't pull off until it's too late. only fond memories of Shady from this guy.
Patrick Duffy Posted July 4, 2021 Posted July 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: We shall disagree on Shady. East west never wins, just excite and disappoint. He was brought here to placate the fans. So many GMs wanted to give hope not win. We now have admin that wants to win a SB. They would trade Jish to win. Shady was a cover good, not great team. A waste of our time. We traded for Keith Lincoln to try and win. We traded for Shady for tickets sales.🥳. We got James Lofton to go to a SB. We got T.O. for tickets and fans. After 55 years we need to win. If that is not our goal bring back Lebeau and Donahoe. We can agree to disagree. No way!! Lol, they need Josh to win. 1
Niagara Bill Posted July 4, 2021 Posted July 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said: No way!! Lol, they need Josh to win. I agree they need Josh, but I am saying this admin wants to win, not just be decent, or good and sell tickets and Jerseys. Beane wants ultimate victory. He will not fall in love with a player over a SB. This is refreshing.
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