YattaOkasan Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Allen is a known commodity, plain and simple we know he is good and will be top 5 in the league. Jones all we have is what talking heads say and his game tapes. Yes he was surrounded by talent but he had the smarts step up in the pocket and he read Defenses well and delivered the ball on target and on time, he also broke NCAA record for accuracy. We won’t know if he be a boom or bust till he plays in the NFL. I think BB brought back Cam for a few reasons. First being that no QB was left at 15 and we ended up with the second tier QBs who definitely wouldn’t be ready to year 2. Second to give Jones time to learn the playbook and get use to NFL game speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones sat the year even if Cam stinks because another high draft picks give us hopefully a #1 WR for him to throw to. Sorry one clarification I need. Broke the record for completion percentage? I think thats a bit different than accuracy (Jones may still be very accurate). Completion % has accuracy incorporated into it, but also has things like processing in it. The blending of completion percentage and accuracy was not a wise development. 1 Quote
PatsFanNH Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 32 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: Sorry one clarification I need. Broke the record for completion percentage? I think thats a bit different than accuracy (Jones may still be very accurate). Completion % has accuracy incorporated into it, but also has things like processing in it. The blending of completion percentage and accuracy was not a wise development. My bad, you are correct, but I think the way you state it makes an even better case for Mac Jones. Like I said all speculation till he gets to play. 1 Quote
ghostwriter Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said: Allen is a known commodity, plain and simple we know he is good and will be top 5 in the league. Jones all we have is what talking heads say and his game tapes. Yes he was surrounded by talent but he had the smarts step up in the pocket and he read Defenses well and delivered the ball on target and on time, he also broke NCAA record for accuracy. We won’t know if he be a boom or bust till he plays in the NFL. I think BB brought back Cam for a few reasons. First being that no QB was left at 15 and we ended up with the second tier QBs who definitely wouldn’t be ready to year 2. Second to give Jones time to learn the playbook and get use to NFL game speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones sat the year even if Cam stinks because another high draft picks give us hopefully a #1 WR for him to throw to. I could be wrong on Mac. I see an average QB, but an Average QB + Bill Belichick may = an Above Average QB in many cases. It’s certainly possible. As far as the Patriots go, I see 9, 10 or 11 wins. I see the phins regressing horribly and I see the Saleh flaming out as a HC coach. Tua is garbage, he’s Johnny Manziel 2.0 and the Jets are just a horribly run franchise. Belichick has way too much pride to bottom out, he’ll want to go out in a blaze of glory. 2 Quote
PatsFanNH Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Victory Formation said: I could be wrong on Mac. I see an average QB, but an Average QB + Bill Belichick may = an Above Average QB in many cases. It’s certainly possible. As far as the Patriots go, I see 9, 10 or 11 wins. I see the phins regressing horribly and I see the Saleh flaming out as a HC coach. Tua is garbage, he’s Johnny Manziel 2.0 and the Jets are just a horribly run franchise. Belichick has way too much pride to bottom out, he’ll want to go out in a blaze of glory. I could be wrong about Jones as well. He is a rookie and it’s pure guessing game right now. I agree on 9 to 11 wins this year maybe more depending on how good or bad the QB play is. I think the Pats D can get them 9 or 10 wins this year base off of who we are playing. It’s kind of exciting right now the unknown. Haven’t felt like this since well Bledsoe was drafted way back in 94 I think. Mind you back then we had sucked for so long it could only get better lol 1 Quote
P Riv Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 Aside from QB and WR1 NE currently has a SB roster in any Brady year. They are a total wild card this year depending on how their QB situation develops. Their scoring defense was #7 last year and they got a lot better through FA and the draft. I read an article a while back that every year that they had a top 5 scoring Defense or above, they at least made the AFCCG. Aside from Allen and Diggs, I think their roster is better than ours (assuming Gilmore is there and 100% healthy). So, clearly a lot is riding on their QB situation. I started looking further back into Hoodie's past, he builds teams a certain way and you can see it all the way back to his time with the Giants. Did the 86 or 90 Giants have a star WR1 or QB like Brady? Nope... The defense and running game, TE's, possession WR's, all seem to look like very familiar types of players to what they have now. Just sayin, the methodology is distinctly clear. 1 1 Quote
BigAl2526 Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 20 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Allen is a known commodity, plain and simple we know he is good and will be top 5 in the league. Jones all we have is what talking heads say and his game tapes. Yes he was surrounded by talent but he had the smarts step up in the pocket and he read Defenses well and delivered the ball on target and on time, he also broke NCAA record for accuracy. We won’t know if he be a boom or bust till he plays in the NFL. I think BB brought back Cam for a few reasons. First being that no QB was left at 15 and we ended up with the second tier QBs who definitely wouldn’t be ready to year 2. Second to give Jones time to learn the playbook and get use to NFL game speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones sat the year even if Cam stinks because another high draft picks give us hopefully a #1 WR for him to throw to. I think Mac Jones is pretty smart. As you say, we really don't know a whole lot. One thing we do know is that college performance is an unreliable predictor of pro performance. Sometimes things carry over and sometimes they don't. Some people may remember a college QB who came out with a simply remarkable stat with regard to TDs and interceptions. I don't remember the exact numbers, but he threw an astounding number of TDs and had almost no interceptions. His name was Geno Smith. People may recall the crash and burn he experienced with the Jets. Quote
PatsFanNH Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 7 hours ago, BigAl2526 said: I think Mac Jones is pretty smart. As you say, we really don't know a whole lot. One thing we do know is that college performance is an unreliable predictor of pro performance. Sometimes things carry over and sometimes they don't. Some people may remember a college QB who came out with a simply remarkable stat with regard to TDs and interceptions. I don't remember the exact numbers, but he threw an astounding number of TDs and had almost no interceptions. His name was Geno Smith. People may recall the crash and burn he experienced with the Jets. Exactly! I would also point out, he was with the Jets, a very dysfunctional organization with poor ownership and GM and terrible coaching.. which did not help him in any way succeed. Where IMO BB will do everything he can to help Jones be successful. (I also think everyone thought Smith was a huge reach at the time, but I could be wrong.) I dare say BB is better than ANYONE the Jets have ever had as HC. I agree College states and wins don’t translate well to pros, As I have said I believe coaching and a strong organization can help make a QB better while others doom them. (How many top QBs got destroyed in Cleveland?) Quote
Don Otreply Posted June 28, 2021 Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/14/2021 at 7:58 PM, FLFan said: Jones can really throw those floaters, can’t he? Jones and Tua can can merge their combined strength to create one slightly above average game manager. Quote
Logic Posted June 28, 2021 Posted June 28, 2021 The thing that, as a Bills fan, makes me happy about Mac Jones and Tua Tagovailoa: Neither seem to be the type to go win you a game by themselves. Both seem to lack the "off-script, off platform improvisation" element that the upper echelon of QBs in the 2021 NFL have. Both seem to be guys that can win you a lot of games so long as your surround them with a stout defense and great skill players -- both of them DID win a lot of games at 'Bama by doing just this. But whereas Jones and Tagovailoa were protected by five star o-linemen and throwing to future first round WRs at 'Bama, Josh Allen was running for his life and throwing to nobodies at Wyoming. That "make something out of nothing, carry the team to victory at any costs" mentality was necessary to win games at Wyoming, and it forged in Allen the ability to thrive off structure and the killer mentality to rise to the moment in crunch time. Jones and Tagovailoa may have that mentality, too, that "clutch gene", but they don't have -- until proven otherwise -- the improvisatory ability, mobility, or overall physical prowess to pair with it to form an elite QB. Now, obviously Tom Brady has showed us for two decades that you can thrive without upper echelon physical talent and improvisatory ability. But I think the NFL is changing. I think the Allens and Mahomes of the world have an edge over the Jones and Tagovailoas. The next few years of NFL football will be fascinating to watch, to see whether the more old school, stand-in-the-pocket, play withinin structure guys can still be elite in a league that seems to be trending towards mobility and improvisation. Ultimately, when I look over the quarterbacks in the AFC East and ask myself "let's suppose all four teams are built well and have a good roster -- Which team's quarterback will elevate his squad past the others by power of will and sheer physical talent?"...to me, the answer is unquestionably Josh Allen. Zach WIlson MAY prove to be contender in this regard, but I don't think he has nearly the heart/will/competitiveness that Allen has. We'll see. At quarterback, the most important position in sports, the Bills -- for the first time in 26 years or so -- appear to have the best one in their division for the forseeable future. 'Bout damned time. Been a long quarter century. 2 1 Quote
mozillameister Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 Makes me sad tbh… Not that the Pats suck, but the way Cam’s injury has gone to kill his career. He was one of the most electric and smartest QBs in the field. You can see him calling lots of audibles last season to adjust coverages. It was the only thing keeping that trash offense afloat since his arm ain’t cutting it. He’s such a good guy and a great role model for kids. Hate to see this happen to him. Quote
YoloinOhio Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Oh noes! Pulling up the rear… Edited July 10, 2021 by YoloinOhio 1 Quote
GreggTX Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 So we're writing the rookie off before he takes a single NFL snap? I seem to remember some people doing the same to Mahomes not long ago. Quote
DJB Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, GreggTX said: So we're writing the rookie off before he takes a single NFL snap? I seem to remember some people doing the same to Mahomes not long ago. 1 Quote
P Riv Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 If we say it enough maybe its a self fulfilling prophecy? Future comparison will be....Matt Cassel. https://www.nfl.com/players/matt-cassel/stats/career Who's with me? lol Quote
Doc Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 2 hours ago, GreggTX said: So we're writing the rookie off before he takes a single NFL snap? I seem to remember some people doing the same to Mahomes not long ago. Why not mention you and Josh? 1 Quote
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 2 hours ago, GreggTX said: So we're writing the rookie off before he takes a single NFL snap? I seem to remember some people doing the same to Mahomes not long ago. I’ll see it when I believe it 1 1 1 Quote
PatsFanNH Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 On 7/10/2021 at 8:31 AM, YoloinOhio said: Oh noes! Pulling up the rear… No idea who Solak is, so I will take his work worth a grain of salt, especially since you can’t tell when someone goes to a second read right off the snap based on presnap reads.. Quote
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: No idea who Solak is, so I will take his work worth a grain of salt, especially since you can’t tell when someone goes to a second read right off the snap based on presnap reads.. solak is a Qb analyst for The Draft Network. I’m not paying for this but apparently he can tell Edited July 13, 2021 by YoloinOhio Quote
PatsFanNH Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: solak is a Qb analyst for The Draft Network. I’m not paying for this but apparently he can tell Thanks! Damn he looks like he is 12! Damn I am getting old lol.. that said I am so sick of every stat getting broken down further and further… I watched him play he looks good and he didn’t panic under pressure.. still don’t know how good or bad he will be just glad we went QB and not something like RT or something else.. and it wasn’t a reach. Quote
Success Posted July 14, 2021 Posted July 14, 2021 The Patriots offseason reminded me of us during the drought. Going kind of nuts in FA - getting all the headlines the 1st few days. Apparently getting some really good players and filling holes. But all for naught, because they DON'T HAVE A QB. 1 Quote
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