QBs on New Teams

[whorlnut]

I think the choice in the first question is Stafford. He’s a very talented guy and now has weapons everywhere. For the second question…how is it NOT unanimous with Fitz?  One of the best guys to ever put on a helmet…

Edited June 13, 2021 by whorlnut

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I think Stafford is going to light it up with the Rams this year. The Lions are a terrible organization that never seems to be able to put together a complete roster and besides Calvin Johnson (who he only had for half of his career) Stafford hasn't had elite weapons. On the other end of the trade, I think Goff will have a terrible season, showing just how good of an offensive coordinator McVay really is. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, CuseBill said:

I think Carson Wentz will most benefit from a "reset" especially with his former coach Frank Reich and a good line in front of him.  He has the physical talent and (I think) the intelligence.  He had no support at the Eagles on any level (coaching, line, running game, receivers, defense) and I think he will regain his confidence in a short time.

 

I think the problem with Wentz (from various reports) has been maybe too much support?

- Howie Roseman had a life-size picture of Carson Wentz on his office wall which reflected how Wentz was treated in the organization

- Roseman and Lurie gave him influence in the draft, FA, and coaching decisions even though he actually hadn't achieved that much

- Wentz didn’t always "take" to hard coaching or show personal accountability for mistakes

- Wentz would "kill" plays called by Pederson out of "personal dislike" for the play

- Wentz unwillingness to accept blame for his mistakes hurt him in the locker room

 

Quote

For the first two years, the Eagles on the surface appeared to do everything right with Wentz. But a knee injury in 2017, and Nick Foles taking over and winning the Super Bowl altered the dynamic.  Roseman, owner Jeffrey Lurie, and other Eagles leaders, however, treated Wentz as if he had won that championship.

 

Quote

Wentz’s Type-A personality could be credited just as much for his past success. Many top quarterbacks share the same trait. But the 28-year-old had increasingly rebuffed advice, defied criticism, and clashed with former coach Doug Pederson last season, Eagles sources said.
 

“Every great quarterback wants to be coached and they want to be coached hard and by the best, and it doesn’t seem like [Wentz] wants that,” one source said. “It’s kind of like whoever’s coaching him is working for him. But it can’t be that way.”

 

Quote

“He doesn’t understand that he lost games for us,” a veteran player said. “He will never admit that and that’s a problem because he can’t get it corrected.”

 

Quote

In the quarterback room, when his errors were pointed out, Wentz would sometimes make irrelevant excuses and Taylor wouldn’t correct him. For instance, there would be a play when he didn’t throw to an open receiver. The read was drawn up as designed, the coverage played out as expected, and he would be asked why he didn’t pull the trigger.

 

And Wentz would say the look wasn’t there, or he would overemphasize the pass rush, and when it was suggested the play be run again in practice as to get it right, he would object.

 

So here's the nutshell:

Quote

John DeFillipo, Wentz’s first quarterback coach with the Eagles, coached him hard. Former offensive coordinator Frank Reich did as well. They had years of experience, though, and Wentz was just entering the NFL when he worked under them.

 

The question is whether watching the whole experience in Philly unfold will serve as a "gut check" for Wentz. 

Will he listen and accept the "hard coaching" under Reich and his OC Marcus Brady, who is going to be a first-year OC?

 

Or will he keep on as he is said to have done in Philly?

 

Unless it affects the Bills, I'd actually like to see Wentz become a redemption story.  But habits are hard to break.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

A couple of days before the draft I was watching the NFL Network and they were talking about one of the QBs that's now on a new team. I started thinking about there being several former top draft choices that are on new teams and I unexpectedly started to realize that I kind of hope a few of them do well on their new team, for the most part, just to give their old team misery (i.e. especially the Jersey Jerks). Anyway, I was wondering what others thought. I originally was only going to include 1st round QBs that just went to a new team, but I couldn't resist including Fitzpatrick and then I decided to keep Winston on as well even though he was with the Saints last year and isn't yet considered the starter. And no, I had no intention of including Mitch Trubisky since we all hope he only plays after we've wrapped up  the #1 seed two weeks before the season ends. 

 

 

I'm glad the people are smart enough to vote Matt Stafford for the 1st option. Along w/ obviously Fitzpatrick, he's my favorite non-Buffalo QB for sure. Not only is he going to be great in LA, he's going to be in the MVP conversation. McVay is a master play caller and he can literally open up the entire play book now.

 

I have a theory that the early-mid 30's are the prime years for a franchise QB in these current times due to all the advances in healthcare & training. A decade or 2 before, it was the mid-late 20's. My reason being they have all the built in wisdom from 10+ years of experience playing combined w/ all of their physical skills still in tact. A good example is Aaron Rodgers. I feel like he's playing the best football of his life. He still has a great arm and has the intelligent and XP to know precisely how to use it. This is why I feel Stafford is in a prime position to take his game to a new level. 

 

I chose Fitzpatrick and Darnold as the guys I want to succeed, but am not necessarily sold on (Darnold being my least favorite option.) I hate the Jets and I want them to continue to be the laughing stock of the league and premier dumpster 🔥 franchise. I don't necessarily think he's some kind of hidden treasure. I'm motivated purely by hate. 😈 And as far as Fitz goes, who doesn't want him to succeed? He's a class act and seems like a cool guy to shoot the **** with. With that being said, I think he does have a legit chance to snag that NFCE. He's the 2nd best QB in that division IMO and I'll be keeping an eye out on his progress.

 

Sorry, for the long read...

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the problem with Wentz (from various reports) has been maybe too much support?

- Howie Roseman had a life-size picture of Carson Wentz on his office wall which reflected how Wentz was treated in the organization

- Roseman and Lurie gave him influence in the draft, FA, and coaching decisions even though he actually hadn't achieved that much

- Wentz didn’t always "take" to hard coaching or show personal accountability for mistakes

- Wentz would "kill" plays called by Pederson out of "personal dislike" for the play

- Wentz unwillingness to accept blame for his mistakes hurt him in the locker room

 

 

 

 

 

So here's the nutshell:

 

The question is whether watching the whole experience in Philly unfold will serve as a "gut check" for Wentz. 

Will he listen and accept the "hard coaching" under Reich and his OC Marcus Brady, who is going to be a first-year OC?

 

Or will he keep on as he is said to have done in Philly?

 

Unless it affects the Bills, I'd actually like to see Wentz become a redemption story.  But habits are hard to break.

Wow !!! Thanks for posting this as it is a pretty bad indictment of Wentz. 

 

I never knew all this happened in Philly. 

 

I'm not a Wentz fan and I personally would like to see him fall flat on his face. It will be interesting to see how the Colts go from Rivers the consumate nice guy to the ego driven Wentz. 

 

I like Stafford, Darnold and Fitz. I just think Fitz is too old.

Edited June 12, 2021 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Worst QB in the NFL from a clean pocket in 2020. I think playing on a good Indy team will expose what the primary issue was.... it was Carson Wentz.

Philly had a pathetic group of receivers to go along with a bad o-line (many injuries).  Wentz also had a role to play in their bad performance but it wasn't solely on him.  He played great during their super bowl year and was surrounded by a very good team.  Throwing from a clean pocket only means something when your receivers can gain separation or can win on contested balls.  Not much of either of those things were happening for Philly in 2020.  Even with all of that said, I agree with you and expect him to be a big disappointment in Indy.  They will hide some of his problems with a good running game but when he must deliver on a critical drive in a close game, I expect him to fail.

[TBBills]

Only Stafford. 

 

WFT basically hurt themselves b.c with Fitz you will not make the playoffs. You know... Fitz curse.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Wow !!! Thanks for posting this as it is a pretty bad indictment of Wentz. 

I never knew all this happened in Philly. 

I'm not a Wentz fan and I personally would like to see him fall flat on his face. It will be interesting to see how the Colts go from Rivers the consumate nice guy to the ego driven Wentz. 

 

Sometimes big-ego not-very-nice guys get a "gut check" and change state. 

 

Reportedly Jim Kelly was not a very likeable guy his first years in Buffalo, and reportedly didn't show accountability privately and threw his teammates under the bus publicly.  In 1989, the "Bickering Bills" year, Thurman Thomas famously returned fire.  He was asked in a TV interview what positions the Bills could improve on, and said "Quarterback". 

 

Kelly got the message (presumably from others as well), and now all these years later that whole core group of players are still best friends.

 

I like to see good football, and we're located so we either get Indy or KC on TV a lot.  I'd just as soon watch a good game as a bad one, so I have no particular desire for Wentz to fall on his face unless he's playing the Bills.

 

But it's going to be interesting to see how the Colts first-year OC fares with Wentz.

 

17 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I like Stafford, Darnold and Fitz. I just think Fitz is too old.

 

HA!  I've been thinking Fitz is too old for like the last 6 years, and yet, there he is running the "Ryan Fitzpatrick Cycle" with Yet Another Team.

 

IIRC, Buddy Nix cited Fitz age (30 at the time) as one reason to move on the spring the Bills cut him.  It's like Fitz subsequent career has been one giant middle finger to Nix for that.

 

TBH Fitz arm looked better last year and the year before than I'd seen it, and his pick % was down.  I think he may have been working on his passing mechanics and working harder on his physical condition.  Back when he was with the Bills, he used to show up with a pronounced "Dad Bod" and a nice coating of fat over his fitness.

[MJS]

Does Stafford need to resurrect his career? He has always been pretty good. If he can maintain his level of play that would be a good thing for his new team.

[H2o]

I think Stafford in LA with McVay is a really good match. In that offense I think he has the best years of his career. I then want to see Fitz do well in Washington, but suck against us, and finally get a taste of the playoffs. 

[Rico]

Fitz and Fitz. Right team in the right division, he finally makes the playoffs.

 

Honorable mention to Darnold, because Jets. I feel like giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Have no use for the other QB's on the list.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Boxcar said:

I don't really think Stafford or Fitz quite belong there. The others haven't been good and required a change of scenery, but changing teams is normal for Fitz and Stafford is already a very good QB and has been for his while career.

 

I'd love to see Darnold succeed. Poor guy got such a raw deal.

I agree that Stafford was a completely different situation than Darnold or Wentz in that he was never the problem in Detroit, he just didn't have a team around him. I just wanted to keep him here since he's another former top pick that switched teams. Actually, I was listening to Sirius XM NFL Radio yesterday (?) and I think it was Ryan Leaf was ranking the QBs in the NFC West. He had Stafford as last saying that until he sees it, he's not buying that changing Goff for Stafford is going to necessarily change much.

 

As for Fitz, yes, he's the odd man out in that he's not a former top pick, he has generally been what he is, a decent stop gap QB or a good backup. Again, I just decided to include him for as much as any reason many of us like to see him succeed when it doesn't adversely affect the Bills. Him being in the NFC, and also being the on the only NFC team that only plays the Bills in our division, I likely will root for him in every game except of course against the Bills.

13 hours ago, CuseBill said:

I think Carson Wentz will most benefit from a "reset" especially with his former coach Frank Reich and a good line in front of him.  He has the physical talent and (I think) the intelligence.  He had no support at the Eagles on any level (coaching, line, running game, receivers, defense) and I think he will regain his confidence in a short time.

I agree, or at least I kind of hope you're right. I don't really care about Wentz except I like the idea of Reich looking good and him resurrecting Wentz's career will make him look good. Of course, if he does, then the Colts will be competition for the Bills, but that's ok, so long as we beat them in the playoffs. And, I'd much rather the Colts win than the Titans. 

[CA OC Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

No Andy dalton?

 

I picked Darnold because he’s Josh’s friend and because it will piss off jets fans if he’s good 

When I was first thinking about starting this thread, I was going to include Dalton, I just forgot😟 If I knew how to edit the choices, I'd add him on. Personally, I'd like to see him do well but I don't see any chance that he will in Chicago.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I have a theory that the early-mid 30's are the prime years for a franchise QB in these current times due to all the advances in healthcare & training. A decade or 2 before, it was the mid-late 20's. My reason being they have all the built in wisdom from 10+ years of experience playing combined w/ all of their physical skills still in tact. A good example is Aaron Rodgers. I feel like he's playing the best football of his life. He still has a great arm and has the intelligent and XP to know precisely how to use it. This is why I feel Stafford is in a prime position to take his game to a new level.

I can partially buy this as it makes sense. However, I can't think of many QBs who first start to look great in their 30s. Rich Gannon possibly, but that wasn't recent. Rogers was always good since he took over as a starter. I'd agree that his experience has helped him get better. I think you could have always said that was the case that QB's experience after 10 years in the league made them better. The big difference now vs. years ago is more about the rules than the training. Kelly was absolutely killed for most of his career. Part was from early on the Bills didn't have a line. Part was the way he played the game. But a big part was that the rules allowed him to be hit much more and much harder than he would be today. 

[RaoulDuke79]

Stafford is going to light it up .

[Boxcar]

24 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

I agree that Stafford was a completely different situation than Darnold or Wentz in that he was never the problem in Detroit, he just didn't have a team around him. I just wanted to keep him here since he's another former top pick that switched teams. Actually, I was listening to Sirius XM NFL Radio yesterday (?) and I think it was Ryan Leaf was ranking the QBs in the NFC West. He had Stafford as last saying that until he sees it, he's not buying that changing Goff for Stafford is going to necessarily change much.

 

As for Fitz, yes, he's the odd man out in that he's not a former top pick, he has generally been what he is, a decent stop gap QB or a good backup. Again, I just decided to include him for as much as any reason many of us like to see him succeed when it doesn't adversely affect the Bills. Him being in the NFC, and also being the on the only NFC team that only plays the Bills in our division, I likely will root for him in every game except of course against the Bills.

I agree, or at least I kind of hope you're right. I don't really care about Wentz except I like the idea of Reich looking good and him resurrecting Wentz's career will make him look good. Of course, if he does, then the Colts will be competition for the Bills, but that's ok, so long as we beat them in the playoffs. And, I'd much rather the Colts win than the Titans. 

I'm sorry, what? Someone ranked Stafford below Trey Lance/Jimmy G and Kyler Murray?

 

Lolk

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

When I was first thinking about starting this thread, I was going to include Dalton, I just forgot😟 If I knew how to edit the choices, I'd add him on. Personally, I'd like to see him do well but I don't see any chance that he will in Chicago.

 

Edit your OP post (the one that started the thread).  Look at the top.  You'll see two tabs with choices, "Content" is one, and "Poll" is the other.

Click on Poll and the changes you want are Your Oyster.

[machine gun kelly]

Stafford should do well as he didn’t have a running game or much of a defense in Detroit.  The Rams upgraded their QB, and his stats in Detroit were somewhat eye popping.  He also isn’t that old.  He could be there another 8 years as he’s only 33.

 

I think everyone roots for Fitz, but he’s just a bridge until they find one in the draft next year.

 

This really is the last chance for Wentz.  He’ll be a backup if he fails in Indy.  They are one of the more balanced teams in the AFC, and Reich did get something out of him in the past.  That one is a real crapshoot.  Selfishly, I hope it doesn’t go well as they’ll make the playoffs if he does well.

[SoTier]

I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball with these QBs, especially Wentz.   I think that a significant amount of any QB's success stems from his situation, which is why I picked Stafford, Wentz, and Fitzpatrick.  They are all in situations where they're set up for success with quality teams around them, but Wentz is the one with the big question marks.   If he can't return to recover his early career form on a talented team with a quality coaching staff like Indy, then there's no excuses for him.  Indy is a good QB away from being a serious SB contender.