Kelly the Dog Posted April 26, 2005 Posted April 26, 2005 I amassed a list of the last few coaches of every team to show how there isn't a single GM in the league that has chosen two consecutive good coaches, and there isn't really even a team in the league that has done it with the possible exception of the Steelers with Noll and Cowher, although a lot of people hate Cowher and even more knew that Noll had lost it long before they replaced him. Here is an updated list: RAVENS Billick Marchibroda BILLS Mularkey Gregg Williams Wade Phillips BENGALS Marvin Lewis Dick LeBeau Bruce Coslet BROWNS Butch Davis Chris Palmer Bill Belichick BRONCOS Shanahan Wade Phillips Dan Reeves HOUSTON Dom Capers COLTS Tony Dungy Lindy Infante Jim Mora JAGUARS Jack Del Rio Tom Coughlin CHIEFS Dick Vermeil Gunther Cunningham Marty Schottenheimer DOLPHINS Dave Wannstedt Jimmy Johnson Don Shula PATRIOTS Bill Bellichick Pete Carroll Bill Parcells JETS Herman Edwards Al Groh Bill Parcells Rich Kotite RAIDERS Norv Turner Bill Callahan Jon Gruden STEELERS Bill Cowher Chuck Noll (two good ones but not same GM and the last one that did was you know who) CHARGERS Marty Schottenheimer Mike Riley Kevin Gilbride TITANS Jeff Fisher Jack Pardee Jerry Glanville (this is arguable too as Fisher and Pardee were both pretty good but neither won anything and Mike Holovak hired Pardee while Floyd Reese hired Fisher)) CARDS Denny Green Dave McGinnis Vince Tobin Buddy Ryan FALCONS Jim Mora, Jr. Dan Reeves June Jones PANTHERS John Fox George Seifert Dom Capers BEARS Lovie Smith Dick Jauron Dave Wannstedt COWBOYS Bill Parcells Dave Campo Chan Gailey Barry Switzer LIONS Steve Mariucci Mike Mornhinweg Bobby Ross PACKERS Mike Sherman Ray Rhodes Mike Holmgren Lindy Infante VIKINGS Mike Tice Denny Green Joe Burns SAINTS Jim Haslett Jim Mora Mike Ditka GIANTS Tom Coughlin Jim Fassell Dan Reeves Ray Handley EAGLES Andy Reid Ray Rhodes Rich Kotite 49ers Dennis Erickson Steve Marriucci George Seifert SEAHAGS Mike Holmgren Dennis Erickson Tom Flores RAMS Mike Martz Dick Vermeil Rich Brooks BUCS Jon Gruden Tony Dungy Sam Wyche REDSKINS Joe Gibbs Marty Schottenheimer Steve Spurrier Norv Turner
dave mcbride Posted April 26, 2005 Posted April 26, 2005 I amassed a list of the last few coaches of every team to show how there isn't a single GM in the league that has chosen two consecutive good coaches, and there isn't really even a team in the league that has done it with the possible exception of the Steelers with Noll and Cowher, although a lot of people hate Cowher and even more knew that Noll had lost it long before they replaced him. Here is an updated list: RAVENS Billick Marchibroda BILLS Mularkey Gregg Williams Wade Phillips BENGALS Marvin Lewis Dick LeBeau Bruce Coslet BROWNS Butch Davis Chris Palmer Bill Belichick BRONCOS Shanahan Wade Phillips Dan Reeves HOUSTON Dom Capers COLTS Tony Dungy Lindy Infante Jim Mora JAGUARS Jack Del Rio Tom Coughlin CHIEFS Dick Vermeil Gunther Cunningham Marty Schottenheimer DOLPHINS Dave Wannstedt Jimmy Johnson Don Shula PATRIOTS Bill Bellichick Pete Carroll Bill Parcells JETS Herman Edwards Al Groh Bill Parcells Rich Kotite RAIDERS Norv Turner Bill Callahan Jon Gruden STEELERS Bill Cowher Chuck Noll (two good ones but not same GM and the last one that did was you know who) CHARGERS Marty Schottenheimer Mike Riley Kevin Gilbride TITANS Jeff Fisher Jack Pardee Jerry Glanville (this is arguable too as Fisher and Pardee were both pretty good but neither won anything and Mike Holovak hired Pardee while Floyd Reese hired Fisher)) CARDS Denny Green Dave McGinnis Vince Tobin Buddy Ryan FALCONS Jim Mora, Jr. Dan Reeves June Jones PANTHERS John Fox George Seifert Dom Capers BEARS Lovie Smith Dick Jauron Dave Wannstedt COWBOYS Bill Parcells Dave Campo Chan Gailey Barry Switzer LIONS Steve Mariucci Mike Mornhinweg Bobby Ross PACKERS Mike Sherman Ray Rhodes Mike Holmgren Lindy Infante VIKINGS Mike Tice Denny Green Joe Burns SAINTS Jim Haslett Jim Mora Mike Ditka GIANTS Tom Coughlin Jim Fassell Dan Reeves Ray Handley EAGLES Andy Reid Ray Rhodes Rich Kotite 49ers Dennis Erickson Steve Marriucci George Seifert SEAHAGS Mike Holmgren Dennis Erickson Tom Flores RAMS Mike Martz Dick Vermeil Rich Brooks BUCS Jon Gruden Tony Dungy Sam Wyche REDSKINS Joe Gibbs Marty Schottenheimer Steve Spurrier Norv Turner 320104[/snapback] no offense dog, but i don't know of anyone the board who thinks mularkey was a bad hire. i for one think he's great - positive but easygoing attitude with the media, no boasting, realistic, flexible. it was a good move by donohoe, who in retrospect overanalyzed when picking williams. with mularkey, he seems to have gone with his gut. smart move.
AKC Posted April 26, 2005 Posted April 26, 2005 I always figured Williams was hired because TD is a boob man.
JimBob2232 Posted April 26, 2005 Posted April 26, 2005 Thats why mcnally was hired Also, shula and Johnson wasnt a bad duo either Oh, and what man ISNT a boob man?
Tossy McSalad Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Oh, and what man ISNT a boob man? 320203[/snapback] Me.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 no offense dog, but i don't know of anyone the board who thinks mularkey was a bad hire. i for one think he's great - positive but easygoing attitude with the media, no boasting, realistic, flexible. it was a good move by donohoe, who in retrospect overanalyzed when picking williams. with mularkey, he seems to have gone with his gut. smart move. 320179[/snapback] Sorry, perhaps you missed the point, and I certainly didn't explain what I meant. I like the Mularkey hire a lot. It seems obvious that the Gregg Williams hire was a mistake. The point of the list is only to say that GMs around the league have a difficult time choosing coaches, and no GM in the entire league has made two consecutive good picks. It is not a talent that good GMs have and bad or mediocre GMs don't. And just because TD did make a mistake on his first, and needs to be held accountable, it is not unusual for even the very best GMs to make glaring errors in choosing head coaches.
RJsackedagain Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Sorry, perhaps you missed the point, and I certainly didn't explain what I meant. I like the Mularkey hire a lot. It seems obvious that the Gregg Williams hire was a mistake. The point of the list is only to say that GMs around the league have a difficult time choosing coaches, and no GM in the entire league has made two consecutive good picks. It is not a talent that good GMs have and bad or mediocre GMs don't. And just because TD did make a mistake on his first, and needs to be held accountable, it is not unusual for even the very best GMs to make glaring errors in choosing head coaches. 320222[/snapback] I think part of the reason there's few GMs who make two good hires is because A. They are gone after the first bad hire. B. They redeem themselves with a good second hire after screwing up the first time ... ex. Mularkey. No wonder the Bears have stunk for so long, hiring a Lovie, a Dick and a Dave!
SDS Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 the jury is still out on Jags (unless Coughin was considered GM). I think TC was successful there and JDR looks promising. Also, Walsh/Seifert were a good tandem. Of course there is an inherent bias in this analysis in that highly successful coaches are only replaced via retirement as opposed to being fired.
finknottle Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 I think part of the reason there's few GMs who make two good hires is because A. They are gone after the first bad hire. B. They redeem themselves with a good second hire after screwing up the first time ... ex. Mularkey. No wonder the Bears have stunk for so long, hiring a Lovie, a Dick and a Dave! 320224[/snapback] Yeah, and there is subtle mathematics going on here. A good hire has a much longer tenure than a bad hire. This skews the statistics, so on average most GM hires are 'bad.' No GM, for example, is likely to have two good hires, let alone three. On another note, IMO some of the hires listed were good but the team struggled for other reasons (like ownership) and the coaches reps took the blame: Shottenheimer / Spurrier for example.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 the jury is still out on Jags (unless Coughin was considered GM). I think TC was successful there and JDR looks promising. Also, Walsh/Seifert were a good tandem. Of course there is an inherent bias in this analysis in that highly successful coaches are only replaced via retirement as opposed to being fired. 320240[/snapback] Where was the highly successful coach who retired followed by a good choice for his successor? You're right about Walsh and Seifert though, although I believe Walsh handpicked his successor rather than the same GM making two good consecutive picks. Del Rio still could be good, you're right, although after that stinker the team pulled at the end of the season at home that allowed the Bills to even have a chance at the playoffs doesn't bode well for his big game abilities.
VABills Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Brocos, and Pats had 2 out there their last three turn out damn well. Same could be said of the Rams and Bucs. Hell Indy has even had some good but not great ones all the way through.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 Brocos, and Pats had 2 out there their last three turn out damn well. Same could be said of the Rams and Bucs. Hell Indy has even had some good but not great ones all the way through. 320278[/snapback] That kind of supports my theory though.
VABills Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 That kind of supports my theory though. 320281[/snapback] With the steelers that is 6 teams that have really gone from one good coach to the next. What is your point? I see the Bills have gone from one poor coach to another and yet again to another. I think Wade was the best of our coaches after Levy. In fact if he wasn't stubborn, I think Wade would have our best option still.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 With the steelers that is 6 teams that have really gone from one good coach to the next. What is your point? I see the Bills have gone from one poor coach to another and yet again to another. I think Wade was the best of our coaches after Levy. In fact if he wasn't stubborn, I think Wade would have our best option still. 320284[/snapback] What? The Steelers, MAYBE the Titans (although again they never won it) and the 49ers have had two in a row, and no GM has chosen two in a row. Where are these six teams? The coaches may have been good on other teams but they didnt perform for the team they were hired for. the point is that it's difficult to pick a good coach and no GM had chosen two in a row. In other words, hit or miss.
VABills Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 What? The Steelers, MAYBE the Titans (although again they never won it) and the 49ers have had two in a row, and no GM has chosen two in a row. Where are these six teams? The coaches may have been good on other teams but they didnt perform for the team they were hired for. the point is that it's difficult to pick a good coach and no GM had chosen two in a row. In other words, hit or miss. 320290[/snapback] I repeat: Broncos, and Pats had 2 out there their last three turn out damn well. Same could be said of the Rams and Bucs. Hell Indy has even had some good but not great ones all the way through. Plus steelers and you say titans (I don't) but that makes 7 then. I just think certain GM's and owners are better at it then others. Polian is one.
AKC Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Thats why mcnally was hired Also, shula and Johnson wasnt a bad duo either Oh, and what man ISNT a boob man? 320203[/snapback] The greatest concern going into the interview process was that Richard Speck was the favorite, but apparently that morning Greg chose a plunging neckline and REALLY gained the bosses attention!
NorCal Aaron Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Where was the highly successful coach who retired followed by a good choice for his successor? You're right about Walsh and Seifert though, although I believe Walsh handpicked his successor rather than the same GM making two good consecutive picks. 320273[/snapback] Walsh was coach and GM during his tenure with the Niners. Debartolo gave him both duties when he (walsh) left Stanford for the NFL.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 I repeat:Broncos, and Pats had 2 out there their last three turn out damn well. Same could be said of the Rams and Bucs. Hell Indy has even had some good but not great ones all the way through. Plus steelers and you say titans (I don't) but that makes 7 then. I just think certain GM's and owners are better at it then others. Polian is one. 320299[/snapback] I repeat. No one can pick two in a row. Hit-miss-hit-miss. If you're calling coaches with .500 records on the team they coached and fired after two seasons "good" like Wade Phillips, or Chuck Knox who was 15-33 in his three year stint with the Rams, or Jim Mora (32-32) Lindy Infante (12-20) and Ted Marchibroda (21-27), I am really not sure why I am in this discussion.
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