Doc Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, BillStime said: Any idiot can claim he/she was influenced by someone else to avoid responsibility. That doesn't mean who they're blaming actually has blame. Nice apples to oranges comparison. But by all means, prove where Trump told them to enter the Capitol.
WideNine Posted June 9, 2021 Author Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Fauci knew we were doing Sars research inside that lab and lied about until he was forced to admit by Rand Paul. Fauci is more politician than scientist at this point and while it was a new situation he was not upfront about it from the get go. What is it with you defending a guy who knowing that a lab had issues with security and leaks would do research on Sars there? Fauci did not know, and no one knows for sure as China will not release actual records and probably never will.... now. Fauci and others knew that the best way to get investigators into China with boots on the ground where they can dig for more info was not to go public and shame them right out of the gate. It serves no purpose in getting to the truth as they would just lock down the area and access to interviews and records so yes Timmy, there is a political component to serving in an official capacity as a health services representative of our government. I have always said that a lab leak is a plausible theory (you can search my earliest post on this topic). Although still not proven, is has always (in my mind) been as viable a source for the pandemic as a wet-market zoonotic leap. Those "lab leaks" have happened in the past with SARs and other viruses being studied and there is not a clear match for viral Covid-19 DNA signature in tested animals to date as was found with Camels in the case of MERS. Add to that logic the fact that they were studying very similar viruses at the Wuhan lab, they were using lax protection protocols, and like many others they seemed unaware of the danger of aerosol transmission and asymptomatic spreading. To my way of thinking a lab worker could have easily been infected and interacted with people for weeks before falling noticeably ill so of course any person (not in a position to be a spokesperson for the US government) would have to consider a lab leak as a plausible possibility. This is not anything new, and does nothing to absolve Trump and our government's abysmal handling of the pandemic once Pandora's box was opened. Pointing the finger at China and their handling of the whole affair did not serve much of a purpose other than deflecting from the US lack of preparedness and clumsy response and was effective at getting China to purge records and lock up the smoking guns. I do think Trump was brutally if not clumsily honest about the WHO being too cozy with China - the same could be said of a lot of organizations where China pours money into them to buy influence. Personally, I still lean towards lab leak even sans definitive proof just because of the circumstantial evidence and Occam's razor. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, WideNine said: Wallace who actually has some journalistic integrity. I actually enjoy watching him grill slimey politicians from either side of the aisle. Definitely agree with this. He actually seems to be a journalist and not a cheerleader like the rest of his network for Rs and all the rest of MSM for the Ds.
WideNine Posted June 9, 2021 Author Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: There's no hypocrisy. Again, Fauci is the expert, not Trump. And Fauci said that Trump listened to him. Therefore... You honestly believe that Trump takes the advice of any "experts" that dare contradict his alternate "reality" including Fauci? If you followed the political rhetoric as a timeline it started with Trump listens to me early in 2020, to Trump trying to throw Fauci under the bus, to November where Trump had not attended a task force briefing in 5 months, to Fauci saying Pence listens to him but he is like the skunk at the picnic. So yes, once upon a time Fauci said those words. That is like saying, "you said your wife listens to you". Sure, for two years right after we were married and before our messy public divorce... He scrapped regular Covid briefings because Fauci dared to contradict his kindergarten-level understanding of medical science (that really isn't fair to some kindergartners). He regularly targeted Fauci on social media trying to gauge support for his transparent desire to fire him outright. He snubbed pandemic precautions and then caught Covid-19 and instead of letting his dumb ass expire on the table with some sunlight, a bottle of bleach, and a healthy dose of malaria medicine which would have been a merciful thing for this country, he received a cocktail of anti-viral drugs, off-label antibody treatment, and supplements: Dexamethasone, Remdesivir, and Regeneron's experimental monoclonal antibody which was still in clinical trials. Did he learn anything from his narrow escape via access to drugs and treatment most Americans would never have? No. The dumbass left treatment and ripped off his mask to double-down on the dumb and he appointed a freaking radiologist (the guys that know how to read X-Rays, MRI, and PET scans) to lead his Covid response task force - that is like going to a podiatrist for a brain tumor.
Doc Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, WideNine said: You honestly believe that Trump takes the advice of any "experts" that dare contradict his alternate "reality" including Fauci? If you followed the political rhetoric as a timeline it started with Trump listens to me early in 2020, to Trump trying to throw Fauci under the bus, to November where Trump had not attended a task force briefing in 5 months, to Fauci saying Pence listens to him but he is like the skunk at the picnic. So yes, once upon a time Fauci said those words. That is like saying, "you said your wife listens to you". Sure, for two years right after we were married and before our messy public divorce... He scrapped regular Covid briefings because Fauci dared to contradict his kindergarten-level understanding of medical science (that really isn't fair to some kindergartners). He regularly targeted Fauci on social media trying to gauge support for his transparent desire to fire him outright. He snubbed pandemic precautions and then caught Covid-19 and instead of letting his dumb ass expire on the table with some sunlight, a bottle of bleach, and a healthy dose of malaria medicine which would have been a merciful thing for this country, he received a cocktail of anti-viral drugs, off-label antibody treatment, and supplements: Dexamethasone, Remdesivir, and Regeneron's experimental monoclonal antibody which was still in clinical trials. Did he learn anything from his narrow escape via access to drugs and treatment most Americans would never have? No. The dumbass left treatment and ripped off his mask to double-down on the dumb and he appointed a freaking radiologist (the guys that know how to read X-Rays, MRI, and PET scans) to lead his Covid response task force - that is like going to a podiatrist for a brain tumor. You're right. He should have appointed the radiologist from the beginning...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 51 minutes ago, WideNine said: Fauci did not know, and no one knows for sure as China will not release actual records and probably never will.... now. Fauci and others knew that the best way to get investigators into China with boots on the ground where they can dig for more info was not to go public and shame them right out of the gate. It serves no purpose in getting to the truth as they would just lock down the area and access to interviews and records so yes Timmy, there is a political component to serving in an official capacity as a health services representative of our government. I have always said that a lab leak is a plausible theory (you can search my earliest post on this topic). Although still not proven, is has always (in my mind) been as viable a source for the pandemic as a wet-market zoonotic leap. Those "lab leaks" have happened in the past with SARs and other viruses being studied and there is not a clear match for viral Covid-19 DNA signature in tested animals to date as was found with Camels in the case of MERS. Add to that logic the fact that they were studying very similar viruses at the Wuhan lab, they were using lax protection protocols, and like many others they seemed unaware of the danger of aerosol transmission and asymptomatic spreading. To my way of thinking a lab worker could have easily been infected and interacted with people for weeks before falling noticeably ill so of course any person (not in a position to be a spokesperson for the US government) would have to consider a lab leak as a plausible possibility. This is not anything new, and does nothing to absolve Trump and our government's abysmal handling of the pandemic once Pandora's box was opened. Pointing the finger at China and their handling of the whole affair did not serve much of a purpose other than deflecting from the US lack of preparedness and clumsy response and was effective at getting China to purge records and lock up the smoking guns. I do think Trump was brutally if not clumsily honest about the WHO being too cozy with China - the same could be said of a lot of organizations where China pours money into them to buy influence. Personally, I still lean towards lab leak even sans definitive proof just because of the circumstantial evidence and Occam's razor. Occam's razor has always been clearly the lab leak and all the info in the past few months has made it all but definite. As for Fauci- you believe he was not informed in January of 2020 that he signed off on funding Sars research at that lab? We know now Fauci literally signed the document to make it happen. Yes he might have remembered it immediately but he certainly would have been reminded I short order when it was recognized as a Sars outbreak. Your belief that Trump could have stopped Cuomo from killing all those people is absurd and ignored all the evidence that is present.
WideNine Posted June 10, 2021 Author Posted June 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, Doc said: You're right. He should have appointed the radiologist from the beginning... You are right. For Trump's level of idiocy, probably does not matter who was advising him.
Doc Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, WideNine said: You are right. For Trump's level of idiocy, probably does not matter who was advising him. After the disaster that was Fauci, yeah, anyone would have done no worse. But virtually no one else had the hand Fauci did in helping to create the virus, and therefore pandemic. Edited June 10, 2021 by Doc
WideNine Posted June 10, 2021 Author Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Doc said: After the disaster that was Fauci, yeah, anyone would have done no worse. But virtually no one else had the hand Fauci did in helping to create the virus, and therefore pandemic. Yes the NIH funds general health and virus research at various labs around the globe. In 2014 3.7 million worth went to the EcoHealth Org as a grant. They then subsequently provided 600k of that to Wuhan. Do you even know what the NIH budget was in 2014? 31.331 billion dollars with over 10,269 competing RPGs (Research Project Grants). This overall funding was approved in 2014 when the GOP held the Senate majority and both sides of the aisle felt more research into potential pandemic viruses like SARS was a good idea. As Fauci put it, “a very minor collaboration as part of a subcontract of a grant,” and he (Rand) Paul conflated that with the claim that “therefore we were involved in creating the virus, which is the most ridiculous, majestic leap I’ve ever heard of.” Fauci also said he wasn’t convinced that the coronavirus developed naturally. “I think that we should continue to investigate what went on in China until we find out to the best of our ability exactly what happened.” In 2014 the NIH responded to alarms over GOF viral research and placed a moratorium on such efforts. Even then I am not sure the moratorium had any teeth for enforcement or stopped GOF research against viruses harvested from the "wild". https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/us-halts-funding-new-risky-virus-studies-calls-voluntary-moratorium Now if you want to question funding any viral pathogen research in China where the US always has limited oversight for any endeavor, that kind of a policy re-think I could get behind. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/ I personally think that the Wuhan lab was performing GOF on the original Covid virus strain which is monumentally dumb unless you have very strict protocols in place like you see at the CDC labs in NC and even then I am not sure the risks of helping nature find a better way to kill us is worth the alleged gains for virology research. The Wuhan Institute was already on shakey ground in regards to safety protocols, they had no business doing any GOF research there. I doubt we will ever be able to prove anything now. Records in China have likely all been purged along with any suspect memories or embarrassing witnesses. Edited June 10, 2021 by WideNine
Big Blitz Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 Does the OP realize this thread and story completely shreds and debunks the Left's cute Big Lie that the insurrection was Trump's fault? Spent the last, where are we now, 5 months blaming Trump and something called Cue-Anon for inciting violence......mocks guy for trying to use Fox News as his inspiration for rioting, making it perfectly clear that he is responsible for his own actions. /Thread
WideNine Posted June 10, 2021 Author Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Does the OP realize this thread and story completely shreds and debunks the Left's cute Big Lie that the insurrection was Trump's fault? Spent the last, where are we now, 5 months blaming Trump and something called Cue-Anon for inciting violence......mocks guy for trying to use Fox News as his inspiration for rioting, making it perfectly clear that he is responsible for his own actions. /Thread ...we have absolved Trump for his lies and outrageous conspiracy theories about a stolen election which fueled the insurrection? When did that happen in this thread? If it had been a democrat incumbent that had pulled half the election interference stunts Trump pulled I doubt you would have had such a short, faulty memory, or such an abundance of forgiveness.
Big Blitz Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, WideNine said: ...we have absolved Trump for his lies and outrageous conspiracy theories about a stolen election which fueled the insurrection? When did that happen in this thread? If it had been a democrat incumbent that had pulled half the election interference stunts Trump pulled I doubt you would have had such a short, faulty memory, or such an abundance of forgiveness. If Fox News *rhetoric* isn't responsible for your actions, neither is Trump's. /Thread
WideNine Posted June 10, 2021 Author Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: If Fox News *rhetoric* isn't responsible for your actions, neither is Trump's. /Thread A President of the US should not be held responsible for what he says or what he posts online or any of the fallout that results from those actions? So that is your position? Interesting. Edited June 10, 2021 by WideNine
Big Blitz Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 9 hours ago, WideNine said: A President of the US should not be held responsible for what he says or what he posts online or any of the fallout that results from those actions? So that is your position? Interesting. My position is no one's rhetoric is responsible for the actions of others. Holding someone responsible for what they say is something totally different and as per your original post, that does not mean for the actions of others.
Doc Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 So Trump should be held accountable for his words/actions, but Fauci...shouldn't? Interesting.
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