Doug Whaley puts full onus of EJ Manuel pick on Buddy Nix; believes he should have been a 3rd/4th round pick

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree with most of this. 

 

Brandon Beane was a rookie GM when he came to Buffalo. A rookie learning as he goes and together with McD built the team we see today...a super bowl contender! 

 

The Bills were in cap hell from the Whaley / Nix era to start. Rex Ryan took the best defensive line in the league and neutered it with his moronic scheme. The defense needed rebuilding. The offense needed rebuilding. The O line. The receiving corps. The Buffalo Bills were desperate for a franchise QB!

 

Didn't Brandon Beane just with NFL executive of the year by both Sporting News and the Pro Football Writers of America? The only other Bills GM to accomplish that was Bill Polian. 

 

The man found QB Josh Allen who is the very best QB of that 2018 QB class. Better than #1 overall in Baker Mayfield. Better than #3 overall in Sam Darnold. Better than Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson. 

 

Unlike the Jets GM, Beane build a solid offensive structure around Josh Allen so he could succeed. Sam Darnold who was just jettisoned by the Jets. A wasted 3rd round overall pick.

 

Frankly, who shivs a git what Beane did or didn't do in his rookie season, 2017. The Bills still made the playoffs that year and also made the playoffs in 2019, 2020.

 

The Bills were just in the 2020 AFC Championship game. 

 

How many players are still on the roster from the Nix / Whaley era? Hughes?

Thank you... This is spot on. Slamming a GM for his faults and ignoring his many more victories and taking things out of context makes me ill.  Spot on reply... Thank you!

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah Nix came out the box firing blanks..........unfortunately, so did Beane.

 

The differences.........Beane had a capable HC in place........he had a better talent base(as I said at the time they took a 10-6 team to camp in 2017)..........and most important of all he went out and got a QB right away.    

 

Nix made the excuse that he wanted to build the roster up before taking his swing at a franchise QB........now granted,  he and Whaley left better talent behind than Jauron/Brandon had for Nix but you don't put off getting your QB.    

Unfortunately?  Is this some kind of sick sarcasm? Without Beane this team would not be anywhere near as good and as stacked ...

 

This is a horrible take... unfortunately  so did Beane? where is the puke bucket

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:13 PM, YoloinOhio said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/former-bills-gm-doug-whaley-puts-full-onus-for-ej-manuel-pick-on-buddy-nix/article_ad90009e-c548-11eb-97b4-4bb8882a4586.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

If you're going to hand over the reigns to Whaley, at least let him draft the guy he decides he sinks or swims with. EJ Manuel lost him the game before it even began. Not only did it ruin his job, but it probably cost him his career as well. He basically took a giant **** and left everyone else to clean it up. Thanks, buddy. 😒

 

You almost can't blame him for doing the Sammy Watkins trade up. Doug Whaley was throwing the GM version of a Hail Mary. Khalil Mack would of most likely been the pick if Whaley had any type of job security, but he swung for the home run instead. A player he thought could contribute right away and cover up for that *** stain of a 1st round QB. 

 

You have to give credit where credit is due and admit Buddy Nix did a excellent job of getting some actual top-tier talent to Buffalo again. He hit on a lot of high 1st & 2nd rounders such as Marcell Dareus, Stephon Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, (who played a huge part in drafting Josh Allen) Paul Poslunsny, etc. As well as some decent late-rounders/UDFAs like Nigel Bradham, Arthur Moats, David Nelson, etc.

 

I think Buddy Nix's biggest acquisition and defining move as Buffalo Bills GM was the signing of Mario Williams. People laughed when Buffalo was rumored to be one of the many teams after him. At the time, Buffalo was one of the worst (if not THE worst) free agent destination and the butt of many jokes between players.

 

After an intense bidding war, Buddy Nix pulled off one of the least expected moves of all time and signed Super Mario to a massive contract worth 100 million through 6 years w/ 50 guaranteed making if the most money ever spent on a defensive free agent. It shocked not only Buffalo, but the entire sports world as well.

 

People can debate whether they think the signing was worth it or not, but here's my take. He put up some great production while he was here and that defensive line I'm convinced is the best of all time, but the move to acquire Williams was much more than that. I think it broke down the free agent barrier and greatly improved the national perception of Buffalo being a desirable free agent destination. It paved the way for many more signings to come in the future so I'm thankful to Buddy Nix for that.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I must include the Kelvin Sheppard/Jerry Hughes swap from Indianapolis. Besides the Mario signing, this is a close #2 for best Buddy Nix move. Jerry Hughes was not exactly a BUST at the time, but he was stuck behind Dwight Freeney & Robert Mathis. The trade wasn't huge news and fans were just hoping to get some kind of value out of the wasted 3rd rounder from Sheppard. Everyone knows the ending to this story. The Colts got absolutely fleeced and Jerry Hughes is a potential future Wall of Famer and still playing! 💯  One of my favorite players and only jersey I own. 🙏 God bless 'em. 

 

All in all, if football wasn't a completely QB driven league like it is now then Nix would be an amazing GM. 😅

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[soflabillsfan1]

Doug Whaley is a bum.  I knew it from the beginning.  I was told many times on the old board that if we fired him, he'd have another NFL job the next day. Wrong wrong wrong

[Rico]

46 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

If you're going to hand over the reigns to Whaley, at least let him draft the guy he decides he sinks or swims with. EJ Manuel lost him the game before it even began. Not only did it ruin his job, but it probably cost him his career as well. He basically took a giant **** and left everyone else to clean it up. Thanks, buddy. 😒

 

You almost can't blame him for doing the Sammy Watkins trade up. Doug Whaley was throwing the GM version of a Hail Mary. Khalil Mack would of most likely been the pick if Whaley had any type of job security, but he swung for the home run instead. A player he thought could contribute right away and cover up for that *** stain of a 1st round QB. 

 

You have to give credit where credit is due and admit Buddy Nix did a excellent job of getting some actual top-tier talent to Buffalo again. He hit on a lot of high 1st & 2nd rounders such as Marcell Dareus, Stephon Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, (who played a huge part in drafting Josh Allen) Paul Poslunsny, etc. As well as some decent late-rounders/UDFAs like Nigel Bradham, Arthur Moats, David Nelson, etc.

 

I think Buddy Nix's biggest acquisition and defining move as Buffalo Bills GM was the signing of Mario Williams. People laughed when Buffalo was rumored to be one of the many teams after him. At the time, Buffalo was one of the worst (if not THE worst) free agent destination and the butt of many jokes between players.

 

After an intense bidding war, Buddy Nix pulled off one of the least expected moves of all time and signed Super Mario to a massive contract worth 100 million through 6 years w/ 50 guaranteed making if the most money ever spent on a defensive free agent. It shocked not only Buffalo, but the entire sports world as well.

 

People can debate whether they think the signing was worth it or not, but here's my take. He put up some great production while he was here and that defensive line I'm convinced is the best of all time, but the move to acquire Williams was much more than that. I think it broke down the free agent barrier and greatly improved the national perception of Buffalo being a desirable free agent destination. It paved the way for many more signings to come in the future so I'm thankful to Buddy Nix for that.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I must include the Kelvin Sheppard/Jerry Hughes swap from Indianapolis. Besides the Mario signing, this is a close #2 for best Buddy Nix move. Jerry Hughes was not exactly a BUST at the time, but he was stuck behind Dwight Freeney & Robert Mathis. The trade wasn't huge news and fans were just hoping to get some kind of value out of the wasted 3rd rounder from Sheppard. Everyone knows the ending to this story. The Colts got absolutely fleeced and Jerry Hughes is a potential future Wall of Famer and still playing! 💯  One of my favorite players and only jersey I own. 🙏 God bless 'em. 

 

All in all, if football wasn't a completely QB driven league like it is now then Nix would be an amazing GM. 😅

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for correctly crediting Nix for the Hughes trade. Some serious revisionist history from the old Whaley fanboys was pushed in here for a long time.

[Rico]

42 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

Doug Whaley is a bum.  I knew it from the beginning.  I was told many times on the old board that if we fired him, he'd have another NFL job the next day. Wrong wrong wrong

Russ Brandon was also supposed to be able to have his choice of pro sports President jobs if he wanted. 
 

Sorry @Kirby Jackson.  

[Jauronimo]

On 6/4/2021 at 2:28 PM, GoBills808 said:

I think they probably got the best of a really bad bunch tbh

 

 

Dude, they missed out on Glennon.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

59 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

Doug Whaley is a bum.  I knew it from the beginning.  I was told many times on the old board that if we fired him, he'd have another NFL job the next day. Wrong wrong wrong

NFL ≠ National Football League.

NFL = 'not for long' in Whaley's case.

[Jauronimo]

On 6/4/2021 at 2:44 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Zing!  
 

He was lying then or lying now.  Pick one.

I would like to see a poll of how many of you throw your boss and organization or yourself under the bus in your media facing roles.  

 

Whaley actually ended his NFL career by throwing the Pegula's under the bus and admitting that he as GM has no actual power and he was roundly mocked.  Now the fanbase is wishing he had publicly admitted his Asst GM role was preparing an old man's oatmeal and he was never on board with our 1st round draft pick.

[TheFunPolice]

My favorite Buddy Nix quote of all time came from one of his sparring sessions on WGR with Howard Simon where they were trying to get him to admit that the team needed a QB:

 

"We can just let this thing go dead..."

 

Second only to him kicking off his introductory press conference as GM by saying that nobody ever accused him of being the smartest person in the room and that he hadn't really thought of being a GM. 

 

The Bills were a joke back then. We've come a LONG way. 

 

I'll say this for Buddy Nix: he is a genuine guy who is pretty straightforward. Doug Whaley has done a number of totally unprofessional things for a guy in a senior position, this being the latest. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Arm of Harm]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I would like to see a poll of how many of you throw your boss and organization or yourself under the bus in your media facing roles.  

 

Whaley actually ended his NFL career by throwing the Pegula's under the bus and admitting that he as GM has no actual power and he was roundly mocked.  Now the fanbase is wishing he had publicly admitted his Asst GM role was preparing an old man's oatmeal and he was never on board with our 1st round draft pick.

 

Except that he was on board with the Manuel pick. Fully. Totally. 100% completely. His current claims or implications to the contrary are an attempt to rewrite history.

 

At the time Whaley was GM, I remember being convinced that Manuel was not the answer, and hoping that at least some part of Whaley agreed with me. Even some small shred of evidence would have been welcome. But no. There was nothing. All the evidence pointed to Whaley being convinced Manuel was the answer.  It was a very frustrating time to be a Bills fan.

 

If Whaley wanted to be honest, if he'd wanted to do the right thing, he'd say, "You know what? My glowing evaluation of Manuel was a big reason why Nix chose to draft him in the first round. Once I became GM, I was convinced Manuel was the answer. I was wrong." That's it. That's all he had to say. I personally wouldn't hire him as GM if I was an owner, because the Manuel bust is not the type of mistake a competent GM would make. I'd consider him as a pro personnel director, at least if I respected his character. Which I do not.

 

[Jerry Jabber]

Whaley did a very good job in free agency, but no so much in the draft.

[Nihilarian]

The thing that most fans don't get about the Sammy Watkins pick is that the kid made most of his college receiving yards from screen plays...exactly how often did the Bills call screen plays on offense at that time? Let me answer, very little to none.

 

The Bills scouting dept., Whaley, Brandon fell into that old fail of watching highlights over and over while not understanding the fit in the offense. 

 

The thing that really gets me is that right after drafting Watkins with the #4 overall pick in 2014, the Bills announced that they were still looking for that big, tall red zone receiving threat. 

 

HELLO!  WR Mike Evans, 6' 5" 231 lbs drafted with the 7th pick In 2014. In 2013 Evans, against Alabama caught seven passes for 279 yards. (a school record) Against Auburn 11 receptions for 287 yards, 4 TDs. 

 

Holy freaking crap were the Bills FO with Whaley, Nix, Brandon totally clueless on what they were doing during that time of Buffalo Bills history. 

 

 

On another note, Nix gets credit for the Jerry Hughes trade...and yet the Colts GM at the time was desperate to get rid of his predecessor, Bill Polian's last first round pick. That Colts GM, Ryan Grigson picked up the phone and called Buffalo to initiate that trade...and not the other way around. Grigson was in such a hurry to trade away Hughes that he accepted LBer Kelvin Shepard, a third round pick straight up for a #1 pick in Hughes. 

 

Buddy Nix was a 70 year old retired scout when Buffalo hired him out of retirement to be the new Bills GM and should have never been an NFL GM.

 

And some Bills fans want to give Brandon Beane crap over some miss fires in his rookie season as GM.  Look at the current team!

Trading up and drafting Josh Allen who just broke the Buffalo Bills record for passing yards in a season. Trading a #1 pick for Diggs...who for the first time ever in Buffalo Bills history led the league in receptions, receiving yards in 2020! 

 

The man is a NFL football wizard who makes Merlin look weak. Trading Tyrod Taylor to Cleveland for a 3rd round pick! 

[Arm of Harm]

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The thing that most fans don't get about the Sammy Watkins pick is that the kid made most of his college receiving yards from screen plays...exactly how often did the Bills call screen plays on offense at that time? Let me answer, very little to none.

 

The Bills scouting dept., Whaley, Brandon fell into that old fail of watching highlights over and over while not understanding the fit in the offense. 

 

The thing that really gets me is that right after drafting Watkins with the #4 overall pick in 2014, the Bills announced that they were still looking for that big, tall red zone receiving threat. 

 

HELLO!  WR Mike Evans, 6' 5" 231 lbs drafted with the 7th pick In 2014. In 2013 Evans, against Alabama caught seven passes for 279 yards. (a school record) Against Auburn 11 receptions for 287 yards, 4 TDs. 

 

Holy freaking crap were the Bills FO with Whaley, Nix, Brandon totally clueless on what they were doing during that time of Buffalo Bills history. 

 

 

On another note, Nix gets credit for the Jerry Hughes trade...and yet the Colts GM at the time was desperate to get rid of his predecessor, Bill Polian's last first round pick. That Colts GM, Ryan Grigson picked up the phone and called Buffalo to initiate that trade...and not the other way around. Grigson was in such a hurry to trade away Hughes that he accepted LBer Kelvin Shepard, a third round pick straight up for a #1 pick in Hughes. 

 

Buddy Nix was a 70 year old retired scout when Buffalo hired him out of retirement to be the new Bills GM and should have never been an NFL GM.

 

And some Bills fans want to give Brandon Beane crap over some miss fires in his rookie season as GM.  Look at the current team!

Trading up and drafting Josh Allen who just broke the Buffalo Bills record for passing yards in a season. Trading a #1 pick for Diggs...who for the first time ever in Buffalo Bills history led the league in receptions, receiving yards in 2020! 

 

The man is a NFL football wizard who makes Merlin look weak. Trading Tyrod Taylor to Cleveland for a 3rd round pick! 

 

I agree with everything you've written, with the possible exception of the bolded.

 

Suppose you were to show a half full glass to a group of Bills fans. Responses to this would fall into one of three categories:

 

"The glass is empty."

"The glass is so full it's overflowing!"

"The glass is half full."

 

In a perfect world all responses would fall into that third category, but Bills fans don't always do well with moderation. For many it's either all or nothing.

 

With McDermott and Beane, the glass is maybe about 75% full. If we could get it to about 90%, we'd beat the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game. It's perfectly reasonable for posters to talk about opportunities for improvement, whether that's wasted cap space on guys like Murphy and Addison, disappointing draft picks such as Ford and Zay Jones, bad run blocking by the interior OL, or flaws in the coaching scheme which allowed the Kansas City offense to rip the Bills defense to shreds. In no way does any of that detract from the things McDermott and Beane have done well, starting with their decision to draft Josh Allen.

[Patrick Duffy]

imo the EJ pick was on both of them since both Nix/Whaley were the ones with the most power at that time as far as the draft goes. Anyways, that class was a downright awful QB class. None of the QB's in that class should have been picked before the 5th round, and that statement is not hindsight for me. I was never a believer in Geno myself....especially EJ.

 

Although I could/can see why a team would have more likely taken a shot by with Geno. Still wouldn't have picked him no where near the 1st or 2nd round. Back then I could see using a 3rd at best. But EJ man, lol.....I for sure didn't like that pick. Especially in the 1st round. I get Bills were desperate for a QB in those days and understand wanting to take a swing due to the QB,s were (imo one of the worst, if not the worst) classes maybe ever. But was really bad to use a 1st rounder on him.

 

Anyways, glad those days are over. Water under the bridge now. I'd go through it all again knowing Bills got a player like Josh Allen.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

Unfortunately?  Is this some kind of sick sarcasm? Without Beane this team would not be anywhere near as good and as stacked ...

 

This is a horrible take... unfortunately  so did Beane? where is the puke bucket

 

 

I've given Beane plenty of props but the fact remains that he had a VERY poor start in pro personnel.      The money they wasted then is costing them now.    They have  their QB on a rookie contract and yet they are in a much tighter cap spot than they should be.    This has prevented them from making big moves this offseason.    They are going to have to bridge the gap with KC and try to stay ahead of the rest of the pack with what they have and the modest additions they've made.     It can be done.   New England did it that way for most of Brady's last dozen years with the team.    

[Albany,n.y.]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah Nix came out the box firing blanks..........unfortunately, so did Beane.

 

The differences.........Beane had a capable HC in place........he had a better talent base(as I said at the time they took a 10-6 team to camp in 2017)..........and most important of all he went out and got a QB right away.    

 

Nix made the excuse that he wanted to build the roster up before taking his swing at a franchise QB........now granted,  he and Whaley left better talent behind than Jauron/Brandon had for Nix but you don't put off getting your QB.    

 

 

If you go back through the archives, you can find posts of people who were adamant that a team has to build its OL before going for a QB.  Others were totally against using a 1st round pick on a QB.  Many times I would reply that you get the QB 1st & build around him and the best place to find him is in the 1st round of the draft.  I was glad that when Beane came here he stated his intention to do exactly what people on my side of the arguments wanted.  

[Patrick Duffy]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I've given Beane plenty of props but the fact remains that he had a VERY poor start in pro personnel.      The money they wasted then is costing them now.    They have  their QB on a rookie contract and yet they are in a much tighter cap spot than they should be.    This has prevented them from making big moves this offseason.    They are going to have to bridge the gap with KC and try to stay ahead of the rest of the pack with what they have and the modest additions they've made.     It can be done.   New England did it that way for most of Brady's last dozen years with the team.    

Beane has had his share of bad decisions and likely could have done more at first with some of the pretty decent players that was left for him after Whaley/Rex and co. departed. Not sure how much confidence some of those players had in going forward with Bills seeing how things went to downhill so bad. Myabe that could have played a part in him re-doing the roster the way they did.

 

I don't know, but they also wanted their own guys and whatnot..In any event, the biggest thing that makes Beane is Josh Allen. And will always be Josh Allen for the most part. But still, I give him credit though, he has done a very good job between he and coach MCD with changing culture/etc and have created a very tough team to beat.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

If you go back through the archives, you can find posts of people who were adamant that a team has to build its OL before going for a QB.  Others were totally against using a 1st round pick on a QB.  Many times I would reply that you get the QB 1st & build around him and the best place to find him is in the 1st round of the draft.  I was glad that when Beane came here he stated his intention to do exactly what people on my side of the arguments wanted.  

 

Getting the QB as soon as possible should have been common sense.    Watching them march Edwards back out there and hearing the excuse that they were going to use "that season" to evaluate the roster was disheartening.    That roster had been evaluated for 3 years prior.   All they needed to do was watch the tape.

 

But there are always fans who want to draft a RB in round 1 or nod in agreement when a Marv Levy says that he plans to draft for need.

[Nihilarian]

When you have a dysfunctional front office and coaching staff...why on earth would a new regime want to watch old tape of that circus side show?

 

I can understand why McD went forward with Tyrod as starting QB to see what they had with him under their new coaches.

 

What we learned was... that nobody is safe if you don't do a good enough job. New coaches fired and replaced. Many, many players let go and replaced. 

 

When the GM saw that a #1 pick wasn't going his job in Buffalo... they shipped him out. They didn't attempt to keep making things work with the wrong players. A #2 pick in Zay Jones, buh bye!

 

The list is almost endless of Bills players that have been jettisoned to make room for new players that work hard, make plays and buy into the system. 

 

Hence, a trip to the AFC Championship game in 2020. I think we can expect more winning seasons under this regime. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/4/2021 at 4:23 PM, hmsmystic said:

Not sure I'm a fan of a Whaley going on record throwing Nix under the bus- leadership needs to take ownership of mistakes.  That said, he probably isn't making this up- at the time EJ wasn't regarded as a sure fire 1st round pick as I recall.

I'll never forget some of those 1st practices I got to attend at SJF college EJs rookie year.  EJ strolls out, Tom Selleck mustache and some swagger and I'm thinking- well-- maybe we got something here!  Then he proceeds to throw every other pass into the stands and we all knew then we were in trouble-- again.

Articles like this make me thankful even more for McBeane!

 

Not to toot my own horn, but I knew that guy was a bust within his first few games. He never looked fluid in his motions at all kind of like an Android imitating a quarterback. You know you're playing like crap when Kyle Orton comes in and looks like Peyton Manning.