HappyDays Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 I wish him luck. Unfortunately 3rd round picks don't get 3 years of development to show they can play. If he had shown any kind of progress last year the Bills might be more willing to be patient. 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2021 Author Posted June 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Just remember Knox never got a ton of chances in college - almost all of the throws in college went to WRs (they had some good ones). so I am not sure he knows what to make of himself at all. He is not a natural blocker, but got almost no practice at that in college- so he has to learn. He is not a natural route runner and catcher of the ball as he did not really do that in college with the WRs on the team. He got specific plays called that they knew would free him up - very limited block and then flare out type routes. Good points, good post, but I read this and I can't help thinking of the old Adam Ant song "Goody Two Shoes": You don't drink, don't smoke What do you do You don't drink, don't smoke What do you do The subtle innuendos follow There must be something inside In Knox case Don't block don't catch, What do you do Well you get my point Haven't heard or seen anything of Tommy Sweeney, wondering how he's doing.
Rochesterfan Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Good points, good post, but I read this and I can't help thinking of the old Adam Ant song "Goody Two Shoes": You don't drink, don't smoke What do you do You don't drink, don't smoke What do you do The subtle innuendos follow There must be something inside In Knox case Don't block don't catch, What do you do Well you get my point Haven't heard or seen anything of Tommy Sweeney, wondering how he's doing. Right now he is still all untapped potential. He improved in catching from year 1 to year 2. They totally changed his blocking as they went more to motion and h-back role to help with pass blocking. Lets hope that improves along with his catching and then you may have something - right now he is just untapped potential.
LABILLBACKER Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 Because nothing screams the size, shape and weight of a football like a ping pong ball. Yikes 1
MJS Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, maddenboy said: It seems like he is a tweener, who thinks his best chance in the NFL is to "make plays" instead of "make catches." Does he see himself as a fat wide receiver (Antonio Gates), or a skinny tight end (Jimmy Graham)? It seems like a true, natural tight end sees himself able to naturally do both. Always catch the ball first, and so big and strong that good things will always happen thereafter, whether he has to run past guys or over guys. And even falling like a sack of concrete is still an awesome result for a true TE mindset. Move the sticks, dominate the middle of the field. Jimmy Graham was always only a TE in name. He was basically a big WR.
Rochesterfan Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I wish him luck. Unfortunately 3rd round picks don't get 3 years of development to show they can play. If he had shown any kind of progress last year the Bills might be more willing to be patient. I disagree - many 3rd round picks get into year 3 to develop as long as they are showing progress and are doing what the staff want. It is this year that will determine if next year comes or not. For the Bills - both Singletary and Knox are 3rd year guys that will most likely get year 3 to show what they have learned. Neither had real serious competition brought in and both are being given the opportunity to be starters/role players on this team.
MJS Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Because nothing screams the size, shape and weight of a football like a ping pong ball. Yikes Hand-eye coordination is what he is training. Improving it does not require footballs. And it would absolutely help him. 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2021 Author Posted June 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Because nothing screams the size, shape and weight of a football like a ping pong ball. Yikes So in the NE game in 2019, Beasley struggled with catching a low pass and deflected it upward for an INT and a pick 6. After the game Daboll, who hadn't tact-ified himself yet, made a comment about "if the ball is a bit low we still have to catch it" or something to that effect that was clearly directed at Bease. The next week there was video of Beasley catching small balls that a member of the Bills staff was bouncing off the wall for him - might have been a tennis or racketball or something a little smaller - squash ball?. The point as I saw it was to help him train his eye and hone his eye-hand coordination to react quickly, not to simulate the weight shape and size of a football. I would imaging that ping-pong balls are probably very challenging to catch as they're so light, they're probably very easy to deflect if your hands aren't cleanly in the right place. 1
ticketssince61 Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Spent every day for 6 straight weeks in California with a hand-eye specialist, doing all sorts of drill work including catching ping-pong balls w/ all sorts of movement from a machine I would think catching footballs would be more relevant to improving his game! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reporter: Dawson - why did you drop the wide open pass Dawson: I thought it was a ping pong ball 1 1
Putin Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, MJS said: Knox is one of those players who can make insane catches, but also drops easy ones. To me, that means he is either over thinking things (since drops are probably on his mind), or he is not concentrating enough for the easy ones, as others have pointed out. I think his issues can be fixed. He actually caught a bunch of TD's at the end of the season and was one of our more consistent scoring threats. At this point, I would expect him to be the #1 TE on the depth chart unless the Bills trade for Ertz or someone similar. There are some posters on here who believe that he might not even make the team this year
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I disagree - many 3rd round picks get into year 3 to develop as long as they are showing progress and are doing what the staff want. It is this year that will determine if next year comes or not. For the Bills - both Singletary and Knox are 3rd year guys that will most likely get year 3 to show what they have learned. Neither had real serious competition brought in and both are being given the opportunity to be starters/role players on this team. If the rumors are true, the Bills are about to trade for Ertz. In that case they are basically admitting they aren't happy with Knox's progress last year. Beane said it publicly to the media before the draft. They aren't waiting around for Knox to hopefully develop. The team is too good to let a depth level player be a starter at an important position. I really hope the Ertz rumor is true. Edited June 4, 2021 by HappyDays 1
Rochesterfan Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, HappyDays said: If the rumors are true, the Bills are about to trade for Ertz. In that case they are basically admitting they aren't happy with Knox's progress last year. Beane said it publicly to the media before the draft. They aren't waiting around for Knox to hopefully develop. The team is too good to let a depth level player be a starter at an important position. I really hope the Ertz rumor is true. Maybe, but there have been rumors of an Ertz trade since well before the draft and they have not made the move. Maybe Ertz finally agrees to a significantly reduced deal and maybe the teams can come to an agreement, but until they do - even with a ton of very good, talented TEs available in FA and guys that have produced better than Ertz over the last couple of years - the Bills chose to sign Hollister as their FA TE and stick with Knox. They do not seem to be dying to get Ertz in here or the deal would be done - so to me it seems they are still waiting with Knox on development. Even if they bring Ertz in - there is a good chance that Knox sticks and they still wait on development and give him plenty of playing time. If they thought Ertz was the piece to push them over the edge the deal would be done - they are trying to get him at their cost and their deal and therefore that tells me that they see him as potentially a fit, but not something to waste big resources on (and that does not strike me as them admitting they can’t wait on Knox). Maybe as you said - Ertz is their guy and they don’t feel they can stick with Knox, but everything they have done this offseason points to them being comfortable enough with Knox that if needed he will be their starter again.
JESSEFEFFER Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, MJS said: Knox is one of those players who can make insane catches, but also drops easy ones. To me, that means he is either over thinking things (since drops are probably on his mind), or he is not concentrating enough for the easy ones, as others have pointed out. I think his issues can be fixed. He actually caught a bunch of TD's at the end of the season and was one of our more consistent scoring threats. At this point, I would expect him to be the #1 TE on the depth chart unless the Bills trade for Ertz or someone similar. when he is making a tough, contested catch he has shown some talent. When he has attempted catches where he is unsure of where the defenders are he has shown lapses. I think that describes a big portion of his drops. Edited June 4, 2021 by JESSEFEFFER
Dr.Sack Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 Knox has a tendency to look upfield before the bringing the ball into his hands and securing it to his body when he is out in space. I’ve seen him drop balls while moving and when standing still. He needs this type of training and some good stickum.
BigAl2526 Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: FWIW, in terms of budget player acquisitions at TE, I don't think the Bills could have made a better choice to "push" Knox than signing Jacob Hollister. He's been part of two championship-contending teams with top QB so he knows what effort and prep are required on a top team; he has prior connection and chemistry with Josh Allen from Wyo; and, in games where he's had the opportunity to take significant snaps, he's actually made a bit more of his opportunities than Knox in terms of Y/G and catch %. He doesn't apparently have the athletic upside that our experts seem to feel that Knox has, but he's solid. I don't think Hollister has the ability to be as physical as Knox can be. I don't think Hollister will win one of Kyle Brandt's weekly "Angry Run" awards like Knox did, but he has plenty of speed and quickness.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2021 Author Posted June 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said: I don't think Hollister has the ability to be as physical as Knox can be. I don't think Hollister will win one of Kyle Brandt's weekly "Angry Run" awards like Knox did, but he has plenty of speed and quickness. This is just my impression, I haven't watched Knox snap by snap. But I don't think Knox is that physical as a route-runner. He can be physical with stiff-arming people etc after a catch - but for every time he does that, seems like there are a number of times he gets jammed or held or just fails to gain separation. Cover1 called out a good arm-over move where he did gain separation on one play as unusual because "he's usually not that physical" My point is I'll take the contributions of a guy who runs a good route and gets open consistently over a guy who is Rambo occasionally and invisible much of the rest of the time 1
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: They do not seem to be dying to get Ertz in here or the deal would be done - so to me it seems they are still waiting with Knox on development. Even if they bring Ertz in - there is a good chance that Knox sticks and they still wait on development and give him plenty of playing time. If they thought Ertz was the piece to push them over the edge the deal would be done - they are trying to get him at their cost and their deal and therefore that tells me that they see him as potentially a fit, but not something to waste big resources on I think Beane just recognizes he has all the leverage in the trade and knows Roseman is going to cave eventually. Ertz isn't going to report to the team, they have no choice but to move on from him. They can release him for $8 million in dead cap, or they can take the best available trade offer and get something back for him. Beane knows it's just a matter of being patient. And I don't think Hollister was necessarily signed as just Kroft's replacement. I think he is legit competition for Knox. Based on the limited media reporting we have from OTAs, Hollister apparently looks pretty good and already has a connection going with Allen. Knox will have a chance to earn the #1 spot, or #2 if the Ertz trade happens, but they're not handing him anything.
Rochesterfan Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, HappyDays said: I think Beane just recognizes he has all the leverage in the trade and knows Roseman is going to cave eventually. Ertz isn't going to report to the team, they have no choice but to move on from him. They can release him for $8 million in dead cap, or they can take the best available trade offer and get something back for him. Beane knows it's just a matter of being patient. And I don't think Hollister was necessarily signed as just Kroft's replacement. I think he is legit competition for Knox. Based on the limited media reporting we have from OTAs, Hollister apparently looks pretty good and already has a connection going with Allen. Knox will have a chance to earn the #1 spot, or #2 if the Ertz trade happens, but they're not handing him anything. I agree - I think Hollister was brought in for 3 reasons: 1 - he has spent time blocking out of the H-back role - so he can help Knox, Gilliam, and Sweeney get better at it. 2 - he already has a connection to Josh and seems very smooth in the passing game - another teachable point 3 - He is a veteran presence and the coaching staff and FO want that veteran voice in each room I don’t think they are handing anything to Knox and Singletary, but I also don’t think they are actively and generally working hard to replace them either. Much like they are allowing Josh, Tremaine, Ed Oliver, Dane Jackson, Cody Ford, Phillips, etc to all continue to grow and earn playing time - they are doing the same thing with Knox and Singletary - continue to improve and earn the time or like everything else - we have guys coming up that will replace you.
strive_for_five_guy Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 14 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: It was - he talked about that last off season, but he as doing a lot of it on his own with just catching passes from a Juggs machine. It is why his catch percentage increased, but you still see lapses where he takes his eye off the ball and was turning upfield before securing the catch. I believe that was part of what they talked about getting someone external to connect the eyes and the hands so he is focused on the catch. Once he gets that - then the runs come. I said I believe the worst thing that happened to him was the notoriety that came with his angry run - he was always looking for that rather than the catch. Except that his catch percentage went down from year one to two. I’m all for pulling for him that he can improve his catching abilities, just very skeptical given that we heard the same story last offseason about the work he was doing to improve his catch rate, yet that WENT DOWN for him.
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