Hard Knox: Dawson Knox Watch

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

 

Video Clips where he's talking about it some here:

 

 

This might be the guy in question:

 

 

 

At least he's putting in effort, let's see if it shows results.  My personal belief with Dawson is that a lot of his problems have to do with focus and concentration, not so much hand-eye coordination but with taking his eye off the ball to think about his next moves.  But maybe this sort of training addresses that too, or maybe if his hand-eye coordination is better then he'll be able to spare the focus.

[billsfan1959]

I tend to agree, OP. It really feels as if his issues with drops are more about momentary lapses in focus and concentration, and less about hand-eye coordination. However, at least he is trying to improve and, intuitively, one would think focus / concentration would be an integral part of the training. I really like Knox and I believe he has all the physical tools to be a really good TE. I hope this training (and whatever else he may be doing to improve his catching consistency) translates into an improvement on the field. He really has to show a marked improvement this year.

[dorquemada]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

At least he's putting in effort, let's see if it shows results.  My personal belief with Dawson is that a lot of his problems have to do with focus and concentration, not so much hand-eye coordination but with taking his eye off the ball to think about his next moves.  But maybe this sort of training addresses that too, or maybe if his hand-eye coordination is better then he'll be able to spare the focus.

 

Agreed.  There was a  few times later in the season when you could see, in the split second the ball was in the air, that he had total concentration and wasn't going to drop the pass for love or money.  That TD against Baltimore (?) he wrapped his whole body around the ball while in the air and went down like a sack of concrete, but held on

[strive_for_five_guy]

Hmm 🤔, shouldn’t that have been his top focus last off-season too? 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Heck, I'm OK with it even if this training has a "placebo effect" of him believing he can catch better and then that allows him to actually catch better.

[Buffalo Boy]

5 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Agreed.  There was a  few times later in the season when you could see, in the split second the ball was in the air, that he had total concentration and wasn't going to drop the pass for love or money.  That TD against Baltimore (?) he wrapped his whole body around the ball while in the air and went down like a sack of concrete, but held on

    Actually, there were a few “ sack of concrete” catches by him last year that were stiff and ugly. I think he just isn’t as fluid and flexible as some guys and that is part of the problem.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I tend to agree, OP. It really feels as if his issues with drops are more about momentary lapses in focus and concentration, and less about hand-eye coordination. However, at least he is trying to improve and, intuitively, one would think focus / concentration would be an integral part of the training. I really like Knox and I believe he has all the physical tools to be a really good TE. I hope this training (and whatever else he may be doing to improve his catching consistency) translates into an improvement on the field. He really has to show a marked improvement this year.

 

Me three (Dawson Knox being at the head of the list of those hoping).

 

FWIW, in terms of budget player acquisitions at TE, I don't think the Bills could have made a better choice to "push" Knox than signing Jacob Hollister.  He's been part of two championship-contending teams with top QB so he knows what effort and prep are required on a top team; he has prior connection and chemistry with Josh Allen from Wyo; and, in games where he's had the opportunity to take significant snaps, he's actually made a bit more of his opportunities than Knox in terms of Y/G and catch %.  He doesn't apparently have the athletic upside that our experts seem to feel that Knox has, but he's solid.

5 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Hmm 🤔, shouldn’t that have been his top focus last off-season too? 

 

Well, for one thing, last off season a lot of things got shut down.  Maybe he wanted to travel to Cali and work with this guy, but the facility was shut down. 

 

For another, the right training or step isn't necessarily immediately obvious.  Knox said last year that he bought a Juggs machine and caught 200 balls a day, so it's not as though he wasn't trying to do anything to improve, maybe he and the Bills felt that was all he needed, but then after last season they and he decided he needed a different approach.

 

It could be sort of analogous to Josh Allen, where he worked and improved between his rookie and second season, but then decided in the off-season last year that a different, more extensive and comprehensive approach to upgrade his throwing was needed.

[Rochesterfan]

5 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Hmm 🤔, shouldn’t that have been his top focus last off-season too? 

 

It was - he talked about that last off season, but he as doing a lot of it on his own with just catching passes from a Juggs machine. 

 

It is why his catch percentage increased, but you still see lapses where he takes his eye off the ball and was turning upfield before securing the catch.

 

I believe that was part of what they talked about getting someone external to connect the eyes and the hands so he is focused on the catch.  Once he gets that - then the runs come.

 

I said I believe the worst thing that happened to him was the notoriety that came with his angry run - he was always looking for that rather than the catch.

[Solomon Grundy]

Can he return serve in terms of blocking?

[YattaOkasan]

31 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Agreed.  There was a  few times later in the season when you could see, in the split second the ball was in the air, that he had total concentration and wasn't going to drop the pass for love or money.  That TD against Baltimore (?) he wrapped his whole body around the ball while in the air and went down like a sack of concrete, but held on

Think it was the Colts game when Josh shotputted the ball to him.  He secured it and then just thud.  Our only offensive TD in the Ravens game was the screen to Diggs when we outnumbered them on the outside.

Edited June 3, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[Patrick Duffy]

43 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I tend to agree, OP. It really feels as if his issues with drops are more about momentary lapses in focus and concentration, and less about hand-eye coordination. However, at least he is trying to improve and, intuitively, one would think focus / concentration would be an integral part of the training. I really like Knox and I believe he has all the physical tools to be a really good TE. I hope this training (and whatever else he may be doing to improve his catching consistency) translates into an improvement on the field. He really has to show a marked improvement this year.

Yeah it's mostly at times he is trying to make a move or bigger play a little too quick before he has a good hold on the ball. He can get extra tough yards and bull doze players at times. Love that part of his game. But yeah, dude just got to make sure the ball is secure 1st.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Earlier comments on Hollister and Knox from Joe B and Matt F:

Quote

Jacob Hollister shows more twitch than the other TEs

After much offseason chatter, the Bills decided against bringing in a prominent veteran name at tight end to pair with third-year player Dawson Knox. Instead, the Bills issued a one-year deal to Jacob Hollister to provide a veteran presence on the roster, but not one that will immediately challenge Knox for the starting role. Hollister is an experienced player in his own right, having caught 66 passes over the last two seasons for Seattle. Hollister’s overall quickness and fluidity in the open field were immediately noticeable Tuesday, especially when watching consecutive reps with him, Knox and Tommy Sweeney.

 

What Hollister lacks in some size compared to Knox, he makes up for with athleticism. Knox was still relatively quick, but he doesn’t show the same type of downfield speed that Hollister showed on Tuesday. Hollister also has a prior connection with Allen when the two were teammates at Wyoming. Only on first glance of Tuesday’s OTAs, Hollister’s agility gives the Bills a little something different at the backup tight end role than what either Tyler Kroft or Lee Smith did in 2020. As long as Hollister stays healthy, he looks like he’s in a terrific position to make the 53-man roster without much difficulty. Beyond that, it’s a wait-and-see. Knox will likely get every opportunity to become the player they hoped he would be when the Bills drafted him in the third round. But Hollister’s experience, production and college connection with Allen, combined with that quickness, should be kept in mind if Knox begins to falter at all in 2021.

 

emphasis mine

[MJS]

Knox is one of those players who can make insane catches, but also drops easy ones. To me, that means he is either over thinking things (since drops are probably on his mind), or he is not concentrating enough for the easy ones, as others have pointed out.

 

I think his issues can be fixed. He actually caught a bunch of TD's at the end of the season and was one of our more consistent scoring threats.

 

At this point, I would expect him to be the #1 TE on the depth chart unless the Bills trade for Ertz or someone similar.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Knox is one of those players who can make insane catches, but also drops easy ones. To me, that means he is either over thinking things (since drops are probably on his mind), or he is not concentrating enough for the easy ones, as others have pointed out.

 

I think his issues can be fixed. He actually caught a bunch of TD's at the end of the season and was one of our more consistent scoring threats.

 

At this point, I would expect him to be the #1 TE on the depth chart unless the Bills trade for Ertz or someone similar.

 

To that last, absolutely.  But I think Hollister is showing some stuff that makes him an effective "shot across the bows" in case Knox doesn't show the development the team wants, not only in the passing game but as a blocker.

[maddenboy]

It seems like he is a tweener, who thinks his best chance in the NFL is to "make plays" instead of "make catches."

 

Does he see himself as a fat wide receiver (Antonio Gates), or a skinny tight end (Jimmy Graham)? 

 

It seems like a true, natural tight end sees himself able to naturally do both.  Always catch the ball first, and so big and strong that good things will always happen thereafter, whether he has to run past guys or over guys.  And even falling like a sack of concrete is still an awesome result for a true TE mindset.  Move the sticks, dominate the middle of the field.

Edited June 3, 2021 by maddenboy

[benderbender]

I dig the Hollister/Knox combo. I don't have sky high hopes of a Gronk/Hernandez type or even a overpriced new version of what NE is trying to reinstall with their pre owned new to you free agency sales event. Perhaps they can have just enough speed and hold their blocks just long enough to make the opposing defense actually bother to gameplay for our TE corps for a change. 

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I said I believe the worst thing that happened to him was the notoriety that came with his angry run - he was always looking for that rather than the catch.

 

Interesting point.  You could be right.  

[Doc]

Just do it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

I said I believe the worst thing that happened to him was the notoriety that came with his angry run - he was always looking for that rather than the catch.

 

That's actually an interesting point.  Not just for himself, but of course it lit up his teammates. 

 

I think Josh was affected by that a bit his rookie season - all the positive attention (notoriety if you will) from stiff arming or jumping over guys and it took him a while to get over it and process that as the QB, it's primarily his job to distribute the ball to let other people to make plays

 

Hopefully Knox will see the same growth: that it's primarily his job to catch whatever ball comes within an arms radius of him and hang onto it no matter what, THEN make his runs.

[Rochesterfan]

33 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

It seems like he is a tweener, who thinks his best chance in the NFL is to "make plays" instead of "make catches."

 

Does he see himself as a fat wide receiver (Antonio Gates), or a skinny tight end (Jimmy Graham)? 

 

It seems like a true, natural tight end sees himself able to naturally do both.  Always catch the ball first, and so big and strong that good things will always happen thereafter, whether he has to run past guys or over guys.  And even falling like a sack of concrete is still an awesome result for a true TE mindset.  Move the sticks, dominate the middle of the field.

 

Just remember Knox never got a ton of chances in college - almost all of the throws in college went to WRs (they had some good ones).  so I am not sure he knows what to make of himself at all.

 

He is not a natural blocker, but got almost no practice at that in college- so he has to learn.

 

He is not a natural route runner and catcher of the ball as he did not really do that in college with the WRs on the team.  He got specific plays called that they knew would free him up - very limited block and then flare out type routes.

 

TE is one of the hardest transitions from college because there is so much more expected of them on every play and they suddenly go from guys that are bigger than most LBs and as fast as most DBs to guys that are not elite with size or speed and need to find new ways to adapt.  They are suddenly asked to block blitzing LBs and DEs that are strong and have actual pass rush moves and in college it is more of a chip than full on blocking.

 

I think you really saw him in the second half of last year try to focus so much on the catches and not focus on the runs, but he still was not fluid in any of it. 
 

The good news is he is working on it - the bad news for him is that they brought in a guy that I believe is a better blocker and is already more fluid in his routes and also knows Josh from college.  
 

I really like what Hollister can bring especially out of the H-Back roll and I think he will be getting a lot of playing time if he stays healthy.  

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's actually an interesting point.  Not just for himself, but of course it lit up his teammates. 

 

I think Josh was affected by that a bit his rookie season - all the positive attention (notoriety if you will) from stiff arming or jumping over guys and it took him a while to get over it and process that as the QB, it's primarily his job to distribute the ball to let other people to make plays

 

Hopefully Knox will see the same growth: that it's primarily his job to catch whatever ball comes within an arms radius of him and hang onto it no matter what, THEN make his runs.

I agree and you still saw Josh do that several times and it led to some fumbles and I think he finally cleared his head and realized how much better it was to beat them with his arm - now that he has answers.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Rochesterfan