BADOLBILZ Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes he did, but don't bother Badol with facts if they disrupt his narrative. Narratives are way more important to some guys. DPOY is certainly wildly unlikely, but he's already playing very well and could certainly improve a lot more with Star in front of him again and as he gets more experience. You mean "facts" like the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production? Your ignorance of this "fact" is not a defense. Edmunds playoff production doesn't move the needle either...........it mostly just adds 4 more games to his very modest resume as a playmaker........4 more games to his running streaks of contests with no forced fumbles or interceptions........and adds just one sack and one TFL to his unimpressive raw numbers. You win postseason honors for game changing plays over the course of a season........plays that turn the ball over or cost the opponent both a down PLUS yardage. That's why DL and pass rushing LB's who get sacks and back 7 players who get interceptions and/or FF and RF win the award. But if you think Edmunds is an All Pro caliber MLB calling it "wildly" unlikely that he wins DPOY is a hell of a way of showing it. 1
Protocal69 Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Putin said: Why is that exactly ?? While Tremaine Edmunds has all the physical ability to be great he has no instinct for the position. Now if you told me he was switching to OLB then we would have a better chance. Regarding Ed Oliver I feel like he has also been playing out of position. With Star coming back and having another off-season I'm more optimistic regarding Ed Oliver turning the corner than Edmunds right now but they BOTH have something to prove in 2021 1 1
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You mean "facts" like the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production? Your ignorance of this "fact" is not a defense. Edmunds playoff production doesn't move the needle either...........it mostly just adds 4 more games to his very modest resume as a playmaker........4 more games to his running streaks of contests with no forced fumbles or interceptions........and adds just one sack and one TFL to his unimpressive raw numbers. You win postseason honors for game changing plays over the course of a season........plays that turn the ball over or cost the opponent both a down PLUS yardage. That's why DL and pass rushing LB's who get sacks and back 7 players who get interceptions and/or FF and RF win the award. But if you think Edmunds is an All Pro caliber MLB calling it "wildly" unlikely that he wins DPOY is a hell of a way of showing it. Quick, remind me. Did you say "He's never recovered a fumble and we're only counting regular season because the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production"? Or did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble"? On 6/3/2021 at 8:08 AM, BADOLBILZ said: He's never recovered a fumble. Yeah, that's what I thought. So, desperate sad justifications aside, the "fact" that I'm referring to is the one that you fumbled. The one you totally got wrong. Edmunds is generally considered a top ten guy at the position. And for good reason. That's why he twice made the Pro Bowl and it's why they exercised his fifth year option, and why exercising his fifth year option was never considered to be much of a question, except by the same few usual suspects on here. The DPOY prediction is meant to be a wildly unlikely one. I certainly don't consider it to be at all likely. Off-ball LBs win DPOY, but it does not happen often. Kuechly, Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Derrick Brooks, Singletary Randy Gradishar and Jack freaking Lambert. That's not a lot. I certainly wouldn't put any money on it no matter what odds I got. But is he likely to be a top ten ILB again? Yeah. Is he likely to improve a lot, especially with Star playing in front of him again? Yeah. He's young, smart and athletic and the team believes in him. And yeah it's wildly unlikely Edmunds gets DPOY. Except for Aaron Donald and maybe a group of six to ten other guys, it's wildly unlikely anyone else gets DPOY. You may not have noticed but they only give it to one guy out of half the NFL who are eligible. Edited June 4, 2021 by Thurman#1
Turk71 Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 On 6/3/2021 at 12:20 PM, GoBills808 said: Where did this poor in pass coverage come from lol Just guessing but it probably stems from the fact that he was not good in pass coverage. 115 passer rating when targeted. 4 tds surrendered on 60 targets 12.5 yds per catch 7 yards after catch/rec He was literally one of the worst MLB in the league at pass coverage. So that's probably where that came from. 1
GreggTX Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 Edmunds is a freak of nature. If the game ever really slows down for him, look out. He's not there yet, though.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 18 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Quick, remind me. Did you say "He's never recovered a fumble and we're only counting regular season because the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production"? Or did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble"? Yeah, that's what I thought. So, desperate sad justifications aside, the "fact" that I'm referring to is the one that you fumbled. The one you totally got wrong. Edmunds is generally considered a top ten guy at the position. And for good reason. That's why he twice made the Pro Bowl and it's why they exercised his fifth year option, and why exercising his fifth year option was never considered to be much of a question, except by the same few usual suspects on here. The DPOY prediction is meant to be a wildly unlikely one. I certainly don't consider it to be at all likely. Off-ball LBs win DPOY, but it does not happen often. Kuechly, Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Derrick Brooks, Singletary Randy Gradishar and Jack freaking Lambert. That's not a lot. I certainly wouldn't put any money on it no matter what odds I got. But is he likely to be a top ten ILB again? Yeah. Is he likely to improve a lot, especially with Star playing in front of him again? Yeah. He's young, smart and athletic and the team believes in him. And yeah it's wildly unlikely Edmunds gets DPOY. Except for Aaron Donald and maybe a group of six to ten other guys, it's wildly unlikely anyone else gets DPOY. You may not have noticed but they only give it to one guy out of half the NFL who are eligible. The thread is literally, and quite specifically, about Edmunds being the NFLDPOY in 2021..........an award for regular season achievement. But as I said.....you can add his playoff stats and it still doesn't make him look like anymore of a playmaker at MLB. Since the beginning of 2019....COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS(35 games)..... he has just 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery and 0 forced fumbles. COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS it's been 46 games since the LB with perhaps the biggest reach in the league has forced a fumble. Last season.......COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS(18 games).........he had 89 blitz attempts with just 1 quarterback hurry! He does not make plays. All the rest of the noise you are making does not matter..........you aren't going to win NFL DPOY if you don't make big plays. 2 1
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 I find this thread title hilarious lol
ColoradoBills Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Turk71 said: Just guessing but it probably stems from the fact that he was not good in pass coverage. 115 passer rating when targeted. 4 tds surrendered on 60 targets 12.5 yds per catch 7 yards after catch/rec He was literally one of the worst MLB in the league at pass coverage. So that's probably where that came from. True and I'm hoping he can regain his 2019 pass defense which had a 76.3 passer rating. It's a big year for him this season and everyone knows it. 1
Thurman#1 Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 (edited) On 6/5/2021 at 7:14 AM, BADOLBILZ said: The thread is literally, and quite specifically, about Edmunds being the NFLDPOY in 2021..........an award for regular season achievement. But as I said.....you can add his playoff stats and it still doesn't make him look like anymore of a playmaker at MLB. Since the beginning of 2019....COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS(35 games)..... he has just 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery and 0 forced fumbles. COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS it's been 46 games since the LB with perhaps the biggest reach in the league has forced a fumble. Last season.......COUNTING THE PLAYOFFS(18 games).........he had 89 blitz attempts with just 1 quarterback hurry! He does not make plays. All the rest of the noise you are making does not matter..........you aren't going to win NFL DPOY if you don't make big plays. Yes, the thread is about DPOY. The thread. Remind me, were you replying to the thread? Or were you replying to me? Now, if you were replying to the thread, how come you clicked on "QUOTE" to my post? And if you were replying to me, how come you were trying to convince me about DPOY when I had already said - in the same post you were replying to - that DPOY is wildly unlikely? Either way your reply was clueless and off-target. And factually incorrect, which is why I was laughing. Facts: You were replying to me. And in the same post I'd said that DPOY was wildly unlikely. You didn't have to convince me of that. I was only laughing with BillsfaninSB about your amusing little mistake in facts. And yet, predictably, you felt the need to attempt to wiggle and squirm your way out. So, let's go through it again ... Quick, remind me. Did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble and we're only counting regular season because the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production"? Or did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble"? On 6/3/2021 at 8:08 AM, BADOLBILZ said: The guy with the 7' wingspan hasn't forced a fumble in 42 games. He's never recovered a fumble. Yup. You said he had never recovered a fumble. WRONG!! You said he "hasn't forced a fumble in 42 games." WRONG!! Two complete factual inaccuracies in one very short post. You weren't interested in being careful about facts. You wanted to find absolutely anything bad to say about a player you clearly don't like. And by the way, the way a mature, sensible person handles this by saying something along the lines of, "OK, fair enough, that was a mistake, I missed that, but ..." and continuing on. Well, two mistakes, in your case, but the idea is the same. Instead you try to finagle and justify and squirm your way out of it. It's one way to operate, I guess, but it's a tactic that only makes the reader wince in sadness and understanding. Edited June 6, 2021 by Thurman#1
ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 Reading half of the thread it's clear that Tre Edmunds is one of the most polarizing players on the team. I am in the don't see it camp. Watch any film review of our MLB, it's generally not pretty. Poor angles, missed tackles (over 9% missed tackles on his career), gets lost in the wash, makes no impact plays. He is a guy who tallies a lot of assisted tackles, dances around in zone defense. I call him 'dancing bear' in pass defense. Looking at his physical abilities, you would think he should be an impact player, but three seasons in he is not. He allowed a 113 pass rating and over 500 yards against last season, his worst of his career. Maybe he was injured, maybe the changes to D-line affected him, but he looked completely lost in pass defense. No impact plays to speak of. People like to point to the goal line tackle, and it was a good play, but the type of play a highly drafted MLB should make. The bar for a guy picked 16th and the 'QB of the Defense' is set very low for this guy for some reason. I hope he pans out to be a play maker, I just don't see it. 2 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 I think Edmunds will get better as a player but I don’t think he is a top LB yet. Saying that I don’t think the Bills should pay him as a top 5 LB. We already made that mini mistake with Tre White who I feel hovers around the top 10 CB’s. Tre White is very good but he is not a shut down CB, he does his job well within the scheme of the defense as Edmunds does.
NewEra Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 3 years. 57 missed tackles and 9 TDs given up in pass coverage. 57....... Get better Tremaine. You have been blessed physically. Don’t waste gods gift to you 1
Rockinon Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 The amount of negativity toward Tremaine is baffling. The coaches are high on him. He has been to two probowls. He's still very young and still improving his craft. Yes, he took a step back, coming back from a significant injury, but the negative Nancy's are getting kind of annoying. This young man is just getting warmed up in this league and like the coach has said, his best play is ahead of him. I have absolutely no reason to doubt that. None.
NewEra Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, Rockinon said: The amount of negativity toward Tremaine is baffling. The coaches are high on him. He has been to two probowls. He's still very young and still improving his craft. Yes, he took a step back, coming back from a significant injury, but the negative Nancy's are getting kind of annoying. This young man is just getting warmed up in this league and like the coach has said, his best play is ahead of him. I have absolutely no reason to doubt that. None. Watch him play. He’s ok. Just ok. Is often lost in coverage. Often hits the wrong hole. Often misses tackles....57 in 3 years. Yes, he makes some plays and accumulates some tackles. Preston brown once led the NFL in tackles. He sucked. Edmunds has been, at best, the 4th best lb from the 2018 draft imo. I really like the kid...... but let’s be real, his play at LB isn’t what we were hoping for. He is completely underwhelming and devoid of big plays. That’s what my eyes tell me. If he was a 4th rd pick and was looking at a 5M contract I don’t think the talk would be the same. The “pro bowl” talk is nonsense. He’s physical specimen that looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane more often than not. 3
ghostwriter Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 6:55 PM, JohnNord said: Edmunds….I’ll eat my sandal if Edmunds is DPOY Yeah, he has everything you would want in a LB except intelligence and instincts. Hate to sound so cruel about it, but it’s the truth. 2
ghostwriter Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/3/2021 at 11:17 PM, Protocal69 said: Regarding Ed Oliver I feel like he has also been playing out of position. With Star coming back and having another off-season I'm more optimistic regarding Ed Oliver turning the corner than Edmunds right now but they BOTH have something to prove in 2021 I’m not sure how they’ll divvy up the snaps, but I do think Oliver will see quite a bit of time at 1T. I’m sorry to disagree with you. It will be between him and Star. Boogie and Rousseau will see substantial amounts of time at 3T. How the rotation plays out behind these guys I don’t know, but the starting/backup rotation will consist mainly of Oliver, Star, Boogie and Rousseau.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes, the thread is about DPOY. The thread. Remind me, were you replying to the thread? Or were you replying to me? Now, if you were replying to the thread, how come you clicked on "QUOTE" to my post? And if you were replying to me, how come you were trying to convince me about DPOY when I had already said - in the same post you were replying to - that DPOY is wildly unlikely? Either way your reply was clueless and off-target. And factually incorrect, which is why I was laughing. Facts: You were replying to me. And in the same post I'd said that DPOY was wildly unlikely. You didn't have to convince me of that. I was only laughing with BillsfaninSB about your amusing little mistake in facts. And yet, predictably, you felt the need to attempt to wiggle and squirm your way out. So, let's go through it again ... Quick, remind me. Did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble and we're only counting regular season because the NFL DPOY is only based on regular season production"? Or did you say, "He's never recovered a fumble"? Yup. You said he had never recovered a fumble. WRONG!! You said he "hasn't forced a fumble in 42 games." WRONG!! Two complete factual inaccuracies in one very short post. You weren't interested in being careful about facts. You wanted to find absolutely anything bad to say about a player you clearly don't like. And by the way, the way a mature, sensible person handles this by saying something along the lines of, "OK, fair enough, that was a mistake, I missed that, but ..." and continuing on. Well, two mistakes, in your case, but the idea is the same. Instead you try to finagle and justify and squirm your way out of it. It's one way to operate, I guess, but it's a tactic that only makes the reader wince in sadness and understanding. I was only talking about what pertains to the NFL DPOY. Simple as that. I was aware of his lack of impact in the playoffs as well............it's not the first time I've cited his lack of big plays..........they are just not relevant to the DPOY discussion. You were ignorant of the fact that only regular season stats count toward a regular season award like NFL DPOY. That's common knowledge........ignorance is not a defense. College and HS stats don't count toward it either, btw.😘
BADOLBILZ Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/3/2021 at 11:17 PM, Protocal69 said: While Tremaine Edmunds has all the physical ability to be great he has no instinct for the position. Now if you told me he was switching to OLB then we would have a better chance. Regarding Ed Oliver I feel like he has also been playing out of position. With Star coming back and having another off-season I'm more optimistic regarding Ed Oliver turning the corner than Edmunds right now but they BOTH have something to prove in 2021 Agree about Edmunds........he has played far below his talent level at MLB. But Oliver has been mostly used as a 3 tech. He's played *some* 1 tech but not much. One of the common misconceptions on this board is that the Bills always line up with a DT in the 1 tech position. They will go to double 3 techs on obvious passing downs as well and if they play all season with the killer instinct on offense that they displayed AFTER the Arizona game they may find themselves in position to use pass rushers at both DT's more often.
Rockinon Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 43 minutes ago, NewEra said: Watch him play. He’s ok. Just ok. Is often lost in coverage. Often hits the wrong hole. Often misses tackles....57 in 3 years. Yes, he makes some plays and accumulates some tackles. Preston brown once led the NFL in tackles. He sucked. Edmunds has been, at best, the 4th best lb from the 2018 draft imo. I really like the kid...... but let’s be real, his play at LB isn’t what we were hoping for. He is completely underwhelming and devoid of big plays. That’s what my eyes tell me. If he was a 4th rd pick and was looking at a 5M contract I don’t think the talk would be the same. The “pro bowl” talk is nonsense. He’s physical specimen that looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane more often than not. If he's so awful, why has he gone to two probowls? 1
ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rockinon said: If he's so awful, why has he gone to two probowls? Are you confusing 'Pro Bowls' with 'All Pro' selections? The Pro Bowl is not much more than a popularity contest/ name recognition outcome. Getting drafted in the first round will do that for you. All Pros are much more prestigious and IMO carry more weight. The same types of guys that vote for HOF inductions vote for the All Pro. Tyrod Taylor who has many detractors made a 'Pro Bowl'. Edmunds is a guy who has regressed in pass coverage, is inefficient in pass rush, is not aware enough to recover fumbles, doesn't have the tenacity or technique to force fumbles, and has almost a 10% missed tackle rate for his career (steady 9% + each year) and gets trucked by QBs and WRs. He is a tackle accumulator, a third of them are assists. So was Preston Brown. I think guys down on Tre Edmunds want Darius Leonard or Fred Warner production instead of Preston Brown. With Edmunds' athletic tools and draft position he should be able to accomplish that level of play.
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