Critical Race Theory

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So you weren’t actually taught any of these alternative Civil War theories? You simply made up the fact that you weren’t taught about slavery? Oh brother. Carry on! 

The class was a historiography class on the causes of the Civil War 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Back to the thread:

 

 

REMINDER:

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[SoCal Deek]

18 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

The class was a historiography class on the causes of the Civil War 

 

 

And this class taught you what exactly? Because I’m pretty darn sure the rest of us learned about slavery and the Civil War back in high school. Maybe you skipped that year? 

[Tiberius]

40 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And this class taught you what exactly? Because I’m pretty darn sure the rest of us learned about slavery and the Civil War back in high school. Maybe you skipped that year? 

The history of the history of the war. Different eras had different interpretations that were stressed. 
 

You are darn sure about what? 

54 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

and that culminated in the civil war being about slavery and slavery alone?  

 

 

Primary cause was obviously slavery

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

The history of the history of the war. Different eras had different interpretations that were stressed. 
 

You are darn sure about what? 

Primary cause was obviously slavery

And that supposed evolution of interpretation taught you what exactly? I’m no spring chicken anymore and even I was there when they mentioned slavery when teaching about the civil war. I’m really curious how old you are? 

[B-Man]

 

 

DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HISTORY: 

 

Hulu’s 1619 Project Docuseries Peddles False History.

 

The first episode paints an enslaver, plantation master, and Royalist autocrat as a leading and even celebrated agent of emancipation.

 

 

In the past three years, the Times has grappled with the fallout from Hannah-Jones' assertion, including the revelation that it ignored its own fact-checker's warnings against printing the charge. The Times tempered its language to apply to "some of" the colonists, only to see it reasserted by Hannah-Jones in her public commentaries. Later, a related line about the Project's goal of replacing 1776 with a "true founding" of 1619 disappeared without notice from the Times' website. The newspaper found itself in a balancing act between its writer's uncompromising positions and the need to preserve credibility as it made a Pulitzer Prize bid with the series. But Hannah-Jones was not ready to abandon the claim at the center of her lead essay, and the first episode of the Hulu series makes that abundantly clear.

 

https://reason.com/2023/01/31/hulus-1619-project-docuseries-peddles-false-history/

[B-Man]

 

 

Must be brainwashed,  right?

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

On 2/1/2023 at 2:11 PM, B-Man said:

DON’T KNOW MUCH

🎯

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

The overbearing tone of this propaganda of this is fine, it is just what you would expect.

 

BUT the LIES are not what you can overlook.

 

You don't get to make up a fake history to push your viewpoint.

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

18 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

The overbearing tone of this propaganda of this is fine, it is just what you would expect.

 

BUT the LIES are not what you can overlook.

 

You don't get to make up a fake history to push your viewpoint.

 

 

 

SMH, Disney

https://cslabornews.org/2022/05/11/disney/#:~:text=Disney’s products available in stores are made in,these young children tend to be very dangerous.

 

Disney’s products available in stores are made in sweatshops using child labor. Disney breaches local labor laws, oppresses Chinese workers, forces staff to do three times the amount of work they should, and drives them to suicide. These sweatshops and labor spots for these young children tend to be very dangerous.

 

Won't even get into how they union bust and pay the very lowest wages possible for the majority of their employees.  average wages of 13K a year.

 

https://www.jwj.org/disney-world-is-anything-but-magical-for-its-employees#:~:text=Given Disney’s profits%2C it may come as a,Disney paying as little as %2413%2C000 per year.

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

43 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

The overbearing tone of this propaganda of this is fine, it is just what you would expect.

 

BUT the LIES are not what you can overlook.

 

You don't get to make up a fake history to push your viewpoint.

 

 

 

Give me an example of specific lies, please 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

JEFF JACOBY:  We’ve been paying reparations for almost sixty years.  

 

That’s what LBJ’s War on Poverty was supposed to be,

 

https://jeffjacoby.com/26733/the-deeply-flawed-campaign-for-racial-reparations

 

 

 

FTA:

 

To everything there is a season, as sages from Ecclesiastes to the Byrds have observed, and the time for slavery reparations was when those who suffered enslavement could still be compensated. It is tragic that Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman's 1865 order to distribute 40-acre plots of land to the formerly enslaved was never implemented across the South. The collapse of Reconstruction a decade later in the face of massive Southern resistance is one of the bitterest calamities of American history. But no white American living today bears any responsibility for the cruelties of that era. No Black American living today suffered those cruelties.

 

For exactly that reason, the great civil rights leader Bayard Rustin — the organizer of the 1963 March on Washington and a close adviser to Martin Luther King, Jr. — rejected calls for reparations as "ridiculous." He regarded Forman's demand for $500 million as demeaning. "If my great-grandfather picked cotton for 50 years, then he may deserve some money," Rustin said, "but he's dead and gone and nobody owes me anything."

 

 

https://jeffjacoby.com/26733/the-deeply-flawed-campaign-for-racial-reparations

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Give me an example of specific lies, please 

 

 

No.

 

There are multiple lies there, open your eyes

 

You have already proven your disregard for the truth.

 

I will waste no time on your posts other than to laugh and point out the flaws

 

 

(Tibs response:  So you can't point out anything)    LOL

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

JEFF JACOBY:  We’ve been paying reparations for almost sixty years.  

 

That’s what LBJ’s War on Poverty was supposed to be,

 

https://jeffjacoby.com/26733/the-deeply-flawed-campaign-for-racial-reparations

 

 

 

FTA:

 

To everything there is a season, as sages from Ecclesiastes to the Byrds have observed, and the time for slavery reparations was when those who suffered enslavement could still be compensated. It is tragic that Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman's 1865 order to distribute 40-acre plots of land to the formerly enslaved was never implemented across the South. The collapse of Reconstruction a decade later in the face of massive Southern resistance is one of the bitterest calamities of American history. But no white American living today bears any responsibility for the cruelties of that era. No Black American living today suffered those cruelties.

 

For exactly that reason, the great civil rights leader Bayard Rustin — the organizer of the 1963 March on Washington and a close adviser to Martin Luther King, Jr. — rejected calls for reparations as "ridiculous." He regarded Forman's demand for $500 million as demeaning. "If my great-grandfather picked cotton for 50 years, then he may deserve some money," Rustin said, "but he's dead and gone and nobody owes me anything."

 

 

https://jeffjacoby.com/26733/the-deeply-flawed-campaign-for-racial-reparations

 

 

No.

 

There are multiple lies there, open your eyes

 

You have already proven your disregard for the truth.

 

I will waste no time on your posts other than to laugh and point out the flaws

 

 

(Tibs response:  So you can't point out anything)    LOL

So you can't point out anything! 

 

You forgot the exclamation point! 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

You know what ?

 

I'm in a good mood today, why not indulge Tibsy's childishness.

 

 

There are several problems here, beginning with the fact that it’s just incredibly divisive and harmful to teach children eight generations removed from slavery that they are oppressed victims due to the suffering of their ancestors.

 

Anyone who watches that clip and is impressionable is going to walk away thinking they have a right to be angry at and punish those that don’t look like them. Personally, I think that’s a pretty screwed-up thing to teach children.

 

It’s not just the top-level result of such content that is the issue, though. It’s also that many of the claims being made are just flatly untrue.

 

It is a grossly inaccurate simplification of American history to teach kids that “Slaves built this country.” Slavery contributed to parts of the early economy in the United States, but it did not build the country into what it is today (or even what it was a hundred years ago).

 

Why? Because slavery is an evil, atrophying institution that stunts the growth of a nation instead of accelerating it. In the case of the United States, it locked generations of slaves and non-slaves alike in abject poverty. Slaves were obviously not paid while their forced labor then crushed the market for the labor of non-slaves. Compounding the situation, because most slaves weren’t allowed to be educated and the vast majority of non-slaves at the time were so poor they couldn’t afford to be, generations of advancement were lost across the board.

 

Slavery was not good. It had no redeeming qualities. It did not “build this country.” Instead, those who perpetrated it mired the country in place for decades for the benefit of a very select few. It wasn’t until after the Civil War and the abolition of slavery that the United States actually began its march to global dominance beginning with the industrial revolution.

 

Lastly, even if one wants to ignore everything I’ve just written, the “Slaves built this country” line also suffers from a math problem. There were a little over three million slaves in the United States in 1850 (the last pre-war census taken). In comparison. there were 23 million Americans in total.

 

Non-slave-owning adults made up the vast majority of that number and almost all of them worked hard labor jobs in relative squalor, with the largest populations of people residing in non-slave states. In other words, they also “built this country,” and it does not downplay slavery to admit that context.

 

It is cut-and-paste Critical Race Theory, straight out of the ridiculous and false “1619 Project,” to teach children that slavery was the deciding factor in America’s success and that because of that, those who had no part in it are actually part of a systemic conspiracy of oppression.

 

It is a cynical attempt at personal gain by some in modern society that actually ends up glorifying a grotesque institution. If that’s what Disney wants to promote, then parents should vote with their wallets. Letting kids be kids is apparently not a priority for The Mouse.

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/02/06/new-disney-cartoon-on-slavery-may-be-the-wokest-thing-ive-ever-seen-n699242

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

37 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

You know what ?

 

I'm in a good mood today, why not indulge Tibsy's childishness.

 

 

It is a grossly inaccurate simplification of American history to teach kids that “Slaves built this country.” Slavery contributed to parts of the early economy in the United States, but it did not build the country into what it is today (or even what it was a hundred years ago).

 

Why? Because slavery is an evil, atrophying institution that stunts the growth of a nation instead of accelerating it. In the case of the United States, it locked generations of slaves and non-slaves alike in abject poverty. Slaves were obviously not paid while their forced labor then crushed the market for the labor of non-slaves. Compounding the situation, because most slaves weren’t allowed to be educated and the vast majority of non-slaves at the time were so poor they couldn’t afford to be, generations of advancement were lost across the board. 

 

 

.

I'd like to handle this in parts because you make a lot of interesting points. First, you are childish, not me. I can write for myself and not just cut and paste. So there's your insult back, 

 

That is a simplification to say that, but cotton was the most profitable part of the economy leading up to the war---but our section of the country was catching up fast with the grain trade through Buffalo from the Old North West. I love the part you provided about how bad slavery was for whites and blacks. So true, just a degrading system 

 

It should be added that racism kept poor whites poor by giving them a sense that though poor, at least they had it better than blacks who had almost no chance of advancement. Racism was used to divide the poor 

 

[Tiberius]

46 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Slavery was not good. It had no redeeming qualities. It did not “build this country.” Instead, those who perpetrated it mired the country in place for decades for the benefit of a very select few. It wasn’t until after the Civil War and the abolition of slavery that the United States actually began its march to global dominance beginning with the industrial revolution.

 

 

 

.

Not completely true. The opening of the Erie Canal and other advances--steamboats, railroads, and many others inventions--started the nation towards industrialization, look up Market Revolution. Buffalo had over 500 manufacturing concerns by 1860 

[Tiberius]

Slavery is not good...

 

https://qz.com/1273998/for-10-years-students-from-texas-have-been-using-a-history-textbook-that-says-not-all-slaves-were-unhappy

 

That needs to be taught, not this nonsense that there was a good side to slavery. Remember, the south used to preach that slavery was a blessing of god 

57 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Lastly, even if one wants to ignore everything I’ve just written, the “Slaves built this country” line also suffers from a math problem. There were a little over three million slaves in the United States in 1850 (the last pre-war census taken). In comparison. there were 23 million Americans in total.

 

Non-slave-owning adults made up the vast majority of that number and almost all of them worked hard labor jobs in relative squalor, with the largest populations of people residing in non-slave states. In other words, they also “built this country,” and it does not downplay slavery to admit that context.

 

It is cut-and-paste Critical Race Theory, straight out of the ridiculous and false “1619 Project,” to teach children that slavery was the deciding factor in America’s success and that because of that, those who had no part in it are actually part of a systemic conspiracy of oppression.

 

It is a cynical attempt at personal gain by some in modern society that actually ends up glorifying a grotesque institution. If that’s what Disney wants to promote, then parents should vote with their wallets. Letting kids be kids is apparently not a priority for The Mouse.

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/02/06/new-disney-cartoon-on-slavery-may-be-the-wokest-thing-ive-ever-seen-n699242

 

 

.

That's good and all, but apply numbers of slaves to states like South Carolina and Mississippi, both states had a majority of people there enslaved. Those states led the south out of the Union. Did slaves build South Carolina? Good argument can be made there. Same with the rest of the deep south. 

 

Did a pro-slavery racist minority  cause our worst war in American history? Yup 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

So no rational response? 

 

Interesting, and telling 

Just now, Chris farley said:

Found this old link to a news article from Fredrick Douglas coming down to Elmira NY, to stump for  Republican James A. Garfield

 

Now of days that speech where he stated.  "that now the rights of colored man had been given him in their full measure, he should take every means to demonstrate himself worthy of them" would be considered hate speech or racist. 

 

https://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/twin-tiers-roots/2016/02/04/elmira-history-frederick-douglass-visited-city-many-times/79749492/

 

https://marktwainstudies.com/douglasselmiraadvertiser/

Premature. Blacks slowly had their rights taken away from them as the 19th century wore on. Blacks were elected to congress and at the state level for a few decades, then came Jim Crow. Plessy did not happen until 1896 and that case set a precedence that was followed all through the south and infected the north as well