SoCal Deek Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 This camera issue has a lot of moving parts. It’s a lot more complicated than you guys are making it.
SectionC3 Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: So you believe a teacher who has received tenure should be able to whatever they want in their classroom? Your point is not a good reason not to have cameras. Hoax. I never said that. Teach within applicable curriculum guidelines? Yes. Criminal? No. If you feel like going to work with a camera on you as you itch your junk all day, go for it. I’m not part of big brother state, and monitoring teachers via video as they work (without, say, reasonable suspicion of criminality) is not appropriate. 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Accountability is a dirty word in the public school system. As a matter of fact it’s a dirty word in the whole public sector. Hoax. Spend some time in city schools. By and large, those teachers are grossly underpaid for the nonsense with which they must deal every day. If you’re saying that many parents and students are not accountable, then I completely agree with you. It’s not just a city thing—it’s everywhere.
Orlando Buffalo Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Hoax. I never said that. Teach within applicable curriculum guidelines? Yes. Criminal? No. If you feel like going to work with a camera on you as you itch your junk all day, go for it. I’m not part of big brother state, and monitoring teachers via video as they work (without, say, reasonable suspicion of criminality) is not appropriate. Your explanation here has nothing to do with tenure, so why did you mention it?
Westside Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Your explanation here has nothing to do with tenure, so why did you mention it? Because he’s a partisan clown.
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Hoax. Spend some time in city schools. By and large, those teachers are grossly underpaid for the nonsense with which they must deal every day. If you’re saying that many parents and students are not accountable, then I completely agree with you. It’s not just a city thing—it’s everywhere. Hoax? What the ***** are you talking about? I mention accountability (which you quoted) and you come back with "teachers are grossly underpaid!!" Now if that is in response to my laughing at your point that our education system is lagging behind other countries is due to poverty? The poverty level of the students should have no bearing on how much is spent on those students. As a matter of fact we pretty much lead the world on how much is spent on each student. So this brings me back to the accountability factor. Where is all that money going if it's not going to the teachers? Government sucks. So the only ones that should be held accountable with regard to educating our students are parents and students? The teachers and DOE have no accountability?? Yup Deek was right when he said you're all over the place.
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Westside said: Because he’s a partisan clown. No he's not partisan in my mind. He's a troll who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Now I'd be cool with that if he made points worth countering but he really sucks at this and his arguments either absolutely wrong or full of really big holes. I really hope he's not a litigator. 1
Westside Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 Just now, Chef Jim said: No he's not partisan in my mind. He's a troll who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Now I'd be cool with that if he made points worth countering but he really sucks at this and his arguments either absolutely wrong or full of really big holes. I really hope he's not a litigator. You’re probably right, though I’ve never seen him post anything positive that isn’t a left wing talking point. On everything else I agree with.
SectionC3 Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 39 minutes ago, Westside said: Because he’s a partisan clown. Hoax. I don’t like clowns. They’re creepy. 17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: No he's not partisan in my mind. He's a troll who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Now I'd be cool with that if he made points worth countering but he really sucks at this and his arguments either absolutely wrong or full of really big holes. I really hope he's not a litigator. You spend way too much time thinking about me. It’s a little weird. I’d like to say I’m flattered, but … it’s just weird. 1
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: You spend way too much time thinking about me. It’s a little weird. I’d like to say I’m flattered, but … it’s just weird. I spend time thinking about you? Who responded to who's post here first? You seriously suck at this. Here try this. It has pictures so it may be right up your alley. https://www.wikihow-fun.com/Be-a-Troll
Beach Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 about 6 years ago, i when i was an elementary teacher...i walk past the cafeteria with a table of kids having a fit. they accused a kid of stealing a piece of cheese. i move the cheese thief to a "quiet table" and move along. the next day the grandma of cheese thief shows up and starts screaming at me about "her grandson isnt a thief, i have no right to believe 6 kids over his word, blah blah." i suggest we check the cameras, but then she says that isnt needed because it isnt that serious. but i insist, the cameras shows the cheese being sloten and eaten. thanks cameras! 1
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, Beach said: about 6 years ago, i when i was an elementary teacher...i walk past the cafeteria with a table of kids having a fit. they accused a kid of stealing a piece of cheese. i move the cheese thief to a "quiet table" and move along. the next day the grandma of cheese thief shows up and starts screaming at me about "her grandson isnt a thief, i have no right to believe 6 kids over his word, blah blah." i suggest we check the cameras, but then she says that isnt needed because it isnt that serious. but i insist, the cameras shows the cheese being sloten and eaten. thanks cameras! Gramma: He didn't do it!! You: Yes he did. We have definitive proof. See this video Gramm: Yeah but it isn't that serious If that happened back when we were kids dad would have showed up PISSED! Not at the school at us! 3
SectionC3 Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 51 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: I spend time thinking about you? Who responded to who's post here first? You seriously suck at this. Here try this. It has pictures so it may be right up your alley. https://www.wikihow-fun.com/Be-a-Troll Hoax. There you go thinking about me again. 39 minutes ago, Beach said: about 6 years ago, i when i was an elementary teacher...i walk past the cafeteria with a table of kids having a fit. they accused a kid of stealing a piece of cheese. i move the cheese thief to a "quiet table" and move along. the next day the grandma of cheese thief shows up and starts screaming at me about "her grandson isnt a thief, i have no right to believe 6 kids over his word, blah blah." i suggest we check the cameras, but then she says that isnt needed because it isnt that serious. but i insist, the cameras shows the cheese being sloten and eaten. thanks cameras! I’ll take “who moved my cheese” for $200. It actually is kind of an interesting story. I would have like to have seen grandma’s reaction when confronted with the video of the heist. And I feel badly for you for having to deal with knuckleheads like that. Nobody who puts up with grandma litigating nonsense like that makes enough money.
Beach Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Hoax. There you go thinking about me again. I’ll take “who moved my cheese” for $200. It actually is kind of an interesting story. I would have like to have seen grandma’s reaction when confronted with the video of the heist. And I feel badly for you for having to deal with knuckleheads like that. Nobody who puts up with grandma litigating nonsense like that makes enough money. i always feel kinda weird when people say teachers dont make enough $. i agree there are some amazing teachers and they wont be paid for their skill. i knew how much a teacher made when i went to college. i decided that was good enough for me since we really only work about 190 days a year. a few years ago i changed my mind about the $ and left teaching and coaching to do my own business. i still love working with young people so i will sub teach once in awhile. Edited February 16, 2022 by Beach 1
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Hoax. There you go thinking about me again. Thinking of you? No. Responding to your responses to my posts yes? Ok ok I do think of you. I think of you as a troll and someone who, because of his profession, should be much better at debate and critical thinking. You suck at both. Carry on counselor. Don't you have an ambulance to chase or something??
SectionC3 Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Beach said: i always feel kinda weird when people say teachers dont make enough $. i agree there are some amazing teachers and they wont be paid for their skill. i knew how much a teacher made when i went to college. i decided that was good enough for me since we really only work about 190 days a year. a few years ago i changed my mind about the $ and left teaching and coaching to do my own business. i still love working with young people so i will sub teach once in awhile. I don’t feel weird about it. I’ve dabbled in the business here and there. It’s hard. I struggle with the idea that education is this hugely important and hugely expensive investment in our future, and we entice to it talent willing to work for, in many cases around here, a whopping $16/hour to start. I appreciate that the benefits are good, and that there is ample time off. But we might have much better luck getting really good talent if we paid a bit more. Now, if someone wants to say that it’s absurd that, in the Buffalo area, we have dozens of administrators who earn nearly as much as the governor, I will agree with them all day long. That aspect of the pay structure is outrageous. 3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Thinking of you? No. Responding to your responses to my posts yes? Ok ok I do think of you. I think of you as a troll and someone who, because of his profession, should be much better at debate and critical thinking. You suck at both. Carry on counselor. Don't you have an ambulance to chase or something?? Duly noted. And stop thinking about me. It’s starting to get even weirder.
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Duly noted. And stop thinking about me. It’s starting to get even weirder. So when I respond to your posts it's weird. When you respond to mine it's...........??
Beach Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I don’t feel weird about it. I’ve dabbled in the business here and there. It’s hard. I struggle with the idea that education is this hugely important and hugely expensive investment in our future, and we entice to it talent willing to work for, in many cases around here, a whopping $16/hour to start. I appreciate that the benefits are good, and that there is ample time off. But we might have much better luck getting really good talent if we paid a bit more. Now, if someone wants to say that it’s absurd that, in the Buffalo area, we have dozens of administrators who earn nearly as much as the governor, I will agree with them all day long. That aspect of the pay structure is outrageous. i agree with alot of what you say here. however, there are so many bad teachers, and their jobs are safe. interestingly, to me, the great teachers actually work less hard. they tend to have great systems and some sort of "it" factor and the class seems to run itself.
SoCal Deek Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I don’t feel weird about it. I’ve dabbled in the business here and there. It’s hard. I struggle with the idea that education is this hugely important and hugely expensive investment in our future, and we entice to it talent willing to work for, in many cases around here, a whopping $16/hour to start. I appreciate that the benefits are good, and that there is ample time off. But we might have much better luck getting really good talent if we paid a bit more. Now, if someone wants to say that it’s absurd that, in the Buffalo area, we have dozens of administrators who earn nearly as much as the governor, I will agree with them all day long. That aspect of the pay structure is outrageous. There's a lot to 'unpack' there. (I hate that phrase but it seems to fit.) This is a really complex issues and varies from state to state. My wife was a full-time educator in California and was very well paid....including a pension, a short work year, and work day. As I said, it varies from state to state. If you want teachers to be paid more in most states you have to increase your State Income Tax. None of this however has ANYTHING to do with cameras in classrooms. No matter what the pay scale, teachers are college educated professionals. They are not long shore-men (no offense intended). The public should be able to expect a minimal amount of professionalism from their public educators...and in general they get it. Edited February 16, 2022 by SoCal Deek
SectionC3 Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: There's a lot to 'unpack' there. (I hate that phrase but it seems to fit.) This is a really complex issues and varies from state to state. My wife was a full-time educator in California and was very well paid....including a pension, a short work year, and work day. As I said, it varies from state to state. If you want teachers to be paid more in most states you have to increase your State Income Tax. None of this however has ANYTHING to do with cameras in classrooms. No matter what the pay scale, teachers are college educated professionals. They are not long shore-men (no offense intended). The public should be able to expect a minimal amount of professionalism from their public educators...and in general they get it. I don’t totally agree with the idea that SIT necessarily has to increase to pay teachers. But the point that the money has to come from somewhere is totally right. To raise pay, we either make cuts to stay neutral or find new “revenue” from additional streams. Theoretically that would be growing the economic pie, but that doesn’t happen too much in a place like New York State. So jacking up SIT might be one way to do it.
SoCal Deek Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 36 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I don’t totally agree with the idea that SIT necessarily has to increase to pay teachers. But the point that the money has to come from somewhere is totally right. To raise pay, we either make cuts to stay neutral or find new “revenue” from additional streams. Theoretically that would be growing the economic pie, but that doesn’t happen too much in a place like New York State. So jacking up SIT might be one way to do it. As I mentioned, local education is not funded the same in every locality, but the basic principle still applies. Not to get too into the weeds here but your push back on cameras is working directly against the very technology that will open the door to significantly increasing the pay scale for educators.
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