Critical Race Theory

[Capco]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

kids are genetically wired to have a mom and dad. Now in today’s world, I don’t think it matters if that mom or dad is lgbtq, or both, but two parents running a household are a multiplier for success IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE!!  

 

Precisely.

 

To take it a step further, I think it's important to have both male and female role models for those children as well (even only children).  And any couple of any mix (or even single parents) can provide those role models through means such as extended family, coaches, etc.  

[Capco]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I don’t know anything at all about CRT but I do know history. Educational levels are so much about culture. I grew up in a house full of books and I did well academically. That’s not a coincidence.  Jews were not allowed to own land in Europe and over several thousand years, across different countries turned to improving their human capital. Maybe discrimination actually helped them—when they were not getting massacred—in a way in the long run. African American history is different. They were not allowed anything up until relatively recently. But they are improving, but with a culture formed under oppressive circumstances I suppose it will take more generations to change. If CRT expla8ns the difference that way, I don’t see the harm. 

 

CRT challenges fundamental assumptions in modern American society, and I suppose you can argue there's something to be said for being contrarian, pushing the boundaries of what we accept as "okay," and challenging the status quo.  So in that sense, at best it's food for thought. 

 

According to Kimberlé Crenshaw, the various proponents of CRT loosely share two common interests:

 

The first is to understand how a regime of white supremacy and its subordination of people of color have been created and maintained in America, and, in particular, to examine the relationship between the social structure and professed ideals such as 'the rule of law' and 'equal protection'. The second is a desire not merely to understand the vexed bond between law and racial power but to change it.

 

- Critical Race Theory: The Key Writings that Formed the Movement

 

Now, on its face that doesn't sound too bad.  "Find structural racism in the law, and get it out of the law."  As I said earlier, it's a noble objective.  

 

But the more I read about some of the specific views that are espoused in search of this goal, the more I just cannot get behind CRT as anything more than something to get you thinking.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Capco said:

 

Precisely.

 

To take it a step further, I think it's important to have both male and female role models for those children as well (even only children).  And any couple of any mix (or even single parents) can provide those role models through means such as extended family, coaches, etc.  

ehh… I think exposure to personality types is more important than gender but I hear the point. ultimately the cultural ideal that a partnership help raise kids better is an iron clad winner. Why isn’t that theory being stressed to our children???

Edited June 19, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Capco]

31 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

ehh… I think exposure to personality types is more important than gender but I hear the point.

 

For sure, and that's essentially what I mean.  Ironically enough what you said is more akin to where I stand, but I was trying to convey it in more "classical" terms to get my point across haha.  But I should give you more credit; you said it perfectly. 

 

33 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

ultimately the cultural ideal that a partnership help raise kids better is an iron clad winner. Why isn’t that theory being stressed to our children???

 

My honest answer is that our culture places the burden of stressing such things to our children upon the family unit itself. 

 

But there's an obvious, inherent problem with that.  If the burden is placed on the family unit to stress the continued idea of the family unit, but the family unit isn't intact in the first place, then that can become a generational issue for certain lineages.  

 

Which then begs the question:  do we want such a theory being stressed to our children via alternative means so that intact family units in one generation can become complete family units in the next generation?  Personally, I think we do want that as a whole society.  And I think the best avenue for that is to encourage such behavior to our children in public schools.

[SoCal Deek]

13 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Hi, Capco! Good to see you here again!

 

Small clarification: critical race theory shouldn’t be lumped in with theories like evolution and general relativity. The latter are essentially natural science “facts” that always pass tests of scientific inquiry within very broad domains. CRT is more of a narration that doesn’t go through the same rigorous analyses as do other ideas from the social sciences.

 

Personally, I’m not a fan of formally teaching CRT for the reason above and also because it ends up being way too divisive, and thus counterproductive, in practice. It should be enough to simply remind children in civics class that the American law and order system is often not applied equally among different races (especially regarding the drug war!), and that we should all aspire to make it so when we become adults…beginning with NOT electing a guy who helped write the 1994 Crime Law…

 

From a political strategy point of view, topics like CRT distract us from the necessary war we need to wage against neoliberalism and American imperialism. The corporate oligarchic establishment loves culture war issues like these because they help prevent the working class on both political sides (whites on the right, minorities on the left) from unifying. A politically united working class, after all, threatens their power structures. Jeff Bezos loves seeing my fellow comrades argue over our proper use of gender pronouns as he continues evading tax payments, purchasing the Fourth Estate, and forcing his Amazon warehouse peons to subsist on food stamps.

Kay

This is spot on....and you know I don’t say that all too often in regards to your posts. Very well put! 

Edited June 19, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Chef Jim]

16 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I don’t know anything at all about CRT 

Then why are you posting in a thread about it?   Go do some learin’ and come back. 

[Capco]

16 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Solid post

 

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kay

This is spot on....and you know I don’t say that all too often in regards to your posts. Very well put! 

 

I'm very pleasantly surprised to see such widespread agreement on what comrade Kay wrote. 

 

These conversations give me hope that we can become less divisive and start getting sh*t done again.  

[Wacka]

I demand that Dyngus Day be made a federal holiday!!!

[Capco]

4 hours ago, Wacka said:

I demand that Dyngus Day be made a federal holiday!!!

 

No one ever notices the Polish-American cohort until it's too late.  

Edited June 20, 2021 by Capco

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, Capco said:

 

No one ever notices the Polish-American cohort until it's too late.  

It’s exactly the same with the Spanish Inquisition. 

[Tiberius]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:27 PM, Capco said:

 

CRT challenges fundamental assumptions in modern American society, and I suppose you can argue there's something to be said for being contrarian, pushing the boundaries of what we accept as "okay," and challenging the status quo.  So in that sense, at best it's food for thought. 

 

According to Kimberlé Crenshaw, the various proponents of CRT loosely share two common interests:

 

The first is to understand how a regime of white supremacy and its subordination of people of color have been created and maintained in America, and, in particular, to examine the relationship between the social structure and professed ideals such as 'the rule of law' and 'equal protection'. The second is a desire not merely to understand the vexed bond between law and racial power but to change it.

 

- Critical Race Theory: The Key Writings that Formed the Movement

 

Now, on its face that doesn't sound too bad.  "Find structural racism in the law, and get it out of the law."  As I said earlier, it's a noble objective.  

 

But the more I read about some of the specific views that are espoused in search of this goal, the more I just cannot get behind CRT as anything more than something to get you thinking.  

Yes, that’s all any branch or sub branch of social science can do, is to get us thinking. If it trumps the Lost Cause narrative that the South fought for just reasons, then I’m good with it. 

[Chef Jim]

33 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yes, that’s all any branch or sub branch of social science can do, is to get us thinking. If it trumps the Lost Cause narrative that the South fought for just reasons, then I’m good with it. 

If CRT was being put in schools to get people to think I’m all for it.  But I’m more cynical than that which in my mind is a good thing with regard to WHAT children are taught.  My cynicism points me to the the conclusion that CRT will be used not to get kids to think but to guide them HOW to think. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

If CRT was being put in schools to get people to think I’m all for it.  But I’m more cynical than that which in my mind is a good thing with regard to WHAT children are taught.  My cynicism points me to the the conclusion that CRT will be used not to get kids to think but to guide them HOW to think. 

Just think, this CRT could mobilize all these high schoolers to action! It will literally brain wash them. Let’s face it, high school students all love history. They can easily be manipulated into anything using history as a tool. Look out! They will take over the country with CRT being the thing that gets them hooked on history! 

[Wacka]

They brain washed them into thinking the republicans were responsible for slavery, jim Crow, and separate but equal  instead of the democrats.

[BillStime]

[Tiberius]

31 minutes ago, Wacka said:

They brain washed them into thinking the republicans were responsible for slavery, jim Crow, and separate but equal  instead of the democrats.

Exactly! It was Conservatives! The Southern Conservatives were vicious racists who enforced an anti-freedom agenda for hundreds of years and are still at it 

[unbillievable]

Democrats:

No fraud happened in the election; but we have to stop voter ID laws!

CRT is not being taught in schools: but we have to stop parents from banning it's teaching!

[Westside]

CRT is just another power grab by the extreme left. Who trusts the same system (DOE) who royally screwed up our education system to be in charge of CRT?

Having graduated high school in the 80’s, I distinctly remember learning about slavery and the civil war. I’m all for teaching our history in school, good and bad, but CRT in the hands of the current education system is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Tiberius]

36 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Democrats:

No fraud happened in the election; but we have to stop voter ID laws!

CRT is not being taught in schools: but we have to stop parents from banning it's teaching!

Sore loser 

[Capco]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Yes, that’s all any branch or sub branch of social science can do, is to get us thinking. If it trumps the Lost Cause narrative that the South fought for just reasons, then I’m good with it. 

 

I see what you're saying but it's more nuanced than that.  Different branches of social science can be used as tools that help people directly, like psychology for example (well, psychology isn't exactly a social science but it can be considered one).  

 

And I think you're presenting a false premise when you compare CRT to the Lost Cause narrative.  I've been able to put that sh*t down hard in the past without ever bringing up CRT, or before I even knew of CRT.