Dawson Knox to attend TE University

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Hey!  They said Nixon was finished when he lost the election for governor of California, and he did OK for himself! 😁

[JGMcD2]

13 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I am (genuinely) curious. What growth did you see last year? I posted actual numbers earlier which show that his catch%, total yards, total TDs did not change meaningfully from his rookie to last season.

He played in three less games in 2020 than he did in 2019 so his total yard and total TDs not changing is irrelevant... would love to see the catch% improve (would also love to see the # of targets that were actually catchable) His production per game was actually higher in an offense with more mouths to feed... 

 

In terms of growth... I felt like he became a point of emphasis in the red zone after returning from COVID. He caught 5 TDs in 9 games down the stretch... they found a little bit of a different way to use him and he was pretty effective in that role. I'm not saying he was a world beater... but I don't expect him to be a world beater at this point. He's still unbelievably raw. There are definite signs of growth. 

13 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

He has not been the safe outlet which young QBs like Allen need. TE has been a problem position for the Bills for almost 2 decades now.

Josh's safe outlet is Cole Beasley. I don't really care what position his "safe outlet" is as a young QB... as long as he has one. Cole is that guy. 

 

The TE position being a problem for the Bills for 2 decades is irrelevant. It has no bearing on Knox or this regime... they're attempting to develop a guy in the mold of the most disruptive guys at the position in the game today as a solution to our TE problem... people just are growing impatient because they want Kelce or Kittle overnight. 

13 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

To your high ceiling point, his lack of growth has me questioning that point and his effectiveness has not come across yet.

Not sure I understand this... so because a raw player at a position that takes a very long time as compared to other positions in the NFL to develop hasn't developed quickly in 2 years he doesn't have a high ceiling? 

Edited May 27, 2021 by JGMcD2

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

The TE position being a problem for the Bills for 2 decades is irrelevant. It has no bearing on Knox or this regime... they're attempting to develop a guy in the mold of the most disruptive guys at the position in the game today as a solution to our TE problem... people just are growing impatient because they want Kelce or Kittle overnight. 

 

Agree with all your TE posts.  Bills got 450 yards receiving last year from the TE position.  If that can go up to 650-700 yards it's more than

enough.  The same type of improvement is needed in the RB position both in rushing and receiving.

 

If all that can happen (and it can even with the current players) watch out NFL!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Yes, you're right. The rules do inhibit the ability to wait... but the better teams have a process in which they follow. Just because the rules put a little more pressure on teams doesn't mean you have to panic when every player doesn't follow the expedited timeline that the rules force upon you. 

 

I'd like to hear a bit more about what you see as the process the good teams follow, given what we both agree is the expedited timeline forced by the rules.

 

Beane and McDermott don't seem like the panic-y types to me, but it seems to me that McDermott gave a pretty clear message in an interview that Knox was not meeting his expectations (after he came off the Covid-19 list - maybe after the AZ game)?  Beane, too, said that Knox had come on a bit the 2nd half of the season but words to the effect "we never got to where teams said we've got to stop their TE from going off"

 

Quote

The fans seem to be panicking whereas the front office seems to be perfectly fine with Dawson Knox as our main TE option and they've supplemented him with some talent to compete with as they do at every position. 

 

I wouldn't say they're "perfectly fine", or they wouldn't have made a push for Olsen last season or been linked enough to an Ertz trade that I believe there was some interest there. 

With limited cap, I think it's also fair to say that upgrading at TE was down a ways on their shopping list.

 

Last year going in, it was already clear that Kroft was not going to be a legit challenger to start at TE IMO.  Knox was the best on the roster, and had the friendship/rappore with Allen beside.

 

This year, I think Hollister is a legit contender to start.  He was on a NE team that went to 2 Superbowls; he knows the level of preparation and effort that takes.  He saw significant playing time for Seattle - similar number of targets to Knox, better catch % and fewer drops.   He can block.  And he has that connection with Allen.

 

Quote

I wasn't referring to you... I speak in blanket statements. 

 

Well, "Everyone else" (but you) is expected to include...everyone else?  Perhaps put a lighter blanket on for summer.

[CuseBill]

What many overlook when discussing TE or any piece of the offense is whether he is a legitimate "threat" to the defense, which demands that the defense devotes coverage accordingly.  Even though he is statistically our 4th or 5th target, objectively speaking, irrespective of whether you like him as a developing TE or not, to date he is not a threat to defenses.  His presence on the field does not command a lot of respect from defenses and does not dictate coverage to the potential benefit of our other weapons.  Kelce, Kittle and Gronk (more so in his prime) are TE's who are threats and can dictate coverage.  So if he is not a threat to be open and consistently catch the ball, he better be one hell of a blocker, which young Dawson is not.

[ExWNYer]

22 hours ago, teef said:

i wonder if he had to listen to the date rape talk like all incoming freshman have to.

 

Was it delivered by this guy? If so, Knox can thank him Week 1...

 

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

38 minutes ago, CuseBill said:

What many overlook when discussing TE or any piece of the offense is whether he is a legitimate "threat" to the defense, which demands that the defense devotes coverage accordingly.  Even though he is statistically our 4th or 5th target, objectively speaking, irrespective of whether you like him as a developing TE or not, to date he is not a threat to defenses.  His presence on the field does not command a lot of respect from defenses and does not dictate coverage to the potential benefit of our other weapons.  Kelce, Kittle and Gronk (more so in his prime) are TE's who are threats and can dictate coverage.  So if he is not a threat to be open and consistently catch the ball, he better be one hell of a blocker, which young Dawson is not.

I agree with what you are saying and think it is an underrated aspect of what Ertz would bring. 

 

Needing to account for the TE position in a meaningful way.  It would open up others more, without significantly changing the target counts.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I agree with what you are saying and think it is an underrated aspect of what Ertz would bring. 

Hey, HEY, HEY!  This thread better not turn into Ertzwatch, Part 3! 🤨

*
😁

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He was only converted from QB to TE with the Bills.    But he had been signed to the PS by Whaley just weeks before Rex got canned so he wasn't a McBeane guy.   Had they signed him they might have had more patience........obviously the Bills TE room has been one of the league's worst since McD arrived.    But with the clusterf*ck that the 2018 offense was it's not surprising that evaluation mistakes were made.      

 

That's not true. He converted his position to Tight End when he was on the Lions practice squad.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

That's not true. He converted his position to Tight End when he was on the Lions practice squad.

 

  

 

He was on the Lions practice squad for 2 days.   

 

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

Here's his first professor

 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was on the Lions practice squad for 2 days.  

 

Doesn't matter, he/she (?) is right.  Thomas made the switch to TE and then the Lions signed him to their PS, at the end of November, 2016.  True the Bills signed him 2 days later, but as a TE.  And despite being originally signed by Whaley, they brought him back in 2017 and 2018.

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Doesn't matter, he/she (?) is right.  Thomas made the switch to TE and then the Lions signed him to their PS, at the end of November, 2016.  True the Bills signed him 2 days later, but as a TE.  And despite being originally signed by Whaley, they brought him back in 2017 and 2018.

 

 

Technically, you're both wrong.    He played TE in HS.

[Doc]

37 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Technically, you're both wrong.    He played TE in HS.

 

Makes sense.

[Dr.Sack]

Always good to be around guys who can catch the ball and run after the catch. 

[billsbackto81]

I'm not expecting Valedictorian status or anything like that. 

 

Heck! Every sports program needs a mascot, right?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This is what I am picturing:

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

22 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Technically, you're both wrong.    He played TE in HS.

 

I just wanted to make the point that it wasn't Buffalo's idea to convert him to TE ultimately saving his career.

 

Speaking of Bills converted tight ends, I can't believe Jason Peters is still playing. Would've been on the Wall and HOFer if the Bills weren't so cheap, but that's a different thread and time.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I just wanted to make the point that it wasn't Buffalo's idea to convert him to TE ultimately saving his career.

 

Speaking of Bills converted tight ends, I can't believe Jason Peters is still playing. Would've been on the Wall and HOFer if the Bills weren't so cheap, but that's a different thread and time.

 

For most of Thomas' NFL career as a QB his team wanted him to move to TE.   He arrived in the NFL as a fatigued prospect.....once perceived as a #1 overall prospect.......but then played so poorly at VA Tech that he was just an athlete a team took a day 3 flyer on.   He refused to convert to TE until it was clear he had run out of chances as a QB.   Better to hopefully get good TE money than kick around the CFL as a QB for much less than NFL veteran minimum.   When he finally relented and the word got out there was almost immediately a bit of a low rollers bidding war to get him.     Whaley being a road scout/blue-chip-recruit-ophile wanted him more.......leading to the hilarious 2 day tenure on the Lions PS.

 

I agree entirely on Jason Peters.    Great player that a very bad organization just mismanaged.    Russ Brandon was totally unqualified to be a GM and Eugene Parker took him to school and Peters ended up getting his old Bills contract ripped to shreds and got PAID.    Bills fans were sore at him for it but it was Brandon's fault.   

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For most of Thomas' NFL career as a QB his team wanted him to move to TE.   He arrived in the NFL as a fatigued prospect.....once perceived as a #1 overall prospect.......but then played so poorly at VA Tech that he was just an athlete a team took a day 3 flyer on.   He refused to convert to TE until it was clear he had run out of chances as a QB.   Better to hopefully get good TE money than kick around the CFL as a QB for much less than NFL veteran minimum.   When he finally relented and the word got out there was almost immediately a bit of a low rollers bidding war to get him.     Whaley being a road scout/blue-chip-recruit-ophile wanted him more.......leading to the hilarious 2 day tenure on the Lions PS.

 

I agree entirely on Jason Peters.    Great player that a very bad organization just mismanaged.    Russ Brandon was totally unqualified to be a GM and Eugene Parker took him to school and Peters ended up getting his old Bills contract ripped to shreds and got PAID.    Bills fans were sore at him for it but it was Brandon's fault.   

 

Great post. Yeah, I never understood why a dude with a background in marketing became a GM. Thank God he was a creep too or else he might still be kicking around the offices.