BarleyNY Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=875 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=917 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=970 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=1002 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=1047 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=1831 https://youtu.be/zRl3W7xWTUs?t=1928 Timestamped times Lotulelei was blocked by more than one offensive lineman vs Cowboys on Thanksgiving. This is with over 12 minutes left in the second quarter. Go back and read my comments on him getting doubled by extra pass blockers - and him not pushing the pocket whether double or single teamed as a pass rusher. So now we’re talking TWO running plays he got doubled on? I did miss the first one you linked because he was turned so his number didn’t face the camera. My bad.
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Go back and read my comments on him getting doubled by extra pass blockers - and him not pushing the pocket whether double or single teamed as a pass rusher. So now we’re talking TWO running plays he got doubled on? I did miss the first one you linked because he was turned so his number didn’t face the camera. My bad. How many DTs do you know that can push the pocket getting blocked by G+C?
Rochesterfan Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Go back and read my comments on him getting doubled by extra pass blockers - and him not pushing the pocket whether double or single teamed as a pass rusher. So now we’re talking TWO running plays he got doubled on? I did miss the first one you linked because he was turned so his number didn’t face the camera. My bad. Why would anyone double team him on passing plays? He is not and has never been a skilled pass rusher. The Bills (Carolina before them) have not seemed to expect him to be effective rushing the passer - that is why he is rotational and taken out on passing downs. The expectation is that he will help occupy blockers on running downs and try to gum up the middle and keep blockers off from Edmunds (or other LBs/safeties filling the gap). On passing downs they would put Jordan Phillips or Alexander inside to rush and take Star out. He is only mildly effective as a 1T, but the difference in YPC is somewhat significant with and without him - so he must do something well. Edited June 3, 2021 by Rochesterfan
BADOLBILZ Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: They tried a few different guys at 1tech this season and what happened was they couldn't win 1v1 or anchor vs a double team and the extra olineman just went downfield and picked up Edmunds. That is the popular imaginary version of what happened, yes. In reality, production-wise not much changed at the 1 tech position. Doubles were still drawn. Doubles didn't turn into combo blocks at a higher rate. Milano and Edmunds were significantly injured for most of the season. Alexander, Phillips and Lawson were also not back from the 2019 team..........and all played more snaps and had greater impacts in 2019 than Star. And the Bills went from a very easy 2019 schedule to playing the most playoff teams of anyone last season.
BarleyNY Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 55 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Why would anyone double team him on passing plays? He is not and has never been a skilled pass rusher. The Bills (Carolina before them) have not seemed to expect him to be effective rushing the passer - that is why he is rotational and taken out on passing downs. The expectation is that he will help occupy blockers on running downs and try to gum up the middle and keep blockers off from Edmunds (or other LBs/safeties filling the gap). On passing downs they would put Jordan Phillips or Alexander inside to rush and take Star out. He is only mildly effective as a 1T, but the difference in YPC is somewhat significant with and without him - so he must do something well. I wondered that myself. My guess is that the Cowboys were working inside out on pass pro and it just happened to work out that way. Doubling a DT with the extra OL would keep the front of the pocket clean which is helpful for any QB, but particularly important for those on the shorter side like Dak. Still, I have no idea why they’d bother doubling Star. Not even his most fervent supporters pretend he’s here to rush the passer.
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I wondered that myself. My guess is that the Cowboys were working inside out on pass pro and it just happened to work out that way. Doubling a DT with the extra OL would keep the front of the pocket clean which is helpful for any QB, but particularly important for those on the shorter side like Dak. Still, I have no idea why they’d bother doubling Star. Not even his most fervent supporters pretend he’s here to rush the passer. Yeah no kidding he comes out on pass downs 🤦♂️
BarleyNY Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: How many DTs do you know that can push the pocket getting blocked by G+C? Show me where he pushes the pocket one on one. Things are shifting all over the place with Star’s fans here. I’ve heard that his job is to take on double teams and keep the LBs clean. He doesn’t. I’ve heard that he was doing great in 2019, but then the same people applaud him for losing a bunch of weight. If he was doing so great, then why is changing his body so much a good thing? That makes no sense. Now are you honestly telling me that he’s here to rush the passer? Sorry. I hope he turns it around this season and he gets back to being the player he was in Carolina, but he hasn’t been close yet and I’ll believe it when I see it. 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Yeah no kidding he comes out on pass downs 🤦♂️ Yeah. But then in that Dallas game post with the clips why was there only one clip of him getting doubled on a run?
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Show me where he pushes the pocket one on one. Things are shifting all over the place with Star’s fans here. I’ve heard that his job is to take on double teams and keep the LBs clean. He doesn’t. I’ve heard that he was doing great in 2019, but then the same people applaud him for losing a bunch of weight. If he was doing so great, then why is changing his body so much a good thing? That makes no sense. Now are you honestly telling me that he’s here to rush the passer? Sorry. I hope he turns it around this season and he gets back to being the player he was in Carolina, but he hasn’t been close yet and I’ll believe it when I see it. Yeah. But then in that Dallas game post with the clips why was there only one clip of him getting doubled on a run? Here- takes on a combo block and pushes C into Prescott. It's the very first snap of the Thanksgiving game we were discussing.
Dopey Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 9:00 AM, BarleyNY said: I rewatched the condensed Cowboys game on Game Pass. 30 minutes to see a nice win wasn’t exactly a chore. Star had two really nice plays that game, including his best as a Bill - the INT of Dak on a screen. He also knocked down a pass at the line. I can see why those plays would lead you to chose that game. But the problem is that the rest of it looked like everything else I’ve seen. He played 35 defensive snaps (46%) and 3 on specials. He was double teamed on run plays only once where he was moved out of his gap and the RB went through it easily. He drew no other doubles on runs, was easily handled by one blocker and made no impact outside of the two plays mentioned. There were several pass plays where a second blocker engaged him, but he never pushed the pocket. It just looked like the extra OL was just picking him up because he had no one else to block. Star had a great and a really good play in that game, but it’s really a reach to say those are indicative of his contribution to the Bills. In two seasons that was his lone INT and he has one other pass defended to go along with two sacks. But again, those are not what he’s supposed to be here for. His job is supposed to be drawing double teams and clogging up the middle. He has failed at that main aspect so far. It looks like he’s got one season left to show he can change that. There's this misnomer that Star automatically draws double teams. It's not like Star says "hey guys, it's Star here, you'd better double team me or I can't play". He takes them on as they come. I keep reading "he's supposed to draw double teams". Tell that to the o coordinator of the other teams. No offense intended, but you took 30 minutes of your life to rewatch a game you saw a couple of years ago?! To prove he's not forcing double teams?! I didn't go back and read it,but I think you asked for a game where ⭐ has made a play, any game. I could find more, but that takes me back to the "that's 30 minutes of my life I won't get back". Not that important.
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