A Lot of Bills stars Were at OTA's But 1 Star Was Not .

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Okay, I’m done 😂

You again have no clue what you’re talking about🤣

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/the-nfl-lineman-workout-get-lean-stay-powerful-20150828/

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

[without a drought]

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

[TBBills]

54 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

Just no contract extension for him since he is our #1. Star on the other hand single handedly lost us the Championship game by eating.

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

 

 

Be that as it may.........it's irrelevant to this branch of the conversation.    Nobody is claiming that every 300# player or person is equally healthy.   Being clinically obese....regardless of how you get there........ puts you in a category that is generally accepted as being at higher risk for a number of health concerns.   It's not more complicated than that.   

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

 

The way McDermott spoke about Diggs suggested he has been in contact and they know where he is at and when he will turn up. The way he spoke about Star indicated that they had no idea when or whether he plans to show up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/30/2021 at 3:01 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nobody is denying that lineman do a lot of strength training.   Muscle is a big part of the equation in creating the force to play on the line.    But muscle mass also burns a lot of calories..........so in order to also maintain a high % of body fat you can't also be doing cardio like players who require great speed, agility and endurance do.   

 

Comparing the training of an interior lineman to that of a CB or WR or RB as you are trying to do is to compare apples and oranges.    And thus, so is comparing their physical conditioning.    

  

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

 

 

300# accountants ride bikes too..........when you live in a place like Miami that is flatter than piss on a platter it's actually less work than walking.

 

 

Feliciano does motocross

 

[Putin]

On 5/30/2021 at 5:20 PM, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

Is Diggs below average player who’s grossly overpaid and been out of football since 2019 ? If yes then cut him 
 

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:59 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

 

 

Nah, his argument wasn't done, it's just that you're not willing to get it. He's right, and on this issue, you're missing the point utterly.

 

Your assumption that the 40 to 60 pounds those NFL guys put on is only "extra blubber" is absolutely pathetically misbegotten.

 

If it were only extra blubber, they'd only get worse athletically as they put it on. Sure, a bunch of it is fat, but a ton of it is also useable muscle, connective tissue and other stuff that makes them stronger and better at what they do. If it weren't, there'd be no use in putting it on.

 

You don't get that, and that's fine. But he's still right.

 

"Ideal body weight," which you keep referring to, is a nebulous and abstract concept. Which is why the best the scientists can do is us the BMI tables. It's why Matt Birk, the new mega-cut fitness model version of Matt Birk, is only 12 pounds away from obese according to those tables. For NFL linemen, "ideal" is extremely large and wildly different for what most people would mean by the term, and in fact wildly different from what the same guys might think after their NFL careers are over.

 

You're probably right that some of them are giving themselves possible future health disorders. But that is probably more so from the contact, the abuse of their joints and so on.

 

There's a reason you can't come up with a single actual figure, any data about this based on NFL athletes rather than those based on ordinary overweight people, a reason all you're doing is bloviating on about "more likely" to be at risk. Yeah, more likely, fair enough. But one percent more likely? Two? Twenty? You haven't a clue. Nor do doctors. Because there is no way to know. 

 

You can keep kidding yourself ... as you are in this thread again and again ... that stats that relate to, as you say, "a 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note" can be used with any relevance for these guys guys who are in a professional athletic development program and are among the best in the world at what they do, but that is indeed, what you are doing ... kidding yourself. 

 

And attempting unsuccessfully to kid others. You've been challenged again and again here to come up with numbers and proof based not on ordinary overweight non-exercisers but on professional athletes such as NFL linemen. Challenged again and again, you've been completely unsuccessful at producing those numbers, and you'll continue to be unsuccessful. They don't exist.

 

Using stats for unfit overweight, enfeebled obese people and applying them to these guys is like applying stats for mice to lions and thinking you're making a point. You obviously aren't willing to get this, but that doesn't make it your numbers less obviously irrelevant.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The way McDermott spoke about Diggs suggested he has been in contact and they know where he is at and when he will turn up. The way he spoke about Star indicated that they had no idea when or whether he plans to show up.

 

 

That's one guess. What was your take on whether he'd been in touch with Sanders? Or the overwhelming majority of the veteran DLs who also missed these?

 

I just saw irritation myself. I think assuming that meant they hadn't talked to him is reading too much into it. Irritation has many possible causes. Including questions being perceived as annoying. Many others as well.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Is Diggs below average player who’s grossly overpaid and been out of football since 2019 ? If yes then cut him 
 

 

 

Right. Good explanation of why we shouldn't cut any of the guys on the roster. None of them are remotely as you described them here.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:21 AM, Mat68 said:

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

 

 

Right.

 

And for guys like these, 300, 310 or 320 is their ideal weight for right now. That's why they're struggling to get there.

 

After their careers, their ideal weight, when they're not regularly being paid millions of dollars to impose their will on other guys who are world-class people-movers, will change quite a bit as they adjust to a new lifestyle.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:16 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

Okay, I’m done 😂

You again have no clue what you’re talking about🤣

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/the-nfl-lineman-workout-get-lean-stay-powerful-20150828/

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/taylor-lewan-trains-like-a-cornerback-to-play-offensive-lineman-0ap2000000344852

 

 

Yup. It's kind of funny to watch people try to make these arguments. You keep asking for figures, they keep giving figures that are irrelevant for world-class ath-a-letes, which these guys unquestionably are.

 

 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 4:46 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Wow.  

 

You cannot use the general population as evidence when comparing professional football players.  How many times does this need to be explained to you?  Why is this so hard for you?

 

You're mocking Hapless for being a "medical expert" but you're telling us you know most big men have underlying conditions?  What is wrong with you?

 

Those are Matt Birk's words, he said it, not me.  He specifically mentions he had to change his diet after he retired because he wasn't going through grueling practices anymore.  How does it not make sense that NFL big men at 300# aren't the same as your general population at the same weight?  How is this so hard for you....my god.

 

 

Yup. Precisely. The guy worked like a dog to get to his ideal weight when a player. Then he did it again afterwards when his ideal weight changed.

 

He wants to argue that most NFL athletes have underlying conditions beyond the weight itself. And there's no clinical evidence of that for these guys. So he throws out generalizations like a cook throwing spaghetti against the wall hoping it'll stick. 

 

But then turning away and refusing to see it bounce off.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's one guess. What was your take on whether he'd been in touch with Sanders? Or the overwhelming majority of the veteran DLs who also missed these?

 

I just saw irritation myself. I think assuming that meant they hadn't talked to him is reading too much into it. Irritation has many possible causes. Including questions being perceived as annoying. Many others as well.

 

He didn't speak specifically on those that I saw. But he did speak specifically on Diggs and on Star and the difference in what he was willing to say was striking. 

[Royale with Cheese]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

 

A focus on fitness in the offseason has helped Dawkins take 653 snaps and counting this year. Dawkins’ preferred cardio workout was riding a bike. He got up to a 52-mile ride.

“I never thought I could do it,” said the 6-foot-5, 320-pounder. “I honestly think it was a different part in my process in the offseason that gave me that little bit of kick for the season. It’s definitely cardio – strength, we’re all strong, we’re all pretty fast – but that cardio is literally what separates you from an elite to a great. That’s what I’m trying to adapt in every part of my game. If you can outlast somebody, then you’re going to be dominant in the fourth quarter.”

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dion-dawkins-giving-the-bills-a-solid-return-on-investment/article_48868902-2ea3-11eb-9c62-eb5d0c7ad3a5.html

 

Remember when our resident medical expert said that big men don't do much cardio?  Completely lied that Matt Birk said he was too exhausted to walk?

So we've got Feliciano saying he does MMA workouts, which I do too and I can tell you it's as tough as you can get.

Dawkins biking up to 52 miles.

Taylor Lewan training with the cornerbacks.

Justin Pugh doing ladder drills, boxing and swimming.

 

Here's 320 lbs Tristan Wirfs jumping out of pool.  How does a fat and sedentary man do this?

 

Of all the fattest big men, Vince Wolfork used to swim A LOT.  Swimming to me is the hardest cardio there is.

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2012/01/06/swimming-proves-beneficial-for-vince-wilfork/

 

Asked how he worked himself into shape and maintained his fitness, Wilfork credits his diligence in the pool, both at home in Florida during the offseason and in Foxboro.

Wilfork swims under water. Push aside the comical visual of the 6-foot-2, 325-plus pounder displacing gallons of water. This is not a joke.

“What I do is I go over and back underwater,” Wilfork said. “Rest 10 seconds and I’m back up under. I do 20 of those. And that completes it. That’s your workout for the day.”

“You getting some good work without having to beat your body up,” said Wilfork, who does the routine every night in the offseason. “I could tell the difference when I was in training camp. In training camp, you normally have those days when you’re like, ‘Man, I’m so tired.’ But I really didn’t have those days. Eventually, you’ll get ’em just because you’re going and going. But it didn’t happen as quick. And then your recovery is a lot faster.”

 

Here's Suh talking about working out in conditions like Miami because it's tougher.  And oh yeah...a lot of cardio.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ndamukong-suh-trains-in-nike-top-secret-training-chamber-to-prep-for-miami-humidity.amp

"Because of personal and business interests in Omaha and Portland, Suh wasn't a full-time participant in Miami's offseason conditioning program. However, he was able to acclimate himself to the sticky South Florida climate through what he calls a "top-secret" training chamber at Nike headquarters in Portland.

"Nike has the technology to simulate the exact temperature and humidity for each day at Dolphins headquarters in Davie, and Suh worked on his cardio through biking and treadmill running.

 

@Thurman#1

 

If he argues now that biking, swimming, boxing/MMA and running aren't cardio workouts, he's trolling at this point.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Dopey]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:21 AM, BUFFALOBART said:

It's more about having a legacy of 'doing nothing'.

That's a false narrative that stat boys come up with. Sounds like you're a stat boy. I trust our coaches over whiny stat boys. Our run defense is better with ⭐ in the trenches. But if you expect big #s from him, you have no clue. "Legacy of doing nothing" what a joke. Smarter guys than you decided stat boys don't know jack.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

A focus on fitness in the offseason has helped Dawkins take 653 snaps and counting this year. Dawkins’ preferred cardio workout was riding a bike. He got up to a 52-mile ride.

“I never thought I could do it,” said the 6-foot-5, 320-pounder. “I honestly think it was a different part in my process in the offseason that gave me that little bit of kick for the season. It’s definitely cardio – strength, we’re all strong, we’re all pretty fast – but that cardio is literally what separates you from an elite to a great. That’s what I’m trying to adapt in every part of my game. If you can outlast somebody, then you’re going to be dominant in the fourth quarter.”

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dion-dawkins-giving-the-bills-a-solid-return-on-investment/article_48868902-2ea3-11eb-9c62-eb5d0c7ad3a5.html

 

Remember when our resident medical expert said that big men don't do much cardio?  Completely lied that Matt Birk said he was too exhausted to walk?

So we've got Feliciano saying he does MMA workouts, which I do too and I can tell you it's as tough as you can get.

Dawkins biking up to 52 miles.

Taylor Lewan training with the cornerbacks.

Justin Pugh doing ladder drills, boxing and swimming.

 

Here's 320 lbs Tristan Wirfs jumping out of pool.  How does a fat and sedentary man do this?

 

Of all the fattest big men, Vince Wolfork used to swim A LOT.  Swimming to me is the hardest cardio there is.

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2012/01/06/swimming-proves-beneficial-for-vince-wilfork/

 

Asked how he worked himself into shape and maintained his fitness, Wilfork credits his diligence in the pool, both at home in Florida during the offseason and in Foxboro.

Wilfork swims under water. Push aside the comical visual of the 6-foot-2, 325-plus pounder displacing gallons of water. This is not a joke.

“What I do is I go over and back underwater,” Wilfork said. “Rest 10 seconds and I’m back up under. I do 20 of those. And that completes it. That’s your workout for the day.”

“You getting some good work without having to beat your body up,” said Wilfork, who does the routine every night in the offseason. “I could tell the difference when I was in training camp. In training camp, you normally have those days when you’re like, ‘Man, I’m so tired.’ But I really didn’t have those days. Eventually, you’ll get ’em just because you’re going and going. But it didn’t happen as quick. And then your recovery is a lot faster.”

 

Here's Suh talking about working out in conditions like Miami because it's tougher.  And oh yeah...a lot of cardio.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ndamukong-suh-trains-in-nike-top-secret-training-chamber-to-prep-for-miami-humidity.amp

"Because of personal and business interests in Omaha and Portland, Suh wasn't a full-time participant in Miami's offseason conditioning program. However, he was able to acclimate himself to the sticky South Florida climate through what he calls a "top-secret" training chamber at Nike headquarters in Portland.

"Nike has the technology to simulate the exact temperature and humidity for each day at Dolphins headquarters in Davie, and Suh worked on his cardio through biking and treadmill running.

 

@Thurman#1

 

If he argues now that biking, swimming, boxing/MMA and running aren't cardio workouts, he's trolling at this point.

 

 

 

I thought you were "done", scarecrow?

 

Nope, just more of the false narrative claiming that I am saying obese people can't be athletic or powerful.   This guy is NOT an NFL lineman:

 

 

Here's the latest from AHA about obesity:

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000973

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

I thought you were "done", scarecrow?

 

Nope, just more of the false narrative claiming that I am saying obese people can't be athletic or powerful.   This guy is NOT an NFL lineman:

 

 

Here's the latest from AHA about obesity:

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000973

 

I got time this morning.

Not just powerful and athletic....cardio too.

You said they aren't in good cardio shape and that in order to remain "fat", have a relatively sedentary lifestyle.  Which is simply untrue.  

Again, you can't compare the general population to professional athletes.  Why is this so hard to understand? Seriously.

 

It is absolute common sense that exercise helps reduce the cardiovascular disease and you ignore that every time.  Professional offensive NFL lineman have a very strong workout regimen.  When you workout more, you heart gets stronger.  A sedentary person is at a much higher risk than a non-sedentary person.  I can't believe this has to be explained to you yet again. 

 

"Sedentary behavior and physical inactivity are among the leading modifiable risk factors worldwide for cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality. The promotion of physical activity and exercise training (ET) leading to improved levels of cardiorespiratory fitness is needed in all age groups, race, and ethnicities and both sexes to prevent many chronic diseases, especially cardiovascular disease. In this state-of-the-art review, we discuss the negative impact of sedentary behavior and physical inactivity, as well as the beneficial effects of physical activity /ET and cardiorespiratory fitness for the prevention of chronic noncommunicable diseases, including cardiovascular disease."

 

Here's you saying they aren't in good cardio shape lol!  Too exhausted to walk lmfao!

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Dopey said:

That's a false narrative that stat boys come up with. Sounds like you're a stat boy. I trust our coaches over whiny stat boys. Our run defense is better with ⭐ in the trenches. But if you expect big #s from him, you have no clue. "Legacy of doing nothing" what a joke. Smarter guys than you decided stat boys don't know jack.

Did you catch that Bills-Browns game replay?  I watched Star in the first half.  He saw one double team in that half - where he got blown into the secondary and the RB ran through his gap.  Beyond that I saw one blocker handle him pretty easily.  He didn’t occupy two blockers, anchor well, keep the LBs clean or make any impact that I saw.  He was a lot better chasing plays laterally than I thought he’d be, but I didn’t see him make much of an impact with that either.

 

I know that’s just one half of one game, but when I’ve watched him in others I’ve seen the same.  If someone wants to point me to a game where he made a big, positive impact I’ll cue it up on GamePass.